Catty/Discriminatory comments at work?

Hannaho

I had a bit of hassle with two work colleagues who were excluding me, making snide comments etc. - one of them left because of job stress - so it's easier just to manage the one remaining colleague that's left - not as many snicde comments now, but still some, mainly over me being a single parent, e.g. several times after I had been talking about my son - every house needs a man, a boy always needs a male role model - my son is bright and doing really well at school - so absence of a male role model hasn't hit just yet! Today, at a meeting where we all had to bet into groups of 8 and discuss possible reasons for suicide in those up to age 25 - we went through family violence, family history of mental health problems including suicide, poverty, family breakdown, bullying, cyperbullying etc - however, my colleague then said, in front of everyone, and I was the only single parent in the group, that single mothers were responsible for mental illness/suicide in young people, i.e. not single parents or single dads, but single mothers! I shot her one hell of a look, and she fumbled about it not being about me, but I didn't accept that at all. I was very cool with her for the rest of the day. Has anyone any recommendations about dealing with this - should I confront her and say that if I have any more prejudiced comments like this, I will take it to our manager, or should I leave it alone? It was on the tip of my tongue to say that there were plenty of parents who remained married and were absolutely killing each other. She had told me before that at times herself and her husband had argued so much that they had talked about separating several times. I guess it's ok to be killing each other and remain married, and the kids absolutely cannot be affected by this, just because one remains married, but it is not ok to separate and have a nice peaceful family life! Advice/comments appreciated.

Penny Tration

I would start to note down all her comments towards you, with dates/times, and then take it to your managee/hr dept.

blindsider

green_screen wrote: »

I would start to note down all her comments towards you, with dates/times, and then take it to your managee/hr dept.

Yep - do this by all means. You will probably need to be able to demonstrate that you have tried to address the issue also - and before it becomes too big a deal.

If you get on well with your boss, then a quiet word might work....

If not, have a think about what you might say next time she say sth. to you. If you have a few examples (written down) of comments made and then she makes another comment, you could say e.g.

"I notice you've made a few comments re this to me in the last while. Is there sth we need to discuss, or could we agree to not make comments which might lead to us having an issue?"

If she drops its, good. If she challenges you, you have notes, and if your boss needs to get involved, then you've acted reasonably.

Mrs OBumble

You should have involved your manager already:

If you've been put into groups to discuss an issue like this at work, then I'd expect you're in a workplace where attitudes to this type of issue matter. (If not, then it's hell-of-a-risky to have been bringing up the topic with you, but that's for another thread.)

And if attitudes matter, and you have evidence that your colleague's attitudes are not evidence based, then you should be putting it forward.

Ray Palmer

I would take a different slant on this completely. Stop talking about your personal life. By actively talking about your family situation you are leaving yourself open to comments. People are allowed have an opinion.

From what you described it sounds like you are in some form of caring/social profession. The reality is certain facts and figures are not PC. You can't talk about suicide and say it is equal between men and woman because it isn't.

Whether you like it or not there could be a certain studies that suggest sons of single mothers (specifically) are more likely to commit suicide. I actually think there are a few. There is a link to poverty and suicide and single mothers are likely to be in poverty.

What ever the nature of your job you are going to have accept certain reality when discussing issues.

mrsdewinter

Re the meeting, OP, is it not possible that she really was talking about the matter at hand, and not your personal situation? She may be working off completely bonkers info/research but the whole point of meetings is that *everything* is put on the table before the group sifts through the information and comes up with a plan of action.
It would be completely unprofessional of her to magic up this issue at a work meeting just to get a dig in at you.
Could you have a quiet word with whoever chaired the meeting? Just to make sure you were reading the situation correctly?

Glinda

Op, please have a look at the 'harassment at work' section on the Citizen's Information website, it seems to describe your situation perfectly.

It also advises what to do in these situations and sets out a series of steps to follow.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/harassment_at_work.html

road_high

Hannaho wrote: »

I had a bit of hassle with two work colleagues who were excluding me, making snide comments etc. - one of them left because of job stress - so it's easier just to manage the one remaining colleague that's left - not as many snicde comments now, but still some, mainly over me being a single parent, e.g. several times after I had been talking about my son - every house needs a man, a boy always needs a male role model - my son is bright and doing really well at school - so absence of a male role model hasn't hit just yet! Today, at a meeting where we all had to bet into groups of 8 and discuss possible reasons for suicide in those up to age 25 - we went through family violence, family history of mental health problems including suicide, poverty, family breakdown, bullying, cyperbullying etc - however, my colleague then said, in front of everyone, and I was the only single parent in the group, that single mothers were responsible for mental illness/suicide in young people, i.e. not single parents or single dads, but single mothers! I shot her one hell of a look, and she fumbled about it not being about me, but I didn't accept that at all. I was very cool with her for the rest of the day. Has anyone any recommendations about dealing with this - should I confront her and say that if I have any more prejudiced comments like this, I will take it to our manager, or should I leave it alone? It was on the tip of my tongue to say that there were plenty of parents who remained married and were absolutely killing each other. She had told me before that at times herself and her husband had argued so much that they had talked about separating several times. I guess it's ok to be killing each other and remain married, and the kids absolutely cannot be affected by this, just because one remains married, but it is not ok to separate and have a nice peaceful family life! Advice/comments appreciated.

Even if OP this ridiculous comment was not aimed at you it still is highly inappropriate. I shudder to think what kind of job this person is in and how she deals with people holding such small minded prejudices.

Ray Palmer

road_high wrote: »

Even if OP this ridiculous comment was not aimed at you it still is highly inappropriate. I shudder to think what kind of job this person is in and how she deals with people holding such small minded prejudices.

The thing is it isn't inappropriate. If you are talking about suicide causes and demographics certain things are true or they must be considered. Do you know that single mothers are likely to have their sons commit suicide statistically or not? You still have to ask the question

A transgender child is likely to be murdered by the time they hit 30 in the USA. To say it isn't small minded it is actually true.

Given they were talking about this topic for work tells you that the work environment would involve knowing many such studies. Mentioning children not doing as well in education with a single mother is actually true. For somebody to comment on the fact specifically in a personal situation could be seen as inappropriate but it is also not discrimination nor untrue. To avoid such discussion you just don't talk about your personal life.

I have worked with people who were very well versed in real world problems and it doesn't come across as PC. The reason being is it is PC blind it works on facts. You have to accept that just not applied to your personal life.

Dermighty

Hannaho wrote: »

but still some, mainly over me being a single parent, e.g. several times after I had been talking about my son - every house needs a man, a boy always needs a male role model - my son is bright and doing really well at school - so absence of a male role model hasn't hit just yet! .

Bear with me here:

From working in an environment where smart comments are made on a regular basis, by the majority of people I have to say that talking about your personal life does give scope to people to comment on your personal life.

You saying something nice about your son does take the work relationship beyond professional (which is how it is with most jobs) and unfortunately you have someone working with you that has a (potentially) sh!tty attitude.

I'm not saying you are at fault here but if you didn't talk about your personal life then any comments this person had would be completely out of context and would be taken more seriously. What I mean is: if your relationship is strictly professional, and she makes a comment about your appearance, it's unprofessional. If you mention that your son scored 20 points in a basketball game and she said "that's pretty crap, the average for a kid his age is 30 points" then that's not really here nor there is it?

Another example: if I bought a new green car some people at work would say positive things and some would potentially say negative things about the colour. If I talk about my personal life at work I need to prepare for positive and negative comments, doesn't mean I have to like it!

TL;DR: keep work for work and your private life for your private life, mixing one into the other can provide a few difficulties like meeting idiots.

Hannaho

Hi! Thanks for all your replies - much appreciated.

I told my colleague as we walked to the bus after our work course that I was annoyed with what she said, and I felt it was absolutely directed at me. She tried to fuze the issue, denying it initially and then saying she didn't say it. I then told her that two of the other people who were on the course and in our group - (not our work colleagues) had heard her comment and told me they were embarrassed by it, and felt it was totally inappropriate to the context of our discussion. We couldn't finish the conversation as the bus came, and it was very crowded, and we were getting off at different stops. My colleague tried to approach me twice the next day at our course - but both times I was deep in conversation with other people - on the second occasion, she stormed off, slamming the door behind her and everyone saying that her behaviour was inappropriate - we managed to get to talk about it on the way to the bus that evening again, but it was not really resolved. I just said that I had enough of her digs, that I tried to let them go over my head, but when they became personal about my status as a single mum, or the lack of a male role model in our house - then I thought enough is enough. I said I would document the comments if they happened again and tell our manager.

Just for the record - re children or young adults who self harm - I am doing a Phd on this topic - I am eighteen months into a six year part-time Phd on the topic and I have worked in this area for about 10 years - there is no link between single parents and self-harm in young people. However, there is a strong link between chronic parental conflict, domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction in parents, and more recently internet/technology addictions where parents' attention is directed substantially away from children due to other problems in the home. In these situations children often self-harm to cope with the distress. Ongoing conflict between parents post divorce is also another red flag for self-harm, particularly if there is on going legal battles. Of course, bullying is a huge red flag for self-harm, i.e. peer bullying and/or bullying by adults. In terms of other mental health problems - it has been know that high expressed emotion/chronic conflict in the home is linked to the development of schizophrenia - this has been known since the late 1950s. While single parents might have more stress due to coping on their own, and might have fewer financial resources, a happy stable, single parent home is far preferable in terms of preserving mental health of children, than a two parent home where there is chronic conflict.

Re. not telling people so much about my life in work - I don't tell anyone more than normal trivia or chit chat about my life. We had to do a team building exercise when I started in the job - it was a group exercise telling people about ourselves and what was important in our lives. I said I was a single parent and that might children were the most important in my life. A single dad in our office, talked about his wife dying and said his children were what was most important to him - other people talked about their husbands and children or a parent who had died etc. I was glad to be given the opportunity to say I was a single parent, as previously in jobs, people when they knew I had children, would eventually ask where my husband worked, or what he did for a living, and I would have to tell them I was a single parent - which seemed to be more embarrassing for them than for me. Even though everyone else knows I am a single parent now - no one else in my workplace has made digs about it - most of them say they don't know how I do it.

Also in relation to not telling people about one's life in work - we all chat about our kids what they are doing - whether one is making their confirmation, another colleague's child is doing cheerleading - where we are going on holidays - one person is going to Brazil this year on holidays, another is going to the U.S. - this conversation helps to oil the wheels of social conversation in work - it's not revealing private info.

This colleague who has made digs at me re being a single parent has made digs about me in front of my manger and he looked really shocked at the time - for instance, she said 'everybody loves (me), and that's why they help me - and then she said will they might also come to help me because they think I'm incompetent.' I left the meeting early, so didn't get a chance to say anything to my manager, or him to me.

As I said to my colleague, I don't mind the digs about work so much, but I find the one's about my son needing a role model, or sons being tied to the apron strings of single mothers, or single mothers are more likely to have children who self-harm, very offensive. I wonder would she make similar digs to a gay colleague about their sexuality, or to a black colleague about his colour or race, I don't think so!

Ray Palmer

Hannaho wrote: »

Just for the record - re children or young adults who self harm - I am doing a Phd on this topic - I am eighteen months into a six year part-time Phd on the topic and I have worked in this area for about 10 years - there is no link between single parents and self-harm in young people. However, there is a strong link between chronic parental conflict, domestic violence, drug and alcohol addiction in parents, and more recently internet/technology addictions where parents' attention is directed substantially away from children due to other problems in the home. In these situations children often self-harm to cope with the distress. Ongoing conflict between parents post divorce is also another red flag for self-harm, particularly if there is on going legal battles. Of course, bullying is a huge red flag for self-harm, i.e. peer bullying and/or bullying by adults. In terms of other mental health problems - it has been know that high expressed emotion/chronic conflict in the home is linked to the development of schizophrenia - this has been known since the late 1950s. While single parents might have more stress due to coping on their own, and might have fewer financial resources, a happy stable, single parent home is far preferable in terms of preserving mental health of children, than a two parent home where there is chronic conflict.

While I appreciate that is what you have taken from your studies and work life it isn't that clear cut. It almost sound like you are making similar digs about problems than can occur with couples.

You might find it insulting for the suggestion about self harm and single parents but that does not mean the question or topic cannot be discussed.

There are links to poverty and self harm.
There are links to being a single parent and poverty.
There are links to single mother specifically being more likely to be in poverty than other single parents.
There are issues of self esteem in children of single parents.

So if you take those together it is not unreasonable to ask the question and/or make a correlation.

I am not saying in anyway being a single parent is fundamentally a bad thing but it does have issues. Some are good at it and some or not but it is more difficult and prone to more strains. Mostly down to the financially difficulties which permeate into other aspects of life.

In saying that you clarification on your colleagues behaviour is obviously beyond acceptable or interpretation. I don't agree about personal matters, it is very easy to remove them from conversations in work and still remain friendly. I move around jobs and one place people didn't know I was married and I had been there a year. It was clear very early on you didn't want to talk about your personal life. Mostly to do with a mixed bag of nationalities and religion.