If he was a dog he'd have been a dead dog.

errlloyd

I was driving home on the N11 on Saturday, it had just rained pretty hard and it was getting dark, I was in the outside line as I was about to Uturn between Cherrywood and Cabinteely (just before the petrol station if you know it). I was doing 60 in a Subaru Legacy estate. We'd put new rear tyres on and serviced the breaks that morning.

Anyway, there are about 2 kids in the middle of the road, and one darts across from the left to join them about 100m in front of me. I remarked to the passenger that it was bloody stupid, if he'd slipped he would have been right in front of me. Anyway, no sooner had I said it a fourth kid who I hadn't seen before runs from the left. He can't have been more than 7 or 8, he was certainly less than 5ft tall.

He had his hood up, his head turned away from me, he was sprinting, completely oblivious to me. As soon as he put his foot on the bus lane, I hit the breaks hard, I felt them bouncing so I figure the ABS kicked in. There was a van directly behind me also doing 60, probably pissed off that I was only doing the speed limit while hogging the outside line. I knew he was close, so close that if it'd been a dog not a kid I would have just killed it. In those few seconds I was pretty sure I was going to hit the kid, and almost positive the van was going to hit me. I didn't beep or anything, I was afraid that I wasn't going to stop in a short enough distance and the kids only chance was that he got across ahead of me, so scaring him might have caused him to fall.

The car came to a stop less than a metre short of where he had been running, and the van probably got closer to me behind. I was scared ****less. I was close to home, so I took the Uturn drove into the drive and just sat in the car for a while. My passenger had advised I try give out to the kids but I honestly was too shocked to speak, let alone plan the best way to make a complicated point about road safety to a bunch of neglected brats.

Anyway, I guess I'm posting for two reasons. Firstly if you were driving a van northbound on the N11 near Cabinteely at around 7pm on Saturday and you managed to avoid rear ending a subaru estate who braked suddenly and without warning, thank you. If you hadn't been concentrating I was ****ed.

Secondly, when I was learning to drive people never stopped telling me "always concentrate on the road, you never know when someone might jump out in front of you" - I kinda dismissed it. While I don't assume other drivers are of a good standard, I did tend to assume that most people had some element of self preservation, and would never run in front of my car, I was wrong to assume that. On another day I'd take that road 10 clicks faster while playing with the radio and I dunno the legalities of it, but at the very minimum I'd have killed a child, but I guess there is every chance I'd be going to jail.

ProudDUB

God love ya. That sounds like a horrible experience. Things like that really stay with you, don't they, especially the sheer randomness of it all?

A few months ago, two kids on bikes came flying out of a lane and onto the road in front of me. A parked van stopped me from seeing them, until I was right on top of them. I slammed on the brakes just in time. Naturally, the two little fcukers just carried on up the road on their bikes, completely oblivious to what had just happened.

Luckily, I had just pulled out of a petrol station, so I was only doing about 20 mph. If I hadn't stopped for petrol, and was driving down the road at the speed that I normally do, the two of them would probably wound up under the wheels of my car. I had nightmares about it for weeks.

No matter how good a driver you are, or how vigilant you are, you just can't control the stupidity of others. And the speed with which something bad like that can happen, just takes your breath away. I hope you don't remain shaken up over it for long.

Cookie_Monster

errlloyd wrote: »

There was a van directly behind me also doing 60, probably pissed off that I was only doing the speed limit while hogging the outside line.

the limit there is 80 isn't it, 60 in the bus lane only? Just as well you weren't doing that given the conditions...
used to live just up the road, it's a frequent convenient crossing place between house / busstop / garage / halting site / park

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the limit there is 80 isn't it, 60 in the bus lane only? Just as well you weren't doing that given the conditions...
used to live just up the road, it's a frequent convenient crossing place between house / busstop / garage / halting site / park

Yep 80. I've also seen people use the U-turn while driving the opposite way. One lady does it every morning.

FYI for anybody who is interested.

blastman

There's a kid with a very limited life expectancy.

H3llR4iser

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yep 80. I've also seen people use the U-turn while driving the opposite way. One lady does it every morning.

FYI for anybody who is interested.

Very interesting that there would be kids in the middle of such a road...great parenting.

Cuddlesworth

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Very interesting that there would be kids in the middle of such a road...great parenting.

There is a small halting site close by. It wouldn't be unusual to have kids crossing the road there.

Grolschevik

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There is a small halting site close by. It wouldn't be unusual to have kids crossing the road there.

There are also several housing estates. Not sure of the relevance of your point.

minotour

^ knacker kids more likely to run out in road than non-knacker kids, fairly basic point to be honest

Mod note: user banned

Grolschevik

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Very interesting that there would be kids in the middle of such a road...great parenting.

Crossing to get to the bus stop or the shop at the garage. As I said, there are housing estates either side of that road. Used to live beside it myself. Crossed it daily to get to bus stop.

Grolschevik

minotour wrote: »

^ knacker kids more likely to run out in road than non-knacker kids, fairly basic point to be honest

See my point above. Basic point not true.

ironclaw

Could be worse. There is an (What I can only hope is unofficial) ladder on the wall here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.256167,-6.183314,3a,75y,168.73h,71.76t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbRu-2hjHTuyM-xzp0vcnMw!2e0

And I often see kids go from the Foxrock side to the Ballyogan side at night. Utter lunacy.

And yes, the OP was in an 80 zone there. Its 80 from Foxrock Church to Lochlinstown Roundabout. Although if they were doing 80 it would have been a different story I'd say.

No Pants

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There is a small halting site close by. It wouldn't be unusual to have kids crossing the road there.

Grolschevik wrote: »

There are also several housing estates. Not sure of the relevance of your point.

The OP has just told a sobering and thought-provoking story. Can we just stay on that and leave this for another time.

Iwannahurl

No Pants wrote: »

The OP has just told a sobering and thought-provoking story. Can we just stay on that and leave this for another time.

Information about halting sites and residential estates is very relevant. TTBOMK most children do not choose to run on busy roads for fun. Why were they there? The answer to that has a bearing on the OP's stressful near-collision experience.

ironclaw

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Information about halting sites and residential estates is very relevant. TTBOMK most children do not choose to run on busy roads for fun. Why were they there? The answer to that has a bearing on the OP's stressful near-collision experience.

I think the connection was 'halting sites' means 'halting site' kids more likely to run across the road. Which isn't the case. I've seen kids from 'posh' estates do some truly stupid things on roads.

The area in question has two petrol stations, a large park and is heavily residential. The spot the OP is referring to is literally where they all meet. Its also the furtherest point from a safe crossing point (At Cabinteely, at least 500m away, and Laurence's School, at least 500m in the other direction) That is far more relevant than 'halting site' kids etc.

They were there simply because they were probably up to mischief or going to the petrol station. Where they are from really has no bearing in my opinion.

DeedeeL

Know exactly what you're talking about

Last year heading out of town just passed a roundabout travelling very slowly , Women crossing road with 2 dogs one on lead, stopped on white line, bent down to dog . We'd slowed down to about 15/ along with driver ahead of us. Then dog walker stepped out in front of first car who slammed on brakes - we skidded hit back of her car surface greasy.

Cause of accident: dog walker who went to walk away guards called weren't interested - we weren't disputing liability

BTW traffic lights with pedestrian crossing less than 100 yards up road.

My car had to be towed other drove away,

Still get furious thinking about it so am quite wary when driving now

Cuddlesworth

ironclaw wrote: »

The area in question has two petrol stations, a large park and is heavily residential. The spot the OP is referring to is literally where they all meet. Its also the furtherest point from a safe crossing point (At Cabinteely, at least 500m away, and Laurence's School, at least 500m in the other direction) That is far more relevant than 'halting site' kids etc.

The bus stop being referred to is around 150 meters from the entrance of the old bray road beside the Esso station. Meanwhile 200 meters the other way is the pedestrian crossing, two bus stops and a entrance to the park.

Within the specific area, there is a tiny amount of housing that requires an actual need to cross right there.

ironclaw

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The bus stop being referred to is around 150 meters from the entrance of the old bray road beside the Esso station. Meanwhile 200 meters the other way is the pedestrian crossing, two bus stops and a entrance to the park.

Within the specific area, there is a tiny amount of housing that requires an actual need to cross right there.

I know. I drive this stretch most days

errlloyd

This wasn't a case of poor town planning or even laziness by their part not wanting to go to the other crossing. I've a feeling there was an element of the kids in the middle egging him on.

If I'm honest my initial reaction after driving was to blame "scumbags".

Iwannahurl

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The bus stop being referred to is around 150 meters from the entrance of the old bray road beside the Esso station. Meanwhile 200 meters the other way is the pedestrian crossing, two bus stops and a entrance to the park.

Within the specific area, there is a tiny amount of housing that requires an actual need to cross right there.

Sounds like a case of community severance. Car dependent countries like ours are very good at creating community severance. Then when people try to cross the road at the shortest point, instead of taking the long detours dictated by roads engineers catering mainly for private cars, we blame the victim. They shouldn't have been jay-walking, they should have walked the extra 250 metres to the signals and taken 5 minutes to cross the road, they should have been wearing hi-viz and so on an on.

DeedeeL wrote: »

Last year heading out of town just passed a roundabout travelling very slowly , Women crossing road with 2 dogs one on lead, stopped on white line, bent down to dog . We'd slowed down to about 15/ along with driver ahead of us. Then dog walker stepped out in front of first car who slammed on brakes - we skidded hit back of her car surface greasy.

There's a signalised junction in Galway City where red light-breakers can be seen at every change of the lights at peak times. I've seen motorists accelerate through the junction as people pushing prams cross on the green man, yet I've also seen motorists stop for dogs just down the road from the lights.

ProudDUB

Unsupervised children running wild in the middle of the road, causing possible injury to themselves and others, are not the victims in this instance. It's a bit of an insult to all the good drivers out there, who do their best to drive in a safe manner, to refer to them as that.

georgefalls

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

FYI for anybody who is interested.

That's cheap fuel

Iwannahurl

ProudDUB wrote: »

Unsupervised children running wild in the middle of the road, causing possible injury to themselves and others, are not the victims in this instance. It's a bit of an insult to all the good drivers out there, who do their best to drive in a safe manner, to refer to them as that.

Children often do unpredictable things, such as darting off suddenly. It's why we try to provide safe environments for them, so that they can be children without being unduly exposed to hazards such as heavy and/or high speed traffic.

OTOH, local authority roads engineers and "planners" in this country often do drearily predictable things, such as severing communities by running busy roads through them or developing residential areas with proper regard for road safety.

Cuddlesworth

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Sounds like a case of community severance. Car dependent countries like ours are very good at creating community severance. Then when people try to cross the road at the shortest point, instead of taking the long detours dictated by roads engineers catering mainly for private cars, we blame the victim. They shouldn't have been jay-walking, they should have walked the extra 250 metres to the signals and taken 5 minutes to cross the road, they should have been wearing hi-viz and so on an on.

I'm quite familiar with the area and you really have to go out of your way to try cross there. It would affect a tiny proportion of housing relative to the road importance and size.

There was another section further down opposite the Silver Tassie where the council have placed a pedestrian crossing recently and was a good example of community severance.

Giruilla

errlloyd wrote: »

There was a van directly behind me also doing 60, probably pissed off that I was only doing the speed limit while hogging the outside line. I knew he was close, so close that if it'd been a dog not a kid I would have just killed it.

Anyway, I guess I'm posting for two reasons. Firstly if you were driving a van northbound on the N11 near Cabinteely at around 7pm on Saturday and you managed to avoid rear ending a subaru estate who braked suddenly and without warning, thank you. If you hadn't been concentrating I was ****ed.

You're thanking someone for driving dangerously close behind you yet stopping in time? Van sounds like the one causing more danger than the kid.
Nobody should ever be driving so close behind someone that they can't comfortably stop suddenly if needs be.

bigroad

Giruilla wrote: »

You're thanking someone for driving dangerously close behind you yet stopping in time? Van sounds like the one causing more danger than the kid.
Nobody should ever be driving so close behind someone that they can't comfortably stop suddenly if needs be.

If the van was driving dangerously close behind, it would of hit the back of the op s car.The van driver knew his stopping distance,alert driver i would say and should be congratulated along with the op.

Giruilla

bigroad wrote: »

If the van was driving dangerously close behind, it would of hit the back of the op s car.The van driver knew his stopping distance,alert driver i would say and should be congratulated along with the op.

I knew he was close, so close that if it'd been a dog not a kid I would have just killed it.

Nobody should drive so close to the car in front that the driver is intimidated to the extent of being afraid they can stop without being rear ended.
It's bizarre and embarassing that someone would thank someone who did this to them.

ironclaw

Giruilla wrote: »

Nobody should drive so close to the car in front that the driver is intimidated to the extent of being afraid they can stop without being rear ended.
It's bizarre and embarassing that someone would thank someone who did this to them.

Unfortunately its an extremely common occurrence. Most people have zero spatial awareness of how big there car is and how close they are to the car in front. I often tell people, seriously, go stand on a flyover on the M50 at rush hour. One of the primary reasons there is traffic is people driving too close, getting nervous, hitting the brakes and this starts the infamous ripple effect.

I often drive the M11 / M50 and I've had plenty of near misses when you suddenly have to brake, and whilst I have a good distance, the driver behind me almost ends up in my passenger seat.

There needs to be an RSA campaign to keep a two car length (At the very least) between cars. There is absolutely no reason to drive any closer because your not going to get anywhere, any faster. But alas...

bigroad

ironclaw wrote: »

Unfortunately its an extremely common occurrence. Most people have zero spatial awareness of how big there car is and how close they are to the car in front. I often tell people, seriously, go stand on a flyover on the M50 at rush hour. One of the primary reasons there is traffic is people driving too close, getting nervous, hitting the brakes and this starts the infamous ripple effect.

I often drive the M11 / M50 and I've had plenty of near misses when you suddenly have to brake, and whilst I have a good distance, the driver behind me almost ends up in my passenger seat.

There needs to be an RSA campaign to keep a two car length (At the very least) between cars. There is absolutely no reason to drive any closer because your not going to get anywhere, any faster. But alas...

I agree ,but the problem we have is that drivers tend to hop into the safe gap .So to stop this people will drive closer to the vehicle in front.This happens more so when the roads are busy.More driver education is needed.

errlloyd

I was going for the uturn, so I was slow in the outside Lane. Yeah the van was close enough to make me worry once I'd hit the brakes. I guess I was worried because I thought his stopping distance was greater than mine and I was obviously worried he wasn't concentrating. I'd probably be on here moaning if he'd hit me, but he didn't, a lot of drivers would have, he was on the right hand side of the car kid was coming from the left. So there is a good chance he didn't see it at all. All he saw was a car in the outside Lane of the dual carriageway brake to a standstill.

Also because I was approaching the uturn, he may not have immediately reacted to my brake lights because he could have thought I was just slowing. (even though I obviously indicate before I brake.)