Rent in advance

Rocker chick

Good morning!

My tenants are moving out next month, having been given the required notice under PRTB guidelines.

But they are arguing that since they paid a month in advance when they moved in (as is the case with all tenancy agreements as far as I know) they are not required to pay any more rent.

My understanding is that a rent in advance means the tenant pays the month, then lives there, i.e. they are now paid up to last weekend, but they are not covered for the remainder of the tenancy.

They did pay a security deposit at the start of the tenancy, but again, my understanding is that this is for any damage and cannot be used in lieu of rent.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

theteal

You have it correctly as afaik. They pay at the beginning of April for the month of April. Are they moving out mid-month?

djimi

If they are moving out on 30th April then they pay their last months rent on 30th March. The month in advance covered them for their first month in the tenancy (unless you charged them something like first month plus month in advance, which would be something like the US system of first and last month up front but would be very unusual over here).

Its up to you what you do with the security deposit but yes, it is generally used for cover damage, financial shortfall etc. You can allow them to use it as last months rent if you wish, but it leaves you no cover should there be any damage to the property. Just be aware that a lot of tenants seem to think that a security deposit and their last months rent are the same thing...

johnnyskeleton

If I take out a 12 month lease today to start on the 1st April at €1,000 per month and 1 month security deposit, I will pay you as follows:

1) 2k in mar 14 for deposit and April rent
2) 1k in apr 14 for May rent
3) 1k in may 14 for June rent
Etc etc until
12) 1k in February 15 for march 15

Since my 12 month lease ends on the 31st march, my last rent payment is in feb as that is my 12th monthly installment in advance.

So if your tenant paid you a months rent before they moved in as an advance month, they have already paid for this month.

It might help to count up the total payments and the number of months there and see if they add up

Rocker chick

Thanks for the help.

The last rental payment was in February (22) which covered until 22nd March.

So I was expecting another payment in March, covering until 22 April, when they move.

I can't see how a payment on 22 Feb would cover until 22 April?

theteal

They owe you another month's rent

djimi

Rocker chick wrote: »

Thanks for the help.

The last rental payment was in February (22) which covered until 22nd March.

So I was expecting another payment in March, covering until 22 April, when they move.

I can't see how a payment on 22 Feb would cover until 22 April?

I have no idea why they think they wouldnt have to pay their last months rent, but you are absolutely correct in your thinking.

Just explain to them that the month that they paid up front covered them for their first month in the property. They should be able to work the rest out for themselves from there.

And make it absolutely clear that their security deposit is not to be used for the last months rent under any circumstances (I suspect they probably think that it will be used as the last months rent).

Rocker chick

Thanks a lot ladies and gents.

the_syco

Rocker chick wrote: »

But they are arguing that since they paid a month in advance when they moved in (as is the case with all tenancy agreements as far as I know) they are not required to pay any more rent.

Arrange a visit, to ensure the place is in good order. If they plan to use their deposit as their last months rent, I'd be concerned that they think they won't get their deposit back as their place is damaged?

Rocker chick

An update. The tenant refuses to accept that further rent is due.

I sent a full statement of account since the start of the tenancy, showing the amount paid and the period it applied to (and the fact that rent is now due and security deposit can't be used in lieu of rent).

I now have to take a case to the PRTB, which no doubt will not be resolved in time, as the tenants are due to move out next month.. Very frustrating.

Ray Palmer

Thy effectively are refusing to pay their last month and expect you to take it out of the deposit which they can't do legally. They also appear to be trying to do you out of a few days rent too.

Nobody in their right mind would believe they don't understand this.

Rocker chick

I have been regularly visiting the house. It's not in great condition either, as a result of the tenancy. So I'm expecting a further battle to try and get payment for "damages".

The previous tenants in the house had their full deposit returned as they kept it immaculate.

As everything is in black and white - i.e. the full statement has been sent to the tenant, I too am at a loss to explain why they still can't see that rent is due. It's so so frustrating and time consuming.

djimi

They are either incredibly stupid or, as is more likely, deviously playing dumb in the knowledge that you will just keep the deposit as the the last months rent and they will get away with any damage caused.

There isnt really much that you can do unfortunately. As you say, PRTB will take too long to sort out and wont happen before they move out. Best thing that you can do is take a mountain of evidence regarding the state of the place and get all of your invoices and receipts for any repairs necessary and open a case with the PRTB in an effort to recover the damage. Whether or not you will see the money is anyones guess, but such is the legal process that we have.

theteal

Sorry OP, they're pulling a fast one trying to use the deposit as last month's rent and there's not really much you can do. Issue the usual notices of rent arrears etc. Hopefully they do actually move out next month

cerastes

You could start issuing the correct notice for arrears immediately
depending on your lease, to cover witholding the full deposit but furthering your complaint for recovery of costs for damages.
Assuming they intend leaving, if not it improves your chances in having a case for getting rid of them.

Rocker chick

Thanks for the help, suggestions and advice.

I will definitely take a PRTB case, for all the good it'll do! The tenant knows how long that'll take and will be long gone before any judgement, but it's the only option available really.

cerastes

PRTB could take a while, warning notice followed by the correct notices will let them know you are serious if they are taking the piss. Its possible they think they are right, go with it written out on paper and speak to them, show where they paid and mark off each month, then get them to explain the missing month??
If they remain stubborn or try say its just a month or use the deposit, be prepared and have your answers ready, dont deviate or get bogged down in an argument.
If that fails, make a record of it, and then follow that with the notices.

Rocker chick

Hi Cerastes. I've already given a full written statement, showing where they are paid up to, explaining that deposit cannot be used in lieu of rent and asking for an explanation of where they think the statement is wrong. They are refusing to reply to this. Earlier today the lead tenant sent me a text, saying they'd been onto the PRTB and are "completely in the right". I know that cannot be true as the PRTB would not make a random statement without seeing the facts, or having a case taken. So I'm definitely being given the run-around. They seem set for battle. I thankfully have everything in writing. It's a good idea to sent a notice of rent arrears, I'll do that too. Thanks.

Bigcheeze

Honestly, you should be pragmatic about this and be glad to get rid of them. PRTB is just going to waste more of your time. Going to war with tenants who are leaving could cause them to do something nasty to the property.

It could be a lot worse. If you read some of the threads on here where landlords are owed months of rent and can do SFA about it.

cerastes

Rocker chick wrote: »

Hi Cerastes. I've already given a full written statement, showing where they are paid up to, explaining that deposit cannot be used in lieu of rent and asking for an explanation of where they think the statement is wrong. They are refusing to reply to this. Earlier today the lead tenant sent me a text, saying they'd been onto the PRTB and are "completely in the right". I know that cannot be true as the PRTB would not make a random statement without seeing the facts, or having a case taken. So I'm definitely being given the run-around. They seem set for battle. I thankfully have everything in writing. It's a good idea to sent a notice of rent arrears, I'll do that too. Thanks.

I should say it could be just as good to get rid of them, they wont have a case for witholding the deposit if you have proof of non payment of rent.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Honestly, you should be pragmatic about this and be glad to get rid of them. PRTB is just going to waste more of your time. Going to war with tenants who are leaving could cause them to do something nasty to the property.

It could be a lot worse. If you read some of the threads on here where landlords are owed months of rent and can do SFA about it.

As above, Id consider this too. It could be good to get rid of them OP, if they are going, it might be worth getting them out.
If however they decline to leave after the lease has expired and are not paying, I would definitely submit notices. Personally Id consider doing it now myself, but weight the options, you know what they are like, Id be firm with them and stand your ground. They may be testing you to see if you will fold, losing a small amount might be worth getting rid of them too.

If they leave you short of rent or accountable damages, dont refund the deposit and itemise the deductions.
Id keep it business liek but firm, dont argue, dont let them see you are unhappy, frustrated,annoyed even if you are. If you can get a forwarding address for any letters etc, or even if you say for following up with the deposit, then you will have time to check for damages. Check PRTB on what the time allowances are on that, even if you know you arent returning deposit due to unpaid rent, keep them from doing something bad in the meantime till they leave.
You then have an address for forwarding your PRTB complaint, once they are gone, I personally would pursue it after they are gone, but its your decision wether to do that or not, at least to make a record of it, even if its unlikely you will recover money. If that happened more often, people like this would realise they cannot take the piss.
If you think they are trying to intimidate you, bring support. Does sound better to get them out rather than going to war, prepare for their leaving

djimi

You can give a notice of arrears as a formality, but if they are moving out at the end of next month then it means nothing in reality, as a full notice of arrears is for six weeks (14 day notice of arrears and 28 day notice of termination).