Top ten Irish boxers making waves in Britain

slapbangwallop · 28-03-2014 5:39pm #1

Top ten Irish boxers making waves in Britain.

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/the-top-10-irish-boxers-making-headlines-in-britain

walshb · 29-03-2014 10:03am

Since when is Fury, or Macklin Irish? Sure, they have an Irish connection, but they're British boxers.

I will keep an eye out for Byrne in April. I like him. He's got real passion in the ring.

Big Ears · 29-03-2014 6:35pm

walshb wrote: »

Since when is Fury, or Macklin Irish? Sure, they have an Irish connection, but they're British boxers.

I will keep an eye out for Byrne in April. I like him. He's got real passion in the ring.

Fury is a different argument, but when you're disputing a man with 2 Irish parents, who is an Irish citizen (Holding just an Irish passport) from being Irish it's just a bit silly.

Dick phelan · 29-03-2014 7:17pm

Macklin is Irish i'm not one to claim fighters being Irish because their granddad visited the place, but as Big Ears said he has 2 Irish Parents and Irish citizen and if you ask him what nationality he is Irish is what he will tell you he is a citizen of Ireland and and Irish man in my book.

bono_v · 30-03-2014 2:01pm

walshb wrote: »

Since when is Fury, or Macklin Irish? Sure, they have an Irish connection, but they're British boxers.

I will keep an eye out for Byrne in April. I like him. He's got real passion in the ring.

On behalf of Macklin anyway, that is Quite an ignorant post walshb. And I fully respect most of your posts and opinions.

walshb · 30-03-2014 3:23pm

bono_v wrote: »

On behalf of Macklin anyway, that is Quite an ignorant post walshb. And I fully respect most of your posts and opinions.

I just don't think of him as Irish. English accent, and far as I know he never represented Ireland in amateur boxing. Born in England. Anyway, would you call English people ignorant if they wanted to claim him as English?

Big Ears · 30-03-2014 4:20pm

walshb wrote: »

I just don't think of him as Irish. English accent, and far as I know he never represented Ireland in amateur boxing. Born in England. Anyway, would you call English people ignorant if they wanted to claim him as English?

Well that's another issue, but officially the man's nationality is Irish, and you'll just have to accept that.

Well if representing Ireland in amateur boxing was the criteria then Fury would be Irish.....

slapbangwallop · 30-03-2014 5:38pm

Big Ears wrote: »

Well that's another issue, but officially the man's nationality is Irish, and you'll just have to accept that.

Well if representing Ireland in amateur boxing was the criteria then Fury would be Irish.....

Exactly. Fury boxed for Holy Trinity and represented Ireland twice vs Poland and USA. Winning both.

walshb · 31-03-2014 12:45pm

I will concede that both could/can be claimed as ours. Not denying that. I just don't associate them as Irish as clear as others do. They could both be easily claimed as English as well. Fury more so. Macklin, as pointed out, does have strong Irish ties.

slapbangwallop · 31-03-2014 3:11pm

walshb wrote: »

I will concede that both could/can be claimed as ours. Not denying that. I just don't associate them as Irish as clear as others do. They could both be easily claimed as English as well. Fury more so. Macklin, as pointed out, does have strong Irish ties.

Ask Macklin what his nationality is and the reply will be 'Irish'. Fury's reply may be a little more long winded.

walshb · 31-03-2014 3:37pm

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Ask Macklin what his nationality is and the reply will be 'Irish'. Fury's reply may be a little more long winded.

Was Macklin always like this? I got the feeling that this claim and want to be seen as Irish is a recent thing? I don't know enough about his career to say. Was there a time where he was happy to be seen as British?

FTA69 · 31-03-2014 4:58pm

walshb wrote: »

I will concede that both could/can be claimed as ours. Not denying that. I just don't associate them as Irish as clear as others do. They could both be easily claimed as English as well. Fury more so. Macklin, as pointed out, does have strong Irish ties.

He's an Irish Traveller who lives on a halting site. If you think Pavee people are considered "British" over here you're codding yourself.

magma69 · 31-03-2014 6:36pm

Frampton is probably the best professional boxer to come from this island since Steve Collins. As long as he stays away from Rigondeaux, he can beat anyone at 122.

Fury has huge flaws but his size and toughness in the ring compensate somewhat. He isn't the heir Wladimir, that's for sure. Think he'll be a good top 10 fighter though and he'll be a big star due to his entertainment factor in and out of the ring.

I'm open to correction here but I don't even think Macklin renewed his British boxing licence and has no plans to fight in Britain any time soon and has not for years. Dunno what he's doing on the list tbh.

Andy Lee probably won't have the success many expected, including myself, but it would be great if he landed a fight with Murray in the UK. I'd head over to that for sure.

Burnett was a decorated amateur and I'm excited to see his progress.

FTA69 · 01-04-2014 9:47am

I'm a huge fan of Cummings ever since I've seen him at York Hall where he demolished a rated opponent. He has a very effective compact style and is apparently getting great training in with London super middles like Frank Buglioni. Definitely one to watch as he matures.

slapbangwallop · 01-04-2014 8:33pm

walshb wrote: »

Was Macklin always like this? I got the feeling that this claim and want to be seen as Irish is a recent thing? I don't know enough about his career to say. Was there a time where he was happy to be seen as British?

One of the biggest fallacies going, not just for Macklin.

Why would you say you are Irish and not British? It's bad for business not good as some incorrectly assume.

As for 'is it a new thing' suggestion. Just go on his Facebook and you'll see old photos of Macklin in every Ireland Jersey from 88 onwards.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 01-04-2014 9:21pm

slapbangwallop wrote: »

One of the biggest fallacies going, not just for Macklin.

Why would you say you are Irish and not British? It's bad for business not good as some incorrectly assume.

As for 'is it a new thing' suggestion. Just go on his Facebook and you'll see old photos of Macklin in every Ireland Jersey from 88 onwards.

Not to mention he played minor hurling for tipperary as well.

HeadPig · 02-04-2014 2:53pm

Macklin is English. Coming over to Ireland for the odd summer doesn't make you Irish. I agree he has strong links and his parents are Irish, but he was British born, raised and educated.

He is British first, Irish second, and milking both for money. I'd do the same.

bk2101 · 02-04-2014 6:49pm

HeadPig wrote: »

Macklin is English. Coming over to Ireland for the odd summer doesn't make you Irish. I agree he has strong links and his parents are Irish, but he was British born, raised and educated.

He is British first, Irish second, and milking both for money. I'd do the same.

I don't get this, we're not talking about the difference between being from Dublin or Meath, your nationality isn't just about where you're born, it's at least just as much something you get from your family. Do you think all these people with Irish parents that grow up in England somehow become English patriots? I know my cousins that grew up in England still considered themselves Irish. You're not Irish because you spend your holidays in Ireland, you're Irish because that's where your family's from and that's what you consider yourself.

I don't know Macklin, so I can't know what he really sees himself as. Maybe he doesn't really care about his nationality and maybe it's important to him, but I'd have a much harder time believing he's a proud Englishman than that that he's a proud Irishman.

Besides, you'd have to be an idiot to try to milk the Irish angle for money, if you wanted to make big money you'd pretend to be properly English and a fan of some big football club.

HeadPig · 02-04-2014 7:44pm

bk2101 wrote: »

I don't get this, we're not talking about the difference between being from Dublin or Meath, your nationality isn't just about where you're born, it's at least just as much something you get from your family. Do you think all these people with Irish parents that grow up in England somehow become English patriots? I know my cousins that grew up in England still considered themselves Irish. You're not Irish because you spend your holidays in Ireland, you're Irish because that's where your family's from and that's what you consider yourself.

I don't know Macklin, so I can't know what he really sees himself as. Maybe he doesn't really care about his nationality and maybe it's important to him, but I'd have a much harder time believing he's a proud Englishman than that that he's a proud Irishman.

Besides, you'd have to be an idiot to try to milk the Irish angle for money, if you wanted to make big money you'd pretend to be properly English and a fan of some big football club.

So if my parents come from Switzerland does that make me Swiss, even though I was born and lived my life in Ireland? lol

The Irish angle makes money stateside, where Macklin has fought on St Patrick's day

slapbangwallop · 02-04-2014 9:03pm

HeadPig wrote: »

Macklin is English. Coming over to Ireland for the odd summer doesn't make you Irish. I agree he has strong links and his parents are Irish, but he was British born, raised and educated.

He is British first, Irish second, and milking both for money. I'd do the same.

What extra money is he getting saying he is Irish??

It actually hurts a fighter financially to come out and say you're Irish in that circumstance.

walshb · 02-04-2014 9:08pm

As mentioned being linked to the Irish when in the States has its benefits. That is why many boxers through the years used to change their name to an Irish name. To generate a following. I always felt that Macklin played up his Irish nationality to garner support and following just as much as him being proud to be Irish. I could be wrong. Anyway, for me he is an English boxer.

OAOB · 02-04-2014 9:20pm

Macklin was born and reared in an irish home in an irish community in Birmingham. He's always considered himself irish and he's more proud to be irish than many people who were born here so for me I'd most definitely consider him irish. We'll claim him but so will Britain.
It's a bit like mcilroy in golf

FTA69 · 02-04-2014 11:30pm

So I take it ye think Andy Lee is English as well?

walshb · 03-04-2014 7:30am

FTA69 wrote: »

So I take it ye think Andy Lee is English as well?

I would associate Lee more with Ireland. I believe he lived in England until about 12. Lee represented Ireland on many occasions, won national titles and boxed for Ireland in Athens 2004.

FTA69 · 03-04-2014 8:33am

Born and raised in East London and boxed for Repton until his mid-teens. Surely by that logic he is "English" Walsh? Macklin represented Tipperary in hurling and has unashamedly and unceasedly described himself as Irish. The fact you claim one fella born in England as Irish while dismissing another is simply a glaring hole in your logic.

Identity is a very personal thing and it isn't up to you or anyone else to decide it for someone else. The Irish community over here is fiercely proud of its identity and rightly so. I know people who may have been born in England but have an Irish passport, play Gaelic games and some who have even learned the Irish language. I've also seen plenty of thick eejits over the years attempt to dismiss all of that with the "shure you're not Irish at all" bullsh*t. If me and my old doll moved to China and had a child would that child thus be avowedly Chinese? Of course it wouldn't.

walshb · 03-04-2014 8:38am

FTA69 wrote: »

Born and raised in East London and boxed for Repton until his mid-teens. Surely by that logic he is "English" Walsh? Macklin represented Tipperary in hurling and has unashamedly and unceasedly described himself as Irish. The fact you claim one fella born in England as Irish while dismissing another is simply a glaring hole in your logic.

Identity is a very personal thing and it isn't up to you or anyone else to decide it for someone else. The Irish community over here is fiercely proud of its identity and rightly so. I know people who may have been born in England but have an Irish passport, play Gaelic games and some who have even learned the Irish language. I've also seen plenty of thick eejits over the years attempt to dismiss all of that with the "shure you're not Irish at all" bullsh*t. If me and my old doll moved to China and had a child would that child thus be avowedly Chinese? Of course it wouldn't.

I didn't dismiss him. I am aware of the strong Irish ties. I see him more as an English boxer. That is all. Lee I see more as an Irish boxer. I think folks are being maybe a little too sensitive. Nobody is saying that they dislike or despise or abhor Macklin. I would have no argument whatsoever with English people claiming him as English. Would that bother you, or would you consider that wrong, for English people to claim him as English?

I see Lennox Lewis more as an English fighter than a Canadian. He did box for Canada in Seoul, but born in England and lived there until aged 12 I believe.

If Mackin were to win a world title I would consider that a world title for an Englishman. If Lee were to do it I would consider it a world belt for an Irishman.

FTA69 · 03-04-2014 8:43am

walshb wrote: »

If Mackin were to win a world title I would consider that a world title for an Englishman. If Lee were to do it I would consider it a world belt for an Irishman.

Which is stupid, considering they were BOTH born and raised in England. Your logic doesn't hold up at all.

Who are you to decide Macklin's identity for him? He doesn't consider himself English, none of his family are English but yet you persist in calling him English. That's nonsense walshb, and very disrespectful to the Irish community over here.

If myself and my old doll had a child in Beijing would that child thus be Chinese?

walshb · 03-04-2014 8:58am

FTA69 wrote: »

If myself and my old doll had a child in Beijing would that child thus be Chinese?

I would consider the child Irish/Chinese. Wouldn't look at all Chinese/oriental, though, assuming yourself and your doll aren't Oriental?

I didn't decide Macklin's identity for him.

slapbangwallop · 03-04-2014 4:55pm

walshb wrote: »

As mentioned being linked to the Irish when in the States has its benefits. That is why many boxers through the years used to change their name to an Irish name. To generate a following. I always felt that Macklin played up his Irish nationality to garner support and following just as much as him being proud to be Irish. I could be wrong. Anyway, for me he is an English boxer.

When's the last time someone changed there name to sound Irish?

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 5:48pm

FTA69 wrote: »

So I take it ye think Andy Lee is English as well?

Andy Lee lived in Ireland. Macklin never did. Simple. How in God's name can you claim to be from a country when you never lived there lol

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 5:50pm

slapbangwallop wrote: »

When's the last time someone changed there name to sound Irish?

Ever hear of "Irish" Mickey Ward?

FTA69 · 03-04-2014 5:51pm

HeadPig wrote: »

Andy Lee lived in Ireland. Macklin never did. Simple. How in God's name can you claim to be from a country when you never lived there lol

I was born in Ireland but now I live in England, by your logic I'm entitled to call myself English am I?. I think the fact Macklin played inter county hurling is a pretty big indication of where his loyalties lie. Similarly a nation of people is different from a geographical location, this is basic stuff like.

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 5:57pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I was born in Ireland but now I live in England, by your logic I'm entitled to call myself English am I?. I think the fact Macklin played inter county hurling is a pretty big indication of where his loyalties lie. Similarly a nation of people is different from a geographical location, this is basic stuff like.

What age did you move to england?

GabbyJay · 03-04-2014 5:58pm

If he has an Irish passport and considers himself Irish then who are you to decide that he is wrong? Those two factors are more important than place of birth. Unless you want to claim that Ronan O'Gara is not Irish either?

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 6:10pm

GabbyJay wrote: »

If he has an Irish passport and considers himself Irish then who are you to decide that he is wrong? Those two factors are more important than place of birth. Unless you want to claim that Ronan O'Gara is not Irish either?

No because if you read the thread you would see I said Macklin never lived in Ireland. ROG did

FTA69 · 03-04-2014 8:35pm

HeadPig wrote: »

What age did you move to england?

My teens, same as Lee. Your argument doesn't hold up a shred. Besides, a nation consists of people, not a landmass. My buddy was born and raised in London to parents from Hong Kong. While he speaks English and Is a Londoner, he's still bloody Chinese at the end of the day.

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 8:40pm

FTA69 wrote: »

My teens, same as Lee. Your argument doesn't hold up a shred. Besides, a nation consists of people, not a landmass. My buddy was born and raised in London to parents from Hong Kong. While he speaks English and Is a Londoner, he's still bloody Chinese at the end of the day.

Well if you left in your early teens like Lee, and have English parents like he has Irish parents, then I would have no problem with you calling yourself English.

walshb · 03-04-2014 9:07pm

FTA69 wrote: »

My teens, same as Lee. Your argument doesn't hold up a shred. Besides, a nation consists of people, not a landmass. My buddy was born and raised in London to parents from Hong Kong. While he speaks English and Is a Londoner, he's still bloody Chinese at the end of the day.

That takes into account ethnicity/physical appearance.

Black/White/Latino/Oriental. It's a little different. Irish and English people share ethnicity, or more accurately, physical appearance.

Henno30 · 03-04-2014 9:09pm

Macklin won a Tipp minor hurling championship. That's Irish enough for me.

Front Row: Fourth from Left.

slapbangwallop · 03-04-2014 10:56pm

HeadPig wrote: »

Ever hear of "Irish" Mickey Ward?

Are you being serious or a troll?

HeadPig · 03-04-2014 11:14pm

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Are you being serious or a troll?

You asked about boxers with Irish names. I supplied an example. I don't see what's difficult to understand.

FTA69 · 04-04-2014 10:26am

That takes into account ethnicity/physical appearance.

Black/White/Latino/Oriental. It's a little different. Irish and English people share ethnicity, or more accurately, physical appearance.

He's Chinese because that's his cultural identity, because he speaks Cantonese at home, because that's where his parents are from and that's how he was raised. Because he has many friends in the Chinese community who all share the same identity as him.

It isn't just because he has slanty eyes walshb.

Most of the stupid comments on this thread are obviously made by people who have very little experience with the Irish community in Britain. Identity is something personal and isn't limited to your residence in a certain geographical spot. I see silliness like this all the time over here, usually coming from ignorant dopes exclaiming to anyone who'll listen about "he/she isn't really Irish..." and all of that b*llocks. It's sad that people seek to pigeonhole others into a bracket.

walshb · 04-04-2014 10:32am

FTA69 wrote: »

It isn't just because he has slanty eyes walshb.

.

That is why my post mentioned ethnicity as well as physical appearance. Not really a nice way for you to describe a person of Chinese appearance.

FTA69 · 04-04-2014 10:43am

walshb wrote: »

That is why my post mentioned ethnicity as well as physical appearance. Not really a nice way for you to describe a person of Chinese appearance.

And my point is that your race or skin colour does no more to reinforce your nationality than anything else.

You're coming from the position that someone can claim to be an identity if they're black or Chinese because they don't look like the host population. That's b*llocks to be honest.

walshb · 04-04-2014 11:51am

FTA69 wrote: »

And my point is that your race or skin colour does no more to reinforce your nationality than anything else.

You're coming from the position that someone can claim to be an identity if they're black or Chinese because they don't look like the host population. That's b*llocks to be honest.

I am saying that the Irish physical appearance is very very similar to the English appearance. The language is the same, and we are next door neighbours. That is a little different to a person of Chinese appearance/origin/traits/ethnicity/language/customs ("He's Chinese because that's his cultural identity, because he speaks Cantonese at home, because that's where his parents are from and that's how he was raised. Because he has many friends in the Chinese community who all share the same identity as him) and an English person.

Bottom line: Macklin born and reared and educated in England. Yes, parents are Irish and he came over here at times, Irish citizen (Holding just an Irish passport). I'll meet you half way, English-Irish!;)

2old4dacold · 04-04-2014 6:28pm

from http://tipptatler.ie/2012/03/tipperary-gaa-scene-march-13th/

GOOD LUCK TO MATTHEW MACKLIN

We wish Matthew Macklin the very best of luck for his tilt at the World Middleweight Boxing title against title holder, Sergio Martinez, at Madison Square Garden, New York on St. Patrick’s night. Matthew, born in Birmingham to Irish parents, has strong connections with Ballingarry in South Tipperary. He played hurling with Ballingarry at under 14 and 16. He played for Tipp under 15s in the 1997 Carrigdhoun hurling tournament. He won a South Divisional Minor A hurling championship in 1997 when Ballingarry defeated Mullinahone Gaels (Mullinahone / Grangemockler combination) by 3-11 to 2-13 in a thrilling final which was settled by a last minute Donal Shelly goal. Matthew scored 3 points from play in the final. For boxing fans, the fight will be on Sky Sports at 3am Irish time on Sunday March 18.

also on record saying

Defending the lineal middleweight title in Thurles would be a dream come true for me, probably second only to lining out for Tipp in a Munster final myself!

Top ten Irish boxers making waves in Britain

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