Advice on court case

yomamma

Hi,

Just looking for bit of advice. I got arrested August 2013 and just received a letter two days ago to say I have court case in two months from now. Its for drunken disorderly. I didnt do anything mad was just very drunk.

I am just asking if I where to call in to the garda station looking for the guard that arrested me and explained to him I aint a drunken thug, is there anyway of getting the court case stopped and forgot about? Was 7 months ago that I got arrested.

Thanks!

coylemj

yomamma wrote: »

I am just asking if I where to call in to the garda station looking for the guard that arrested me and explained to him I aint a drunken thug, is there anyway of getting the court case stopped and forgot about?

Not a chance, even if the Garda wanted to let you off, once the summons has been issued, it's out of his hands.

What section and act is mentioned on the summons i.e. exactly what law are you alleged to have breached?

Popescu

Unless you have a relative in the Garda Síochána, it's best to consult a solicitor.

yomamma

Hi thanks for reply.

"Intoxicated to such an extent to a reasonable apprehension that you might endanger yourself or any other person in your vicinity"

January 2013 I got arrested for drunken disordly as well. I Went to court march 2013 and got fined 100 euro. I still havnt paid the 100 euro and there been a warrant out for me for nearly a year now. Nothing was said to me when arrested latest.


Just pisses me off. I know it looks bad getting arrested twice in the space of a year but both times I didnt do any harm to anyone and didnt cause any trouble. You see drunker people outside night clubs. Both my times just happend to be earlier in the night so stood out more.

Im currently studying and looking to get work that requires garda vetting so doesnt help my chances!

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

Hi thanks for reply.

"Intoxicated to such an extent to a reasonable apprehension that you might endanger yourself or any other person in your vicinity"

January 2013 I got arrested for drunken disordly as well. I Went to court march 2013 and got fined 100 euro. I still havnt paid the 100 euro and there been a warrant out for me for nearly a year now. Nothing was said to me when arrested latest.


Just pisses me off. I know it looks bad getting arrested twice in the space of a year but both times I didnt do any harm to anyone and didnt cause any trouble. You see drunker people outside night clubs. Both my times just happend to be earlier in the night so stood out more.

Im currently studying and looking to get work that requires garda vetting so doesnt help my chances!

Did you have a solicitor for the first offence, if not why not? Get a solicitor pronto, the everyone was drunk excuse does not work you are the one charged, to be honest 2 such offences in a year should be telling you there is a problem. As your a student I assume you are early 20 again a warning sign. You need to do the following

1 get a solicitor
2 really ask yourself do you have an issue with drink
3 even if you think answer is no to 2 get assessed
4 talk to advisors in college to see will 1 or 2 convictions really effect you
5 if even 1 conviction will effect your chances get advice on appeal of the first conviction
6 don't stick your head in the sand this can have serious long term effects

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Did you have a solicitor for the first offence, if not why not? Get a solicitor pronto, the everyone was drunk excuse does not work you are the one charged, to be honest 2 such offences in a year should be telling you there is a problem. As your a student I assume you are early 20 again a warning sign. You need to do the following

1 get a solicitor
2 really ask yourself do you have an issue with drink
3 even if you think answer is no to 2 get assessed
4 talk to advisors in college to see will 1 or 2 convictions really effect you
5 if even 1 conviction will effect your chances get advice on appeal of the first conviction
6 don't stick your head in the sand this can have serious long term effects

Hey

I probably drink 2 times a month. Ive no drink problem. (Trust me I know what addiction is, Ive been to rehab for gambling addiction)

Anyway, I had a solicitor for last offence. He was rubbish. If I had of spoken for myself Id say I would have got off it. I had no previous convictions, Im 24 years old. The garda statement in the course said I had no previous convictions and that I didnt cause any resistance to guards. ( Was basically just buckled, walking side to side etc on grafton street about 11pm...)

As previously said I got 100 euro fine for last court case and never paid it. What you think outcome of this will be? Also ow would I find a decent free aid solicitor?

Thanks

kjbsrah1

Pay the €100 on the outstanding warrant otherwise you will also have a prison term on your record. Go into your local Garda Station with the €100 and get it out of the way. The warrant may currently be out of date, but rest assured, now that its known you have an upcoming court date, the warrant will be renewed before a Judge and the Gardaí will then be ready to lodge you in prison. Every penal warrant is issued with a default of however many days the Judge states when it is issued - payment of X amount of money with X days in default. That means that if X amount of money is not paid then the offender is to be lodged in a named prison for X number of days.

So if you don't want a prison sentence on your record (albeit maybe only a few days) get it paid. Particularly if you are concerned about it affecting your course. Not to mention getting a visa to travel to the states, australia, work in any number of jobs where garda vetting is required.....

kjbsrah1

Free legal aid is authorised by the judge on the day of court. Can't see free legal aid being granted in a simple case like this. But its up to the judge on the day. You will have to provide proof of your earnings / income and outcome to the court. Not just say something on the day and hope for the best - they require proof.

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

Hey

I probably drink 2 times a month. Ive no drink problem. (Trust me I know what addiction is, Ive been to rehab for gambling addiction)

Anyway, I had a solicitor for last offence. He was rubbish. If I had of spoken for myself Id say I would have got off it. I had no previous convictions, Im 24 years old. The garda statement in the course said I had no previous convictions and that I didnt cause any resistance to guards. ( Was basically just buckled, walking side to side etc on grafton street about 11pm...)

As previously said I got 100 euro fine for last court case and never paid it. What you think outcome of this will be? Also ow would I find a decent free aid solicitor?

Thanks

I did not use the word addiction I used the word issue which it is a fact drink has caused you an issue or a problem. Very different thing to addiction a person who drinks once a month can have a drink problem if it causes problems in his life. I'm a regular drinker in my 40's I have never been arrested relating to drink.

No one can tell the outcome, you may get legal aid solicitor but I doubt it very much. But if convicted an appeal should in such cases be taken. A good solicitor knows what works with what judge and if an appeal should get a good result.

yomamma

Ye I should get the 100 euro paid off soon so. I never intended to pay it as I dont think I deserved it what so ever. Even my solicitor at time was socked as was my first time ever in court and I didnt do any harm to anyone.


My last court case I didnt know anything about court cases and knowing I didnt do anything badly wrong I just showed up on the day. A solicitor then came over to me and asked me if I had a court case. I said ye so he offered me assistance. I accepted it. He was useless and I ended up with 100 euro Fine.

Is it advisable to talk for myself in court to the judge?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

I did not use the word addiction I used the word issue which it is a fact drink has caused you an issue or a problem. Very different thing to addiction a person who drinks once a month can have a drink problem if it causes problems in his life. I'm a regular drinker in my 40's I have never been arrested relating to drink.

No one can tell the outcome, you may get legal aid solicitor but I doubt it very much. But if convicted an appeal should in such cases be taken. A good solicitor knows what works with what judge and if an appeal should get a good result.

Point taken. I dont get urges to drink but when I do drink it tends to lead to trouble so it is an issue in my life I suppose.

But like I said for both cases I did absolutely no harm to anyone and didnt resist arrest.

yomamma

kjbsrah1 wrote: »

Pay the €100 on the outstanding warrant otherwise you will also have a prison term on your record. Go into your local Garda Station with the €100 and get it out of the way. The warrant may currently be out of date, but rest assured, now that its known you have an upcoming court date, the warrant will be renewed before a Judge and the Gardaí will then be ready to lodge you in prison. Every penal warrant is issued with a default of however many days the Judge states when it is issued - payment of X amount of money with X days in default. That means that if X amount of money is not paid then the offender is to be lodged in a named prison for X number of days.

So if you don't want a prison sentence on your record (albeit maybe only a few days) get it paid. Particularly if you are concerned about it affecting your course. Not to mention getting a visa to travel to the states, australia, work in any number of jobs where garda vetting is required.....

Ye I should get the 100 euro paid off soon so. I never intended to pay it as I dont think I deserved it what so ever. Even my solicitor at time was socked as was my first time ever in court and I didnt do any harm to anyone.


My last court case I didnt know anything about court cases and knowing I didnt do anything badly wrong I just showed up on the day. A solicitor then came over to me and asked me if I had a court case. I said ye so he offered me assistance. I accepted it. He was useless and I ended up with 100 euro Fine.

Is it advisable to talk for myself in court to the judge?

yomamma

If I had no worries about garda vetting for my career I wouldnt pay the 100 fine. I would go to court next month with no worries. If they arrested me for not paying a fine, Which putting me in jail for such a minor offence and taking up room in prison then I would happily accept. Its the garda vetting that is my main concern


Is it advisable to approach judge without a solicitor and speak on my own behalf? I know if I had of done this for last court case I wouldnt have got 100 eur fine

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

If I had no worries about garda vetting for my career I wouldnt pay the 100 fine. I would go to court next month with no worries. If they arrested me for not paying a fine, Which putting me in jail for such a minor offence and taking up room in prison then I would happily accept. Its the garda vetting that is my main concern


Is it advisable to approach judge without a solicitor and speak on my own behalf? I know if I had of done this for last court case I wouldnt have got 100 eur fine

What are the judges options on conviction. He has only 2 1 small fine which you got the maximum fine is €500, the second option is probation of offenders act or the poor box. Many solicitors won't even bring that up with some judges in the DC hence why the need for appeal.

If you want to risk your career and don't want to take advice then work away. You may very well be correct and you may get off, work away if you want. You sought advice ignore it if you wish.

BTW did your other solicitor advise an appeal. If you are convicted no judge when informed of previous will like the idea that previous fine was not paid.

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

What are the judges options on conviction. He has only 2 1 small fine which you got the maximum fine is €500, the second option is probation of offenders act or the poor box. Many solicitors won't even bring that up with some judges in the DC hence why the need for appeal.

If you want to risk your career and don't want to take advice then work away. You may very well be correct and you may get off, work away if you want. You sought advice ignore it if you wish.

BTW did your other solicitor advise an appeal. If you are convicted no judge when informed of previous will like the idea that previous fine was not paid.

Hi,

I am not ignoring any advice been given here and appreciate it. No he didnt advise an appeal. He was an novice solicitor. He was young and had little experience. Was nice lad but was rubbish to be honest. I had never been to court before so this was all new to me. But looking back on it the 100 euro fine was rediculous for the offence made.

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

Hi,

I am not ignoring any advice been given here and appreciate it. No he didnt advise an appeal. He was an novice solicitor. He was young and had little experience. Was nice lad but was rubbish to be honest. I had never been to court before so this was all new to me. But looking back on it the 100 euro fine was rediculous for the offence made.

Why was it ridiculous, the legislation allows a fine of upto €500. While I accept a probation of offenders act strike out or a donation to the poor box strike out could be given the second one would have cost you at least €100 aswell.

Call into your local DC on a day when cases are being heard, see any solicitor who is getting good results, ask him when able to give you his card, and tell him you will ring his office for an appointment.

Robbo

yomamma wrote: »

But looking back on it the 100 euro fine was rediculous for the offence made.

If you're to make an argument based on proportionality, we need to know how much you spent on sauce that evening. Also what grade and quality of hooch was involved.

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Why was it ridiculous, the legislation allows a fine of upto €500. While I accept a probation of offenders act strike out or a donation to the poor box strike out could be given the second one would have cost you at least €100 aswell.

Call into your local DC on a day when cases are being heard, see any solicitor who is getting good results, ask him when able to give you his card, and tell him you will ring his office for an appointment.

It was rediculous as I had never been in court before. It was my first offence, The garda statement read in court that I caused no trouble in arrest so I didnt think that deserved a 100 euro fine.

Thanks ye that sounds good Idea. How would I check seeing if a solicitor has good results though? Thanks

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

It was rediculous as I had never been in court before. It was my first offence, The garda statement read in court that I caused no trouble in arrest so I didnt think that deserved a 100 euro fine.

Thanks ye that sounds good Idea. How would I check seeing if a solicitor has good results though? Thanks

You sit in court and watch the solicitors a busy Didtrict Court could deal with a 100 plus criminal cases in a day, usually only a few solicitors, just watch to see who pleads and who fights and who gets good results.

Many people for very minor offences get fines for first offences. You did not help yourself in 1 not appealing and 2 not paying the fine. If convicted for the second offence that could stop the judge giving you the benifit of a strike out.

kippy

yomamma wrote: »

It was rediculous as I had never been in court before. It was my first offence, The garda statement read in court that I caused no trouble in arrest so I didnt think that deserved a 100 euro fine.

Thanks ye that sounds good Idea. How would I check seeing if a solicitor has good results though? Thanks

100 quid isn't a large fine tbh, first offence or not.

Time to front up to your issues, whatever they may be and stop blaming others/ the system.

Hire a solicitor.
Make sure you dont fall into the same trap again in future.

coylemj

kippy wrote: »

100 quid isn't a large fine tbh, first offence or not.

Disagree. It was a very big fine for a first offence and with a solicitor there to represent him, however incompetent he might have been. Which suggests to me that the OP isn't revealing all the circumstances of what happened that night.

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

You sit in court and watch the solicitors a busy Didtrict Court could deal with a 100 plus criminal cases in a day, usually only a few solicitors, just watch to see who pleads and who fights and who gets good results.

Many people for very minor offences get fines for first offences. You did not help yourself in 1 not appealing and 2 not paying the fine. If convicted for the second offence that could stop the judge giving you the benifit of a strike out.

Hey, Thanks for all replies.

I know nothing about court cases so bare with me. To me I thought court cases happend every day.When u say go to court days that cases are being heard how do I know what days these are? Thanks.

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

Hey, Thanks for all replies.

I know nothing about court cases so bare with me. To me I thought court cases happend every day.When u say go to court days that cases are being heard how do I know what days these are? Thanks.

Contact your local District Court, in places like Dublin and Cork City there will be criminal District Court sitting every day in larger towns maybe weekly and in smaller areas maybe as little as once a month. This link may give you some info http://courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/34DBDD95D756A6E780256FE8003AD22F?opendocument&l=en

yomamma

coylemj wrote: »

Disagree. It was a very big fine for a first offence and with a solicitor there to represent him, however incompetent he might have been. Which suggests to me that the OP isn't revealing all the circumstances of what happened that night.

I swear on everything I can swear on. I started drinking about 4pm. I was walking up grafton street at about 10pm. I was buckled drunk. I did absolutely no harm to anyone, wasnt shouting, didnt cause any trouble to guards (As was said in a statement in court) Went back to a cell, fell asleep and left early next morning. Why the hell would I hide anything if anything else happend?

Everything I have said in previous posts is exactly what happend. Thats the reason I havnt paid 100 fine. If I done something that deserved it I would have paid it the next day.

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Contact your local District Court, in places like Dublin and Cork City there will be criminal District Court sitting every day in larger towns maybe weekly and in smaller areas maybe as little as once a month. This link may give you some info http://courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/34DBDD95D756A6E780256FE8003AD22F?opendocument&l=en

Thanks man, Appreciate help.



Thanks all for replies.

coylemj

yomamma wrote: »

I swear on everything I can swear on. I started drinking about 4pm. I was walking up grafton street at about 10pm. I was buckled drunk. I did absolutely no harm to anyone, wasnt shouting, didnt cause any trouble to guards (As was said in a statement in court) Went back to a cell, fell asleep and left early next morning. Why the hell would I hide anything if anything else happend?

I'll take your word for it - that solicitor must have been a total idiot and/or the judge was in a bad mood that day.

yomamma wrote: »

Everything I have said in previous posts is exactly what happend. Thats the reason I havnt paid 100 fine. If I done something that deserved it I would have paid it the next day.

If you disagree with a decision of the court you lodge an appeal, not paying the fine isn't the way to do it. If I was you I'd contact the warrants officer in your local station and arrange to pay it - before he comes looking for you.

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

I swear on everything I can swear on. I started drinking about 4pm. I was walking up grafton street at about 10pm. I was buckled drunk. I did absolutely no harm to anyone, wasnt shouting, didnt cause any trouble to guards (As was said in a statement in court) Went back to a cell, fell asleep and left early next morning. Why the hell would I hide anything if anything else happend?

Everything I have said in previous posts is exactly what happend. Thats the reason I havnt paid 100 fine. If I done something that deserved it I would have paid it the next day.

In that bolder statment you admitted the crime (it is a criminal offence)

The section reads,

"
Intoxication in public place.

4.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person to be present in any public place while intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that he might endanger himself or any other person in his vicinity."

You admit to being buckled drunk, your words not mine. All that is required for a conviction is Garda evidence of intoxication, and reasonable aporension that the person could be a danger to himself. Staggering around Dublin can be dangerous.

If you had given any grief there are plenty of other offences they could have thrown at you, but by your own words you are more than likely guilty.


The offences if a person acts the muppet, ie more than just drunk and a danger,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0005.html#sec5

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0006.html#sec6

yomamma

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

In that bolder statment you admitted the crime (it is a criminal offence)

The section reads,

"
Intoxication in public place.

4.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person to be present in any public place while intoxicated to such an extent as would give rise to a reasonable apprehension that he might endanger himself or any other person in his vicinity."

You admit to being buckled drunk, your words not mine. All that is required for a conviction is Garda evidence of intoxication, and reasonable aporension that the person could be a danger to himself. Staggering around Dublin can be dangerous.

If you had given any grief there are plenty of other offences they could have thrown at you, but by your own words you are more than likely guilty.


The offences if a person acts the muppet, ie more than just drunk and a danger,

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0005.html#sec5

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0006.html#sec6

Yes I agree with everything you have said above. I was too drunk and technically I was a potential danger but if that law is for me then it should be the same for every person that u see"absolutely buckled" coming home from a night club. Garda stations and courts would be overcrowded if that the case. Does everyone that gets arrested end up having to go to court or is it the guards decision? Anyway If you go into city centre you see people off their face on drugs and cant walk from A to B. Do all of them end up in court as danger to themselves or others? I dont think so unless they commit a crime.

I honestly did nothing bar being very drunk and walking side to side. Any decent level headed guard with common sense would have brought me back to a cell for the night, had a chat with me next day maybe and put me on my way with no stupid court case. I was honestly shocked when I received a court letter.

Pro Hoc Vice

yomamma wrote: »

Yes I agree with everything you have said above. I was too drunk and technically I was a potential danger but if that law is for me then it should be the same for every person that u see"absolutely buckled" coming home from a night club. Garda stations and courts would be overcrowded if that the case. Does everyone that gets arrested end up having to go to court or is it the guards decision? Anyway If you go into city centre you see people off their face on drugs and cant walk from A to B. Do all of them end up in court as danger to themselves or others? I dont think so unless they commit a crime.

I honestly did nothing bar being very drunk and walking side to side. Any decent level headed guard with common sense would have brought me back to a cell for the night, had a chat with me next day maybe and put me on my way with no stupid court case. I was honestly shocked when I received a court letter.

Gist any DC any day it's doing crime the two largest offence are section 3 drugs (€20 worth of hash or a couple of pills) and section 4 public order. Thousands of such cases the same as yours are brought every year. If I remember a total of 250,000 summonses are issued every year I can imagine how many are section 4. http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/(WebFiles)/87BE463114EF96FF80257BA20033953B/$FILE/Courts%20Service%20Annual%20Report%202012.pdf see page 48for the total public order/assault cases in the DC.

To be honest something brought you to Garda attention, most are fair enough to say well behaved no trouble etc., when the guy was not in reality to give the guy a break. The fact is you committed an offence (according to you) the fact is thousands every year are accused of the same offence, the fact is many are convicted of this offence.

And before you say sure it's no harm to anyone, I know a large number of people who will not walk in certain streets, not because of violence etc. but just because of the number if buckled (your words not mine) people on the streets.

http://www.irishsentencing.ie/en/ISIS/view/DCT/sentences lots of simple section 4 there and the few I looked at all more than €100 fine.

A few I found

"Case Number: 00091
/ 2008
Ref No.:
Keywords: Public Order
Linked Cases:
Offence Sentenced: Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1994
Date of Sentence: 30/04/2009
Comments: Fine €200 with 3 months to pay or 5 days in default.


Case Number: 00060
/ 2008
Ref No.:
Keywords: Public Order
Linked Cases:
Offence Sentenced: Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1994
Date of Sentence: 05/03/2009
Comments: Probation Act applied, contribution of €300 to specified charity. Court was told the accused had apologised twice to the Garda.

Case Number: 00016
/ 2008
Ref No.:
Keywords: Public Order
Linked Cases:
Offence Sentenced: Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1994
Date of Sentence: 19/02/2009
Comments: €125 fine with 1 month to pay or 15 days in default.

Case Number: 00015
/ 2008
Ref No.:
Keywords: Public Order
Linked Cases:
Offence Sentenced: Section 4 of the Public Order Act 1994
Date of Sentence: 17/02/2009
Comments: €200 fine with 3 months to pay or 5 days in default.