The Folly ......Traffic, is it just me ?

Scaldy Ned

I always hit the Folly from the top down first.
What a pain in the arse it's become........What was the reasoning in slowing the flow down so much ?.
Or is it just me

The_Shotz

Scaldy Ned wrote: »

I always hit the Folly from the top down first.
What a pain in the arse it's become........What was the reasoning in slowing the flow down so much ?.
Or is it just me

The folly has become a nightmare since the reduction from two lanes to one.

At peak times the traffic is now often backed up onto Grange hill.

Even off peak times it often gets backed up. The introduction of 100 meter cycle lanes there now only allows for one lane down and up the folly.

I avoid the area now as I have me been stuck there a few times.

Also the amount of cars I have seen doing U turns on the hill to avoid it is crazy.

Brick Session

It seems to me that who ever is responsible for the flow of vehicular traffic in the city has F*CKED things up beyond belief. Try go from Parnell Street to the Bridge, in fact try and drive from the Park Road or any other street into town centre.

The traffic lights outside the Tower Hotel which are on the N25 are now timed to allow 3-4 cars through at a time. Begs the question, did the genius who came up with this idea that is termed traffic management in our City centre ever leave his bedroom?

I know that little strip of road outside City Hall and the Waterford Crytal showrooms is lovely and all that but I don't really want to sit in traffic for almost 30 minutes admiring it.

I wonder what the real cost is on the local economy??

wobbles

This was always going to happen once the new bridge opened. Traffic flow would be greatly reduced to encourage more traffic over the new bridge and out of the city. I dont think we have seen the last of it either and will only get worse as time goes on.

My biggest issue is the location of the roundabout on the quay. They should have moved it to the next road where the entrance to city square car park is. Many times ive been in town on a busy day where that car park is full and causes traffic to back up down past the pedestrian crossing.

shockwave

The biggest cause of traffic around the folly and dumore road there is the school run, theres a huge difference when the schools are on holidays.

cookie.monster

shockwave wrote: »

The biggest cause of traffic around the folly and dumore road there is the school run, theres a huge difference when the schools are on holidays.

yes mammies dropping and collecting there little lovelies literally to the school door!!! would they not think about walking like we all did growing up????? laziness is what it is!!!

kaef

The_Shotz wrote: »

The folly has become a nightmare since the reduction from two lanes to one.

The introduction of 100 meter cycle lanes there now only allows for one lane down and up the folly.

NO.

It's a nightmare since introduction of unnecessary traffic lights on both sides of roundabout (just 20m!). Four cars in the queue, fifth stops in the middle of roundabout and blocks traffic from all four sides. That's the main problem.

btw cycle lane makes no sense for cyclists who turn right from Folly to Ballytruckle Rd.

cookie.monster

kaef wrote: »

NO.

It's a nightmare since introduction of unnecessary traffic lights on both sides of roundabout (just 20m!). Four cars in the queue, fifth stops in the middle of roundabout and blocks traffic from all four sides. That's the main problem.

btw cycle lane makes no sense for cyclists who turn right from Folly to Ballytruckle Rd.

shur the cycle lane ends just past the church goin up the folly, waste of time and money doing that

Red Nissan

I feel you pain ladies and gentlemen of Waterford.

They have gone out of their way to royally screw up Cork City too. Far too much money they have and to be frittering it away like this is a national emergency.

Trick of the Tail

It's well known from past experience that whoever in the city council is responsible for traffic planning in the city, simply hasn't a clue what they're doing.

No idea.

They make stupid decisions which cause problems, then expensive construction and civil engineering has to be redone - often more than once, to correct the mistakes.

It must cost a fortune, but of course no one gets sacked or disciplined. They keep their jobs with their salary increments etc.

In fact the entire traffic policy in Waterford is madness, decided upon by cretins.

nice_very

all to justify the "new bridge" and to try to recoup the money for those who invested in it, City Centre be damned

wmpdd3

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

It's well known from past experience that whoever in the city council is responsible for traffic planning in the city, simply hasn't a clue what they're doing.

No idea.

They make stupid decisions which cause problems, then expensive construction and civil engineering has to be redone - often more than once, to correct the mistakes.

It must cost a fortune, but of course no one gets sacked or disciplined. They keep their jobs with their salary increments etc.

In fact the entire traffic policy in Waterford is madness, decided upon by cretins.

Good point, anyone know if any of the prospective candidates for the european elections were involved in the council decision on the green route?

Deise Vu

About 7 or 8 eight years ago the man in charge of Dublin traffic, Owen Keegan said something along the lines of 'anyone who thinks I am going to speed up traffic in Dublin city centre needs their head examined'. He is now Dublin City Manager with a massive salary, pension and all the perks.

This is the kernel of the problem: the planners want to create 'traffic-free living spaces' in cities where people will wander around, drinking lattes and communing with each other in a perpetually sunny environment. This apparently is achievable only making driving unbearable rather than making alternatives to driving more attractive. The general public, meanwhile, weep in frustration and simply avoid the city centre in droves. Less traffic in city, more space for the planners to park using their free permits - pats on the back and high-fives all round.

Cabaal

wobbles wrote: »

This was always going to happen once the new bridge opened. Traffic flow would be greatly reduced to encourage more traffic over the new bridge and out of the city. I dont think we have seen the last of it either and will only get worse as time goes on.

It isn't just that,
Its also the fact that now traffic has another option finally Waterford can be made more cycle friendly and cycle infrastructure can be put in place to encourage more people to go to work/school/college on bikes. (though I've not seen the changes at the folly yet).

Although for the most part I've never personally found Waterford off putting when it comes to cycling, it is off putting for most people as they feel they and their kids are not safe. This needs to be changed and at the same time motorists need to realise that they have to share the road space with other forms of transport.

However, even before all the more recent changes motor traffic never moved fast from that end of the city into the center or out to WIT/IDA.

Many a time when I lived up near Dunmore road area I'd leave at the same time as cars and I'd make it down the folly and out the cork road cycling to the IDA before the car,

But no these changes won't be the last of it, in years to come Waterford may eventually get the bikes scheme that Dublin has and Galway & Limerick are getting, such a scheme will have a benefit for people commuting in the city.

Trick of the Tail

Going to work/school/college does not often involve traversing the city centre.

The city centre is about shopping. And I can't imagine going shopping on my bike.

Furthermore, many people live outside cycling distance of the city, so they have to drive.

Forgive the pun, but attempting to make the city centre less car-friendly and more bike-friendly is pure and utter folly. As mentioned above, the utopian ideal of people peacefully cycling around in Waterford just doesn't exist.

Annoying the majority of people trying to use their personal transport - cars - and pandering to the minority of cyclists who do nothing for business in the city is total foolishness.

Not to mention the cost of all these cycle lanes etc.


But that's what they're doing...

O Riain

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Going to work/school/college does not often involve traversing the city centre.

The city centre is about shopping. And I can't imagine going shopping on my bike.

Furthermore, many people live outside cycling distance of the city, so they have to drive.

Forgive the pun, but attempting to make the city centre less car-friendly and more bike-friendly is pure and utter folly. As mentioned above, the utopian ideal of people peacefully cycling around in Waterford just doesn't exist.

Annoying the majority of people trying to use their personal transport - cars - and pandering to the minority of cyclists who do nothing for business in the city is total foolishness.

Not to mention the cost of all these cycle lanes etc.


But that's what they're doing...

Who knows maybe in time with this better infrastructure we might see more people cycling into the city centre.

Lets admit it, while cars are convenient
they are noisey and cause pollution. If you car is absolutely necessary then by all means drive into town. If it's not required then it is nice to have the option of cycling safely.

People are always against these things, smoking ban, recycling bins but we will find in the end that these are good things.

Hopefully our public transport system can improve dramatically but im not holding my breath.

Cabaal

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Going to work/school/college does not often involve traversing the city centre.

and yet thats exactly what people use it for,

How many people work on the Cork road and use the folly to get to the Dunmore area? A massive amount, yet they could very easily use the outer ring road to make the same journey.

Forgive the pun, but attempting to make the city centre less car-friendly and more bike-friendly is pure and utter folly. As mentioned above, the utopian ideal of people peacefully cycling around in Waterford just doesn't exist.

This is the same sort of outlook that existed in Dublin prior to the introduction of the Dublin bike scheme, yet its been massively successful.

Not to mention the cost of all these cycle lanes etc.

If cost is the excuse for not doing anything then I guess no works should have taken place on the quays, Waterford also didn't need the bypass...because of the cost :pac:

AdMMM

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

Furthermore, many people live outside cycling distance of the city, so they have to drive.

What would you consider outside cycling distance? My commute is 10k each way in Dublin... takes 30 minutes by bike, or 60 minutes by taxi... or 80 minutes by car.


This is what a 10k radius looks like for Waterford (10k from the outside to the middle point). Looks like it includes most of Waterford to me, so very few people would be outside cycling disatance.

BadCharlie

Cost of cycle lanes in waterford i would think came to very little. Put down a bit of paint and now call it a cycle lane. I cycle to work sometimes but its down to weather and if i need the car during the work or not. My round trip is 18.4km & my cycle time is not much slower then my car.

One of the other guys who works here does a round trip of around 44km by bike & his in his 50's.

So to sum it up, i use the bike or car which ever suits. The little change is good for environment & my health. If i lived far out of the city i would prob cycle in but not as offten. Or i would bring the bike in the back of car... drive to work cycle home. Next day cycle to work and drive home & so on.

BadCharlie

Another thing that could be looked at if you live lets say 30km from waterford city. You cycle 20 or 25km to a park and ride location.

Anyway their are lots of things that could be done. But one thing that should not be done cause it never works, Is build more roads. Time & time again its not enough. Other ways of getting people from A to B should be looked at. And by bike is a very good option.

Its a fantasic way for going to work & getting fit doing it. No longer do you need to spend all that wasted time in the car & then needing to hit the gym on the way home.

Its kind of hard on the inner shops in the town i can understand. For them to keep going, and the way the council want things to work. The shop rates should & would need to drop. Also the shops should also branch into the online market. The days of just opening a shop door and hope that people will come in and buy your items are gone. To surive they need to look at online also.

tonc76

You would swear that the only route from the Cork Road to the Dunmore Road is via the Folly!

Similarly for the route from the Dunmore Road to Newrath/Ferrybank via Newtown Road and the Quays while I'm at it.

There's nothing like a good moan though :rolleyes:

twistables

Personally I think cycle lanes work in warmer dryer countries. However here the don't. Take Spain for example weather is dryer, warmer and not as much wind and the cities I've being to built mainly on the flat all of which are cycle friendly.
Compare to waterford and for me to cycle to work I need to go down johns hill which is a death trap. Not a chance in hell I'd bring my kid cycling down there to go to school, not a chance, if it's raining we are both soaked in work/ school neither of which have changing rooms.
To get home then we have to cycle up johns hill and then grange hill.
Cycle lanes don't work in our climate and location, we need a customised solution to our surroundings as appose taking the best of what works for other cities.
Rant over!

AdMMM

twistables wrote: »

Personally I think cycle lanes work in warmer dryer countries. However here the don't. Take Spain for example weather is dryer, warmer and not as much wind and the cities I've being to built mainly on the flat all of which are cycle friendly.
Compare to waterford and for me to cycle to work I need to go down johns hill which is a death trap. Not a chance in hell I'd bring my kid cycling down there to go to school, not a chance, if it's raining we are both soaked in work/ school neither of which have changing rooms.
To get home then we have to cycle up johns hill and then grange hill.
Cycle lanes don't work in our climate and location, we need a customised solution to our surroundings as appose taking the best of what works for other cities.
Rant over!

Commuters in Ireland only have to put up with on average 12 days of rain (during commuting times) per year. Annual rain fall is also less than that of Amsterdam.

You can easily avoid John's Hill by going down the Folly (on that wide cycle lane there) and go along Ballytruckle Road, would add 30 seconds to your journey time at most because you can fly down the Folly whereas you'd probably be in traffic on John's Hill.

Or if you're living close to Grange Hill, why not just go along the ring road towards the hospital and then into town along the Dunmore Road on the dedicated cycle lane?

It's an extra bit of distance, but you'd probably save time because the road is wide enough for you get to cycle all the backed up traffic.

Cabaal

twistables wrote: »

Personally I think cycle lanes work in warmer dryer countries. However here the don't.

One of the best country's you can see for cycle lanes and very good use of bikes is the Netherlands, this beats anything the likes of Spain have to offer.

While the summer months may be a little better then Ireland the winter isfar far colder then Ireland experiences.
Annual rainfall in Amsterdam is 766mm compared to Dublin with 731mm. So Ireland actually has less rain and yet we use rain as an excuse. Funny though :rolleyes:

There are differences though,
- First off the bikes, vast majority of people there don't pick stupid mountain bikes with no mud guards. They pick proper bikes with mudguards and chain guards

- Mentality of the people, everyone cycles. Young or old, guy in a suit or poor person. It doesn't matter.

Here's an example of a common bike you'll see if you visit:


Of course you don't have to go to the Netherlands to see more people on bikes then you'd see in Ireland, you can go to Belgium or Germany. Both of which experience very cold winters but that doesn't stop people.

Cycle lanes don't work in our climate and location,

nonsense and nothing but an excuse,
I cycled to work for 10 years in Waterford and once you have the proper gear you're fine.

I can count on one hand the times I honestly got seriously soaked, those times were during some seriously bad downpours that even motorists had to slow down in. These are rare.

twistables

I was only using Spain as I have done city breaks there and that's my experience there.
In reference to take the other ring road or dunmore road..... It's all relative to where your destination is. Getting my eight year old up earlier, to cycle longer in traffic that is to be honest quite dangerous at that hour of the morning.
I not going researching rainfall of the cities around Europe at to prove a point suffice each morning I do the school run it can be quite cold, windy or rainy.
As a parent I would not expect my kids to go out in that.
I have cycled to work myself a good few times but gave up because of the near misses I had, people driving while eating there breakfast, woman driving while putting on make up.
I be all for the cycle lane out to tramore and maybe another going to dunmore but in town I don't think they are going to work.

Max Powers

twistables wrote: »

Personally I think cycle lanes work in warmer dryer countries. However here the don't. Take Spain for example weather is dryer, warmer and not as much wind and the cities I've being to built mainly on the flat all of which are cycle friendly.
Compare to waterford and for me to cycle to work I need to go down johns hill which is a death trap. Not a chance in hell I'd bring my kid cycling down there to go to school, not a chance, if it's raining we are both soaked in work/ school neither of which have changing rooms.
To get home then we have to cycle up johns hill and then grange hill.
Cycle lanes don't work in our climate and location, we need a customised solution to our surroundings as appose taking the best of what works for other cities.
Rant over!

To be fair its reasonably safe cycling around Waterford especially with all the bike lanes. what we don't want is cars and especially trucks tearing around everywhere like London (Dublin to lesser extent) where they have had numerous cycle deaths (obviously a lot bigger but HGVs are the big culprit there). They said the smoking ban wouldn't work also and its been the best initiative in Ireland in decades. People just need to give it a chance instead of focusing on the problems in an opportunity.

+ don't see any difference in traffic at Folly, is was always bad around school times, just like Dunmore road and quays at school times. they removed a 100m bit where the lane split in 2. The area is too busy with kids and other pedestrians and cars to have it a rat race with cars changing lanes, in wrong lane cheekily going onto roundabout etc.

wmpdd3

The only place in the world that I ever cycled in a city was the Hague and it was great. Loads of room on ever road, a space at junctions to wait, I felt very safe.

each time it was either freezing in February or slightly wet in September.
I would love to see it as safe in Ireland to cycle especially at school time but I think it would take a generation to give up the cars.