Replacing Bulbs

kelbal

I have a couple of small downlighters in the motorhome with 20w bulbs in them, like these......

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Halogen-Light-Bulb-Lamp-G4-20W-12v-1-pack-10-pcs-K-/330481426007?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&hash=item4cf23a5e57

Can I replace them with these....

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2PCS-G4-1-6-4-5W-3500-6500K-3528-LED-Light-Pure-Warm-White-Bulb-Lamp-DC-12V-/150974262053?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item2326c46b25

Can't see why not, just thought I'd check

moodrater

kelbal wrote: »

I have a couple of small downlighters in the motorhome with 20w bulbs in them, like these......

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Halogen-Light-Bulb-Lamp-G4-20W-12v-1-pack-10-pcs-K-/330481426007?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&hash=item4cf23a5e57

Can I replace them with these....

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2PCS-G4-1-6-4-5W-3500-6500K-3528-LED-Light-Pure-Warm-White-Bulb-Lamp-DC-12V-/150974262053?pt=UK_Light_Bulbs&var=&hash=item2326c46b25

Can't see why not, just thought I'd check

Yep, worth asking the dimensions though as some fittings can be tight. And 3500k is not warm white so think flourescent tube colour light. Oh and don't forget being diodes they're polarised so will only work one way - loads of these go in the bin because people put them in the wrong way and think ahhrghh cheap chinese ****e :pac:

Yeah 3500K is kinda horrible. 6500K is ghastly. 2700K is your true tungsten-halogen equivalent but I don't expect to see it for another 3 years. The ones advertised as warm white/tungsten/2700K are usually in the mid 3000K. I've brought them back more times as falsely advertised and nobody's ever called me on it.
I think those are the same as an MR11 fitting.
Actually LEDs in the last 18 months are not polarity specific for the same reason moodrater pointed out. They've got anti-numptyfication diodes. :pac:
Well can't say for those exact ones but the new dichroic style ones definitely do.
Maplins have the same ones no idea what the colour temperature on them is though.


If you want an after market solution try a colour filter.

kelbal

So, the higher the 'K' figure, the more harsh the light is?

Kindov.
K is degrees kelvin the lower the warmer spectrum ie; reds, ambers, yellows. The higher the colder; blues, greens, white.

kelbal

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Kindov.
K is degrees kelvin

Ahh - get ya, studied mr Kelvin in Physics alright, never put 2+2 together to realise that this is what the K meant :rolleyes:

thanks

moodrater

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Yeah 3500K is kinda horrible. 6500K is ghastly. 2700K is your true tungsten-halogen equivalent but I don't expect to see it for another 3 years. The ones advertised as warm white/tungsten/2700K are usually in the mid 3000K. I've brought them back more times as falsely advertised and nobody's ever called me on it.
I think those are the same as an MR11 fitting.
Actually LEDs in the last 18 months are not polarity specific for the same reason moodrater pointed out. They've got anti-numptyfication diodes. :pac:
Well can't say for those exact ones but the new dichroic style ones definitely do.
Maplins have the same ones no idea what the colour temperature on them is though.


If you want an after market solution try a colour filter.

The ac ones aren't polarised because they have rectifier / voltage dropper circuit. Theres nothing in the cheap 12/24v ones cept resistors and leds no magic depolarisation devices. Expensive 12v one probably have a constant current driver to tackle polarity but being a cheapskate I haven't seen them :-p

The problem with the leds isn't so much their colour temperature 3500k in a G9 is great for general lighting. The issue with leds is the colour rendering index, the leds are coated with a remote phosphor loaded resin. Cheap 3500k ones have only a couple of phosphors and you get a massive peak in the blue spectrum, missing cyans large peak in greens and almost nothing in the reds.

The photo of the roses here demonstrates nicely:
http://www.yujiintl.com/high-cri-led-lighting

It's very hard make red with any source unless you're willing to decimate the output. There's just not very much of that spectrum even in tungsten.
I prefer the RGB strip lights myself you can mix them as preferred and also limit the output to suit the battery SOC and stealth requirements. On a 7m run 300mA get's me enough to see what i'm looking for, 1.2A is comfortable. Generally mine are either red or amber everything else is too feminine or crap. The ones coated in resin are best, otherwise you need trunking, they're not very durable.

The Philips MR16 are dual polarity, never opened one.
I'm a cheapskate too, few fell into my toolbox leaving work one day.

moodrater

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's very hard make red with any source unless you're willing to decimate the output. There's just not very much of that spectrum even in tungsten.
I prefer the RGB strip lights myself you can mix them as preferred and also limit the output to suit the battery SOC and stealth requirements. On a 7m run 300mA get's me enough to see what i'm looking for, 1.2A is comfortable. Generally mine are either red or amber everything else is too feminine or crap. The ones coated in resin are best, otherwise you need trunking, they're not very durable.

The Philips MR16 are dual polarity, never opened one.
I'm a cheapskate too, few fell into my toolbox leaving work one day.

If you stick a digital camera or phone right up to the led bulbs you can often see the discrete leds under the phosphor resin. You'll see that the good ones often have discrete red leds to help out at the red end. Not sure why the chinese don't use more red phosphors although my friend suggests that its only in ireland, america and the uk that we have an obsession with what he calls medieval dungeon colour temperature.

You can pretty much guess the colour temperature by looking at the resin. If it looks like lemon sorbet its going to be cold. 2700k is a good egg yolk orange. This shows the contrast between 3000k-7000k http://www.gl-leds.com/flexilbe-led-strip/5050-led-strip-light.html

:rolleyes: Yeah seen a few tone, hue and saturation adjustable LEDs in my day. Usually the same difference between cheese and onion taytos and cheddar cheese and red onion taytos.
Simple test; get a tungsten bulb put it beside a led turn both on and pass your hand under them. If both give you the same skin colour I'll take a bag of 20!

Dungeon lighting? There's a good reason TV, rock and roll & theatre are on 125A three phase supplies, world over.

moodrater

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

:rolleyes: Yeah seen a few tone, hue and saturation adjustable LEDs in my day. Usually the same difference between cheese and onion taytos and cheddar cheese and red onion taytos.
Simple test; get a tungsten bulb put it beside a led turn both on and pass your hand under them. If both give you the same skin colour I'll take a bag of 20!

Dungeon lighting? There's a good reason TV, rock and roll & theatre are on 125A three phase supplies, world over.

TV is 3200k though isn't it which is a lot whiter than the 2700k everyone seems to be looking for at home.

Nothing affordable enough to bag 20 of yet unless you want to get creative with cree/nichia leds heatsinks and power suplies: http://www.leds.de/Search/CRI%2090

Lighting is totally subjective anyway, go from my 5500k workshop light to the 3200k in the kitchen and the kitchen light looks really warm but go from the tv room 2700k to the kitchen 3200k and it looks stark.

Like music scientists and engineers will dedicate their lives to making a perfect facsimile of the analog but joe publics perception of whats acceptable will be eroded by rubbish bulbs and they'll be content with sub standard quality ala mp3. That is unless the EU steps in and mandates a minimum standard then all of a sudden they'll come out of the lab and onto the shelves. In the states you can walk into home depot and pickup a 93CRI cree bulb for $12 thee nothing like that here.

TV's usually 5200°K but from an incandescent or discharge source. Vampire films are about 26000°K. Hollywood was made what is because it's naturally close to the 6000°K range. It's more for the camera than the eye though if you know what I mean.
Think I'll stick to my €3 dichroics style LED's with CTO, and reject re-soldered strip lights for the time being.

Just as relative to how daylight changes due to cloud and angle of attack but that's a gradual and natural gradient. It's a simple principle though to preserve the ratios in the natural environment. eg 75% blue to 20% green and 5% yellow (Sky,earth, sun) for subtle health and psychological reasons. If everything you look at is in tones of blue and green or disproportionate then that makes for an unnatural and uncomfortable environment which in extreme cases can be contributed to depression or just general grumpiness, not that most would ever blame the environmentally friendly, mercury filled CFL wallet savers for this.

I still run incandescents off batteries when I have the charge.

moodrater

Did you get an led specific cto or just regular stuff. The led specific ones are soemthing like 50% light transmission. It would be great if someone would produce a remote phosphor one you could whack on.

The LED specific gels are just re-spec'ed to LED colour temperature comparison. The gels and colours are older than LEDs. I've Lee 206 over the kitchen on a pair of warm whites with c/o relays to a traffo circuit for mains power. They're close but no cigar. A pair of tungsten in the mid, and L135 over the bed which is a nice red/amber.

Some of the circuits are on 2-way switches which pop fuses in the wrong configuration (if the 12v overhead lighting master is on with mains power attached, switch a off and b on), I'd fix it if I was selling but nobody in their right mind would meet my price.

Hard to tell what you need until you see them. You could get a swatch book for free in a stage lighting store if you need a reference.

m8

God dam ye would put anyone off using the cheap ones with all the technical detail.

I used a few of these 1.2w to replace the origional 10w bulbs and the light is perfect I can see all I want to see + the drain on the battery is a lot less. Used to be 4 x10w and now 4x1w. Go for them.:D

I also fitted a 100w solar panel and now use a low powered TV annd sat when ni digital reception and never flattened a battery yet. The panel I purchased in Germany for €79 and fitted myself.

I would not be without it now.

Ah don't mind us! :pac:
Opinions are free round here.

Nice price on the solar.

m8

Yes ir was a good price but they won't ship to Ireland, don't know why.

moodrater

Well yes go for led but if theres a mrs kelbal then I'd try to find a warmer colour although a lot of these chinese sellers have no idea what they're selling so you may end up getting cold anyway:
http://www.ebay.ie/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=g4+%282700k%2C+2800k%2C+3000k%2C+3200k%29&_sop=15

m8

m8 wrote: »

Yes ir was a good price but they won't ship to Ireland, don't know why.

Was it a "local manufacturer" maybe?
They're actually quite easy to assemble if you can solder and seal. €0.30 per watt for cells by the kW. Hard get the right low iron glass but no great loss at that price, an extra row of cells will more than compensate.

moodrater wrote: »

Well yes go for led but if theres a mrs kelbal then I'd try to find a warmer colour ...

Plastic shopping bags are a poor man's gel. Works grand when there's no heat/enough ventilation.

m8

Was it a "local manufacturer" maybe?
They're actually quite easy to assemble if you can solder and seal. €0.30 per watt for cells by the kW. Hard get the right low iron glass but no great loss at that price, an extra row of cells will more than compensate.

Yep I looked at that option but all in all for the price I paid I could not make it as good. Just sorry I did not buy a few whwn I had the chance.

Thomas Edison

Thomas Edison wrote:

To Invent, You Need a Good Imagination and a Pile of Junk

Yeah the sealant is pretty pricey alright. Solar warranties aren't worth a whole pile. Companies don't seem to last more than a few years.

moodrater

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Simple test; get a tungsten bulb put it beside a led turn both on and pass your hand under them. If both give you the same skin colour I'll take a bag of 20!

£600 plus delivery http://www.soraastore.co.uk/products/soraa-vivid

R9 = 95 vs most 'warm white' bulbs r9 = 18

Snap system is such an obvious and neat solution too
http://www.soraastore.co.uk/products/soraa-snap-system

Thanks²

I'll get one for now and see how it fairs the eyeball challenge. I only believe datasheets in relative terms.

moodrater

moodrater wrote: »

Snap system is such an obvious and neat solution too
http://www.soraastore.co.uk/products/soraa-snap-system

One size fits all


Par 16 or Birdie

[Edit:] Oh wait...I was looking at the unit price of the colour correction not the bulbs :eek:
I thought that exchange rate was a smidge high alright....:pac:
Ha I thought gel was expensive :rolleyes:

hrmm I'll see if the price drops in a few years.