Racing Ironman abroad - am I missing something ?

coppinger

Why no love for the irish iron events (killarney,athlone,groomsport), ????

I am in my third year of racing long, did athlone last year and killarney the year before and I dont get the attraction of racing abroad (other than kona qualification). Most of the irish iron athletes all travel abroad to race, whats up with that. I looked at austria this year and I saw extra money, time off from work, travel, food and accomodation headaches. Does this add to the sense of achievement, having to overcome these hurdles as well as going the 140.6 miles ?.

Athlone as well run last year and killarney was decent for the price too, my priority was finishing the distance as quickly as possible, not really concerned with medals and all that

For me finishing the event consumed enough of my resources without the extra work of racing abroad, what am I missing about the wtc/challenge experience, is it an iron holiday ?

Shedite27

I did a HIM in Skerries last year in a swell that felt like a washing machine, followed by a cycle/run in the driving wind/rain and swore if I ever did the full I'd be off somewhere sunny.

Hence I'm off to Austria this year.

Check back in July for me moaning about the heat in Austria

tunney

coppinger wrote: »

Why no love for the irish iron events (killarney,athlone,groomsport), ????

I am in my third year of racing long, did athlone last year and killarney the year before and I dont get the attraction of racing abroad (other than kona qualification). Most of the irish iron athletes all travel abroad to race, whats up with that. I looked at austria this year and I saw extra money, time off from work, travel, food and accomodation headaches. Does this add to the sense of achievement, having to overcome these hurdles as well as going the 140.6 miles ?.

Athlone as well run last year and killarney was decent for the price too, my priority was finishing the distance as quickly as possible, not really concerned with medals and all that

For me finishing the event consumed enough of my resources without the extra work of racing abroad, what am I missing about the wtc/challenge experience, is it an iron holiday ?

its not the wtc/challenge experience, its not an iron holiday.

Its nice weather, local support (100,000+ in Roth and Frankfurt), its good roads and proven race organisers with a big race feel.

You've never done a big race, experienced the big race feel, seen people *ACTUALLY GET DONE FOR DRAFTING*. The excitement and buzz around a big continental IM is addictive.

coppinger

yeah both years were very quiet along the road, no big race experience, would probably do austria if money was no object.

Very lucky with the weather as well, flat calm swims, 20 degrees last year in athlone during the run , sunburn lines lasted six months.

Never thought about the drafting that could be going on - thanks for that extra bit of paranoia, I'll enjoy thinking about that on the bike for 5 hours this year.:eek:

tunney

coppinger wrote: »

yeah both years were very quiet along the road, no big race experience, would probably do austria if money was no object.

Very lucky with the weather as well, flat calm swims, 20 degrees last year in athlone during the run , sunburn lines lasted six months.

Never thought about the drafting that could be going on - thanks for that extra bit of paranoia, I'll enjoy thinking about that on the bike for 5 hours this year.:eek:

Worth remembering that all irish races are draft legal, little known fact.

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

Worth remembering that all irish races are draft legal, little known fact.

Have you any experience of the Kerry and Athlone IM races?

There is plenty of drafting in continental races, look at the footage on youtube. Only thing is they don't call it drafting, they call it a pace line (I know what a proper pace line is, but riding in big groups it aint). Drafting is not confined to Irish races. Anyhow in the two Irish IM races I've done there were so few cyclists on the road there was no one to draft off apart from the odd tractor.

For me finishing the event consumed enough of my resources without the extra work of racing abroad, what am I missing about the wtc/challenge experience, is it an iron holiday ?

Like Tunney says your missing big crowds (both on the course and spectating) and smooth road surfaces. If you can live without those then an IM is an IM. I'd love to do a big race on the continent, but I can't justify the ridiculous costs involved. I did IMUK in 2010 and it cost about a €1,000. I did Hardman in 2012 and it cost entry fee, two nights B&B and a tank of diesel, about €300 all in.

tunney

griffin100 wrote: »

Have you any experience of the Kerry and Athlone IM races?

There is plenty of drafting in continental races, look at the footage on youtube. Only thing is they don't call it drafting, they call it a pace line (I know what a proper pace line is, but riding in big groups it aint). Drafting is not confined to Irish races. Anyhow in the two Irish IM races I've done there were so few cyclists on the road there was no one to draft off apart from the odd tractor.



Like Tunney says your missing big crowds (both on the course and spectating) and smooth road surfaces. If you can live without those then an IM is an IM. I'd love to do a big race on the continent, but I can't justify the ridiculous costs involved. I did IMUK in 2010 and it cost about a €1,000. I did Hardman in 2012 and it cost entry fee, two nights B&B and a tank of diesel, about €300 all in.

I've more experience of those races than you of the continental races. But hey, you and the OP continue to come to conclusions based on something you have no experience of or knowledge of.

peter kern

tunney wrote: »

Worth remembering that all irish races are draft legal, little known fact.

Unless you race pro, so are all races over a certain amount of entires certainly less drafting in kerry than frankfurt.

peter kern

for most people an ironman distance races have become an adventure holiday with 15 seconds of fame at the finish chute, and there is nothing wrong with that.
but i agree real tough ironman in the old hawaii spirit from 30 years ago would not look for fast surface nice weather crowds they would actually look for the biggest challenge you against yourself.

the great thing is, there is choices and everybody can chose what they like.

coppinger wrote: »

Why no love for the irish iron events (killarney,athlone,groomsport), ????

I am in my third year of racing long, did athlone last year and killarney the year before and I dont get the attraction of racing abroad (other than kona qualification). Most of the irish iron athletes all travel abroad to race, whats up with that. I looked at austria this year and I saw extra money, time off from work, travel, food and accomodation headaches. Does this add to the sense of achievement, having to overcome these hurdles as well as going the 140.6 miles ?.

Athlone as well run last year and killarney was decent for the price too, my priority was finishing the distance as quickly as possible, not really concerned with medals and all that

For me finishing the event consumed enough of my resources without the extra work of racing abroad, what am I missing about the wtc/challenge experience, is it an iron holiday ?

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

I've more experience of those races than you of the continental races.

You've more experience than me of the Irish races, how so? Unless of course you think that having a club mate as a Technical Consultant on one of the Irish races makes you an expert on that race?

But hey, you and the OP continue to come to conclusions based on something you have no experience of or knowledge of.

I suppose when you include your DNF you've done more IM's than me so I bow to your superior knowledge. Anyway, I'm fat and can't do a sub 10hr IM so we all know that means I'm not allowed have an opinion.

Oryx

Big events are there for those who want a big atmosphere, support, teeshirts, catering and just generally a memorable experience. You get to see the miles of bling bikes and pros in action. If it was only about the distance you could just head out some Sunday morning to your local beach and do it on your own. Smaller events are cool for their own reasons: cost, convenience, ease of entry. But its horses for courses. You do what appeals.

peter kern

If its all about the "biggest challenge you can do" then triathlon in all its guises is the wrong thing to do - there are much tougher activities and sports.

i agree
I would say that there is nothing tougher than a 400 meter run race. or the 200 m butterflyin a 50 m pool . but if you want get the best out of yourself every sport is bloody hard. as in each sport over 30 seconds you really reach the absoulute limit in terms of fatique if you do it really 100% .

a 10. 00 hour in kerry gets more respect from me than a 9.40 hour in frankfurt or a 9.30 in roth . ( that are rough estimates and can depend on year on year)
so a 10 in kerry is the bigger challenge for the very same athlete than a 9.30 in roth , thats what i mean by bigger challenge .
in kerry you will swim bike and run alone where in the bigger races at thi s level you will have plenty of people around you which makes it mentally easier .

LaGlisse

peter kern wrote: »

If its all about the "biggest challenge you can do" then triathlon in all its guises is the wrong thing to do - there are much tougher activities and sports.

i agree
I would say that there is nothing tougher than a 400 meter run race. or the 200 m butterflyin a 50 m pool . but if you want get the best out of yourself every sport is bloody hard. as in each sport over 30 seconds you really reach the absoulute limit in terms of fatique if you do it really 100% .

a 10. 00 hour in kerry gets more respect from me than a 9.40 hour in frankfurt or a 9.30 in roth . ( that are rough estimates and can depend on year on year)
so a 10 in kerry is the bigger challenge for the very same athlete than a 9.30 in roth , thats what i mean by bigger challenge .
in kerry you will swim bike and run alone where in the bigger races at thi s level you will have plenty of people around you which makes it mentally easier .

This. People who select races based on minimising the chance of swimming without their wetsuit or avoiding the odd hill are having a laugh calling themselves ironmen

trinewbie

peter kern wrote: »

If its all about the "biggest challenge you can do" then triathlon in all its guises is the wrong thing to do - there are much tougher activities and sports.

i agree
I would say that there is nothing tougher than a 400 meter run race. or the 200 m butterflyin a 50 m pool . but if you want get the best out of yourself every sport is bloody hard. as in each sport over 30 seconds you really reach the absoulute limit in terms of fatique if you do it really 100% .

a 10. 00 hour in kerry gets more respect from me than a 9.40 hour in frankfurt or a 9.30 in roth . ( that are rough estimates and can depend on year on year)
so a 10 in kerry is the bigger challenge for the very same athlete than a 9.30 in roth , thats what i mean by bigger challenge .
in kerry you will swim bike and run alone where in the bigger races at thi s level you will have plenty of people around you which makes it mentally easier .

I have done one (and a bit) Ironman race. Continental verus domestic race is very much deendant on the individual.

Continental races, as previosuly mentioned in this thread give the big race atmosphere and all the organisatinaly prowess that create incredible events.

For all of us on here, its an amature sport. As a competitive (amateur) racer at a contintental race you have the opportunity to race against top amateurs from multiple countries.You get that rush of starting a race with 2000 other and then 5 hours later arriving back to transition, seeing only a handful of bikes there in front of you. The buzz of passing the German Uber bikers as they die slow painful deaths on the run is savage. The biggest draw for compettitve folk is a shot at a kona slot. Are these things worth 500bucks. I think so.

For the non competive its the adventure holiday , the (doable) challenge, and the bragging rights in the pub when you get home( an unfortuntaley for some ,an horrific M-Dot tattoo ) . At an Irish race, you will have a good idea of your finishing position before the gun goes, you battle with teeth chattering roads, unpredictable weather, they are certainly a far more challneging event than a contintental race.You dont get the big race feel, the big fields, the support or the weather, but do you need it? If you are simply after a challeneg then IMO an domestic race fits the bill.

There are far harder events to complete than an Ironman, however racing an Ironman hard is IMO about as tough as an endurance event can get.
Someday Id like to do an Epic domestic race, probably something like celtman in Scotland,a race like that Is more of a life memory than blitzing around a conintental IM race on the hunt for a Kona slot IMO.

On another note you could run an unbelievable norsemsan/celtman style race out of glendalough, with bike heading over the wicklow gap, sallygap, Shay Elliot, slievmann, mount leinster. And the run taking in Scarr, the Spink - But as with most Irish long distance races, youd probably never comfortably hit the criitical mass required to create a long term sustainable race.

tunney

LaGlisse wrote: »

This. People who select races based on minimising the chance of swimming without their wetsuit or avoiding the odd hill are having a laugh calling themselves ironmen

If they call themselves an ironman at all at all the person has bigger issues

griffin100

tunney wrote: »

If they call themselves an ironman at all at all the person has bigger issues

Why bother calling yourself an Ironman when your tattoo can say it all

peter kern

Agree with everything and as i said its great their is a choice for everybody from 50 m sprint swim till runing around the world. flat IM to hilly IM

but i really think we are kidding ourselves when we think longer races are tougher.( sorry for derailing the thread) they focus on different skills.but its not tougher.
doing an oly in sub 19 swim sub 59 bike and sub 34 run is better/tougher than a sub 9 ironman from an athletic point ( if both courses are fast and accurately measured) .
of course for joe on the street marathon sounds so great as they cant really understand it, since most of them never moved for more than 7 k in one go ( a 10 k run they can comprehend ) For them it will be always a bigger achievment than a 29 min 10 k run. But I think anybody that understands a bit about sport would understand that a 29k 10 k run is a higher achievement than a 2.35 h marathon, or doing a decaman.

The recovery time from next weeks duathlon Nat champs and an ironman is about the same for the people that really race it. its a slightly different fatigue level, but I would be much more comfortable racing 3 days after an ironman than 3 days after an oly duathlon.

At the same time for everybody getting off the couch and fighting their inner demons its already a great achievement.

its really all relative.

and for some its harder to go sub 11 in an ironman than for some a sub 8.30.

trinewbie wrote: »

I have done one (and a bit) Ironman race. Continental verus domestic race is very much deendant on the individual.

Continental races, as previosuly mentioned in this thread give the big race atmosphere and all the organisatinaly prowess that create incredible events.

For all of us on here, its an amature sport. As a competitive (amateur) racer at a contintental race you have the opportunity to race against top amateurs from multiple countries.You get that rush of starting a race with 2000 other and then 5 hours later arriving back to transition, seeing only a handful of bikes there in front of you. The buzz of passing the German Uber bikers as they die slow painful deaths on the run is savage. The biggest draw for compettitve folk is a shot at a kona slot. Are these things worth 500bucks. I think so.

For the non competive its the adventure holiday , the (doable) challenge, and the bragging rights in the pub when you get home( an unfortuntaley for some ,an horrific M-Dot tattoo ) . At an Irish race, you will have a good idea of your finishing position before the gun goes, you battle with teeth chattering roads, unpredictable weather, they are certainly a far more challneging event than a contintental race.You dont get the big race feel, the big fields, the support or the weather, but do you need it? If you are simply after a challeneg then IMO an domestic race fits the bill.

There are far harder events to complete than an Ironman, however racing an Ironman hard is IMO about as tough as an endurance event can get.
Someday Id like to do an Epic domestic race, probably something like celtman in Scotland,a race like that Is more of a life memory than blitzing around a conintental IM race on the hunt for a Kona slot IMO.

On another note you could run an unbelievable norsemsan/celtman style race out of glendalough, with bike heading over the wicklow gap, sallygap, Shay Elliot, slievmann, mount leinster. And the run taking in Scarr, the Spink - But as with most Irish long distance races, youd probably never comfortably hit the criitical mass required to create a long term sustainable race.

coppinger

My original post wasnt intended as a "racing in ireland is great and racing abroad is for fools" thread, I honestly asked what the buzz was, so I'll follow up with another question (hypothetical of course)

would you rather

Go 9:15 in austria, finish 3rd in age group, 95th overall and kona qualify

or

Go 9:15 in athlone and win the event.

Personally I would be torn and couldnt decide between the two, Kona is the pinnacle and a major life event, but a win is a win.
So big fish in small pond or small fish in big pond?

BTH

coppinger wrote: »

My original post wasnt intended as a "racing in ireland is great and racing abroad is for fools" thread, I honestly asked what the buzz was, so I'll follow up with another question (hypothetical of course)

would you rather

Go 9:15 in austria, finish 3rd in age group, 95th overall and kona qualify

or

Go 9:15 in athlone and win the event.

Personally I would be torn and couldnt decide between the two, Kona is the pinnacle and a major life event, but a win is a win.
So big fish in small pond or small fish in big pond?

Take Kona out of that equation and you might have a chance. As it stands it won't be remotely close.

Oryx

Wouldn't go back to Austria and I don't fancy the financial rape that is kona, but I'd still go for a big pond.

peter kern

9.15 in austria for a male would not get you to Kona unless you are 40 and older ...

coppinger wrote: »

My original post wasnt intended as a "racing in ireland is great and racing abroad is for fools" thread, I honestly asked what the buzz was, so I'll follow up with another question (hypothetical of course)

would you rather

Go 9:15 in austria, finish 3rd in age group, 95th overall and kona qualify

or

Go 9:15 in athlone and win the event.

Personally I would be torn and couldnt decide between the two, Kona is the pinnacle and a major life event, but a win is a win.
So big fish in small pond or small fish in big pond?

bryangiggsy

peter kern wrote: »

9.15 in austria for a male would not get you to Kona unless you are 40 and older ...

Woohoo!!! roll on July 2nd when i hit the latter!!!! Now whats the former:D

Rawhead

The reason I decided on Frankfurt was that I only plan doing one IM and I'm as well do a race with near guaranteed good weather, big crowds and a proven track record. Given the choice of playing one game of ball in either a back pitch in Leitrim or in Croker, I think it's a no brainer. There is no doubt it is very expensive but as it's only the once I can justify it that way, I also used the "sure we'll make a weekend out of it" as a sweetener with herself.
Having done Humbert a few times and the Galway half IM, I definitely think the crowds help. I'm sure the "purists" would feel that unless you do an IM in the rain, wearing hobnail boots on a 27year old bike you don't count. The problem with the purists is they remind me of the yokes that hang around pubs in Galway smoking rollies and wearing dirty Aran sweaters. Likewise the hipsters who are so cool that they don't even use the word IM, who sneer at people who've only done 1/2 races, who don't consider you an athlete unless your sub 10% bf and are so nonchalant about the race that they "might rock up to the start with a hangover".
The rest if us don't really care what you do as long as your happy.

peter kern

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Woohoo!!! roll on July 2nd when i hit the latter!!!! Now whats the former:D

i think last year austria was 9.25 ish and frankfurt some 8 min slower.
google it
( i leave the rest of you to discuss role down , as i am sure that will be the next argument that a role down dosnt count... )

bryangiggsy

Op...i can attest to the fact that the atmosphere at a European Ironman is quite spectacular unlike any race you do in Irl.Organisation is also second to none. The chances of nice weather are much better in Europe summer. Yes its expensive but if you have trained 9 mths for it its worth it imo.

Regarding the other discussions going on here i know a few people who have done numerous Ironmans but will not race any courses outside of Austria,Roth, Western Australia,Barcelona,Florida because they are PB courses.
Hence why the likes of Lanazarote,UK ,Wales,France are always slow to sell out. People want fast times.
After riding the Lanzarote course a few weeks ago i would go as far as saying i would respect someone more going sub 10 there then sub 915 in a pb course.

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Op...i can attest to the fact that the atmosphere at a European Ironman is quite spectacular unlike any race you do in Irl.Organisation is also second to none. The chances of nice weather are much better in Europe summer. Yes its expensive but if you have trained 9 mths for it its worth it imo.

Regarding the other discussions going on here i know a few people who have done numerous Ironmans but will not race any courses outside of Austria,Roth, Western Australia,Barcelona,Florida because they are PB courses.
Hence why the likes of Lanazarote,UK ,Wales,France are always slow to sell out. People want fast times.
After riding the Lanzarote course a few weeks ago i would go as far as saying i would respect someone more going sub 10 there then sub 915 in a pb course.

Simplifying a tad there.

• Lanazarote - quite alot do this, my only aversion would be the time required to go (i.e. going to be guts of ten days no?)
• UK - the organisers of IMUK and the half have a terrible reputation. Plus given the roads and weather the same argument against hardman is valid
• Wales - given the roads and weather the same argument against hardman is valid
• France - alot of the concern here is the heat. terrible terrible heat.

The "fast" argument is to some degree valid but often terrible stats about the 30th percentile in some race versus Frankfurt/Roth is used. Ignoring the fact that this race was in the states where the average weight of a competitor is twice that in the "fast" races.

Some courses are faster than others, some years are faster than others.

However alot of races are avoided simply because they/the location/the organisers are ****.

Oryx

For the record UK was prereg and sold out in less than a week this year. Gets a big local crowd. They don't mind a few hills.

But it is very easy to spot the hard races. They don't fill in a day.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

bryangiggsy wrote: »

After riding the Lanzarote course a few weeks ago i would go as far as saying i would respect someone more going sub 10 there then sub 915 in a pb course.

Sub 10 in Lanza would be a very good result. I would only rate the course about half an hour slower than the races you mentioned and all of it on the bike course.

bryangiggsy

Bridget Late Slothfulness wrote: »

Sub 10 in Lanza would be a very good result. I would only rate the course about half an hour slower than the races you mentioned and all of it on the bike course.

You could be right re the 30 mins but what effect would the 8000+ feet of climbing and heartbreaking wind have on your marathon time? surely some

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

You could be right re the 30 mins but what effect would the 8000+ feet of climbing and heartbreaking wind have on your marathon time? surely some

A watt is a watt is a watt. As long as you geared appropiately

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

Simplifying a tad there.

• Lanazarote - quite alot do this, my only aversion would be the time required to go (i.e. going to be guts of ten days no?)
• UK - the organisers of IMUK and the half have a terrible reputation. Plus given the roads and weather the same argument against hardman is valid
• Wales - given the roads and weather the same argument against hardman is valid
• France - alot of the concern here is the heat. terrible terrible heat.

The "fast" argument is to some degree valid but often terrible stats about the 30th percentile in some race versus Frankfurt/Roth is used. Ignoring the fact that this race was in the states where the average weight of a competitor is twice that in the "fast" races.

Some courses are faster than others, some years are faster than others.

However alot of races are avoided simply because they/the location/the organisers are ****.

Some good points Dave. Lanzarote is on my bucket list. Only a 4hr flight and its cheap there. reckon you could easily do a 5 day trip there.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

bryangiggsy wrote: »

You could be right re the 30 mins but what effect would the 8000+ feet of climbing and heartbreaking wind have on your marathon time? surely some

If you pace the climbs sensibly then not too much. Pretty much the last 50k from memory is downhill/flat so plenty of time to recover. I think i done it in 5hrs 50 or 6hrs at the time so half an hour out seems about right.

Mr Tango

Lanza is good. I did it last year. Long bike but would do it again some day. if you can descend with cross winds you are sorted - I cant and it cost me tons of time.

Went out for a week and had a holiday out of it so was really good. Flights were similar price to frnakfurt were I am going this year.

To the post re guaranteed good weather - did Frankfurt as my first on three years ago - it rained for the whole bike and was about 12 degrees max (was 8 at the start of the bike) so don't bank on the sunshine!!! Hoping to get better this year.

And yes I picked Frankfurt this year for a PB!!!

Atmosphere was great in the rain so on a good day id say it would be unbelievable. You wont get tens of thousands at any Irish race.

But one day I think I might do the Hardman race - ring of Kerry sounds like an iconic bike leg.

rooneyjm

Anyone got an info/opinion on IM Copenhagen. Its on in late August, which would give you all summer to train. Bright days, better weather, plenty of OW training etc etc.

Pmaldini

rooneyjm wrote: »

Anyone got an info/opinion on IM Copenhagen. Its on in late August, which would give you all summer to train. Bright days, better weather, plenty of OW training etc etc.

I'm doing it this year, couple of the lads did it last year and said it was a great race, very well supported and pretty fast, which will make no difference to me as i am captain slow:D

Shedite27

rooneyjm wrote: »

Anyone got an info/opinion on IM Copenhagen. Its on in late August, which would give you all summer to train. Bright days, better weather, plenty of OW training etc etc.

I went with Austria for the date it's on (last week of June). Gives you the rest of the summer to enjoy your weekends again. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Rawhead

I only really plan on doing Frankfurt this year, maybe one other race. If I just get associate membership can I race Frankfurt on a 1 day license?