E-lass rant W210 (1995-2002)

Stallingrad

There is a place near me that specialises in breaking Mercs, most notably the W210 E class. I pass it often so I get lots of opportunity to poke around half dissembled cars.

It's common knowledge that these were not Mercs finest in terms of quality, but only when you get to see them in this state you see what a heap of junk they were. Every one has rust everywhere, wings and lower doors are the worst, all over the engine bay and bonnet. I've seen old school, Alfas with less rot. It is remarkable to think that the poor steel/rustproofing was ever deemed acceptable by Mercedes, even with the bean counters obviously at the helm.

Then you think this was the E39 competitor, and you realize just how good that car was, a different planet in terms of quality. My 14 year old E34 was even better again.

Dord

Nothing new. Most people know about this and especially Merc owners. It wasn't only on the E-Class but across the range.

From what I've seen it's more common on very late 90's and early 00's upwards. I think they corrected most of the issues by 06 or so.

Stallingrad

Dord wrote: »

Nothing new. Most people know about this and especially Merc owners. It wasn't only on the E-Class but across the range.

Hence my reference to 'common knowledge'. Still an eyeopener when you see them in the flesh, or what's left of it.

Tea 1000

Dord wrote: »

Nothing new. Most people know about this and especially Merc owners. It wasn't only on the E-Class but across the range.

From what I've seen it's more common on very late 90's and early 00's upwards. I think they corrected most of the issues by 06 or so.

I think the SL version that came out in 02 or 03, got a facelift in around 06 or there abouts, maybe late 05, that included a redesigned whole wiring loom because the original had the crap from the 95-05 era and was so bad they couldn't fix the faults with it.

ofcork

A guy at work had a 00 W210 and like that the amount of rust on it was huge,arches sills etc criminal that Mercedes allowed poor quality steel to be used.

dgt

That's still happening to this day. Sprinter van springs to mind

deandean

Spot-on about that E-class. there are also problems with ele trics, glow plugs etc.
But I'd be interested in seeing your 14-year old E34. Must be unique.

Voodoomelon

dgt wrote: »

That's still happening to this day. Sprinter van springs to mind

There's a business next to me and they have a '03 white Sprinter. It is unbelievable how much rust is on it. There couldn't be a single panel that isn't rusted, truly shocking how bad it is!

Dord

The only thing I've noticed is that Metallic painted Mercs seems less affected.

My own is painted in Artic White and while not as bad as the Sprinters, it's got some rust on the arches. I'm taking care of it though and have been doing repairs.

Mycroft H

I remember my dads old W201; they were a solid motorcar, I can not remember a patch of rust on them. Shame the accountants got control of the company afterwords.

ofcork

When you consider the s class w220 of 99 had the same issues for an 80 or 90k car starting its ridiculous.

mike65

If you are after a cheap but sound Merc, summer 1993 is the cut off date. So a w201 or a w124 pre face-lift.

Moneymaker

Mid-late 90s- early 00s Mercs were sheds, pretty much across the board.

power pants

14 year old e34?

unkel

Interestingly enough, the facelift W211 (from some time in '06) is the most reliable car in its class. Glad to see MB has overcome all those quality issues from the recent past.

deandean wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing your 14-year old E34. Must be unique.

power pants wrote: »

14 year old e34?

C'mon lads, OP probably had his E34 until it was 14 years old...

Stavros Murphy

I had a 99 c180 that I killed - engine died. I rolled it over with a track machine to cut off the cat(as you do...)and couldn't believe how rusty it was underneath - absolutely rotten everywhere. It was also plagued with electrical faults as basically, the wiring was b0llox from the start - thin, cheap cable used everywhere. I have avoided Mercs since. People mentioned the sprinters, well what about the Vitos? Have to be the biggest rust-buckets going, they look dreadful even at two-three years old, scabby rust everywhere.

Mycroft H

What about the W140/W220 Mercs? I presume both were free of rust issues being one of the best cars out there?

Old diesel

Mycroft H wrote: »

What about the W140/W220 Mercs? I presume both were free of rust issues being one of the best cars out there?

I think the W220 was the S class bought out in 99 - and yeah as far as I know - and as someones already mentioned - they have the rust issues too.

The W140 came out in 1991 JUST before the cutting costs/accountants designing the cars era at Merc.

Ive always been under the impression that while complex for their time the W140 was old school Merc in terms of quality - or certainly a lot closer to it than the W210 era

Old diesel

Incidentally - what happened with the facelift version of the W124 - Mike 65 alludes to something ive heard before - that the pre facelift W124s were better built than the pre facelift.

Presumably a bit of cost cutting going on - but while ive heard of wings rusting - what else was up.

I presume a 94/95/early 96 W124 is still a much better car then a W210???

Tomas_S

Stallingrad wrote: »

There is a place near me that specialises in breaking Mercs, most notably the W210 E class. I pass it often so I get lots of opportunity to poke around half dissembled cars.

It's common knowledge that these were not Mercs finest in terms of quality, but only when you get to see them in this state you see what a heap of junk they were. Every one has rust everywhere, wings and lower doors are the worst, all over the engine bay and bonnet. I've seen old school, Alfas with less rot. It is remarkable to think that the poor steel/rustproofing was ever deemed acceptable by Mercedes, even with the bean counters obviously at the helm.

Then you think this was the E39 competitor, and you realize just how good that car was, a different planet in terms of quality. My 14 year old E34 was even better again.

Where abouts is this place?

mike65

Old diesel wrote: »

Incidentally - what happened with the facelift version of the W124 - Mike 65 alludes to something ive heard before - that the pre facelift W124s were better built than the pre facelift.

Presumably a bit of cost cutting going on - but while ive heard of wings rusting - what else was up.

I presume a 94/95/early 96 W124 is still a much better car then a W210???

The paint formulation changed - water based and not as hardy, the wiring looms became biodegradable and were a weak point on the 6 pot engines (but not the 4s) and a few other bits and pieces more rot prone - elements in the front suspension/steering links for example. Nothing terminal but needs to be accounted for.

Stallingrad

power pants wrote: »

14 year old e34?

I can see why.

It was 14 years old when I sold it some years ago, but it was rust free and pristine at the time and I have no doubt would have stayed that way with little TLC.

Old diesel

Stallingrad wrote: »

I can see why.

It was 14 years old when I sold it some years ago, but it was rust free and pristine at the time and I have no doubt would have stayed that way with little TLC.

Is it my imagination - or did/do E34s hold/held up well durability wise when minded.

There was a point 2 or 3 years ago - where I noticed that 30 to 40 percent of the early to mid 90s cars I was seeing on the road were E34s - or that's how it seemed.

They certainly didn't account for anything like 30 to 40 percent of the total new car market - or even 3 percent for that matter.

That could however be a local thing with the area I lived in at the time - as said area also had a fair few Laguna IIs running around

Andrew_Doran

E39s rust too, just not as badly. Most have/will be killed by cooling system or autobox failure.

Old diesel

Andrew_Doran wrote: »

E39s rust too, just not as badly. Most have/will be killed by cooling system or autobox failure.

All cars have their faults - but some manufacturers really have dropped the ball with some of their cars. Like this issue with Mercs rusting.

Even with the accountants running the show - it should still have been possible for Mercedes to do A LOT better then this W210 - much cheaper Hondas and Toyotas were able to hold up better for rust then the W210.

Anyway - the overall strengths of the E39 wasn't its reliability - they aren't bad - but its probably one of the weaker areas for the E39 - but its all round ability as a car in terms of driving/comfort and an all round nice machine.

The cooling system issues - okay - yes the E39 has them - but - and im very much open to correction on this - I believe that those can be prevented with good maintenance of cooling system/preventative maintenance if one understands the issues - and takes preventative action.

Of course if an E39 overheats today - and engines gone as a result its going to kill it.

I am of course open to correction on all the above

BTW - auto box issues aren't unique to BMW either imo - I believe even the normally fantastic Honda has had issues with triptronic gearboxes.

Audi aren't exactly coming to town with an awesome auto gearbox reliability record either if im not mistaken

Guy:Incognito

ofcork wrote: »

When you consider the s class w220 of 99 had the same issues for an 80 or 90k car starting its ridiculous.

It probably only has to last 2-3 years at most for the majority of the people that bought them new anyway. They don't concern themselves with the issues of the lowly 2nd hand car buyer :-)

Stallingrad

Old diesel wrote: »

Is it my imagination - or did/do E34s hold/held up well durability wise when minded.

Not your imagination at all. They are not without their faults and some engines were better than others, but they were supremely well engineered and if serviced properly would outlast almost any car on the road. My 14 year old car felt tighter and more solid/rattle free than my 2 year old B7 Passat. BMW and Mercedes were looked in a titanic battle for supremacy in the 80's and 90's and longevity and quality really meant something back then.

unkel

Old diesel wrote: »

There was a point 2 or 3 years ago - where I noticed that 30 to 40 percent of the early to mid 90s cars I was seeing on the road were E34s - or that's how it seemed.

It was a bit longer ago and there were never quite that many, but you're right there were plenty of E34s around some years back. In my opinion it was an over engineered and reliable car, maybe not to the same standard as the early W124, but not far off it

As what happens though when it's successor (E39) was 10 years old in '06 and getting very cheap, the E34s started to disappear fast. Not that they technically expired, just that they were economically end of life

Sold my V8 E34 when it was 10 years old 10 years ago

Old diesel

unkel wrote: »

It was a bit longer ago and there were never quite that many, but you're right there were plenty of E34s around some years back. In my opinion it was an over engineered and reliable car, maybe not to the same standard as the early W124, but not far off it

As what happens though when it's successor (E39) was 10 years old in '06 and getting very cheap, the E34s started to disappear fast. Not that they technically expired, just that they were economically end of life

Sold my V8 E34 when it was 10 years old 10 years ago

Yes - I think in hindsight - 30 to 40 percent was a bit too high

It just seemed that high - because an E34 is the sort of car youd really notice on the road/in a car park. If a 95 Corolla passed by - you wouldn't notice it as much for example.

Think I may have been living in an area where there was a cluster of E34s still on the go.

And yes - certainly - if someone had an E34 needing work in 07 - the tempting option would be to replace it with a newer fresher E39 when one could be got for reasonable money.

rovoagho

The reason you don't see more e34s and other cars of that era is the scrappage scheme, end of story. I drive a 17 year old volvo and it's only broken in, but it's only still on the road because it's a performance variant. My last car was 12 when I sold it, in great nick, one before that was another perfect e34.

The scrappage scheme has an awful lot to answer for. Tossing good cars away to prop up a non-existent "motor industry" and a corrupt and incompetent motor /sales/ industry, in the name of false environmental savings. It was Irish vanity and corruption at its most blatant.

It's great to see some of these cars back on the road now though, in tougher times, presumably having escaped by hiding in mammys and daddys sheds and garages around the country until it was safe to come out.

power pants

unkel wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the facelift W211 (from some time in '06) is the most reliable car in its class. Glad to see MB has overcome all those quality issues from the recent past.





C'mon lads, OP probably had his E34 until it was 14 years old...

I genuinely wasnt thinking straight when I posted this so late last night. Would never have realised what he was meaning then, my mistake

im selling my e34, doesnt have a bit of rust on it, other than needing new tyres is as good now as it was 24 years ago :cool:

probably sell for peanuts though

ofcork

unkel wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the facelift W211 (from some time in '06) is the most reliable car in its class. Glad to see MB has overcome all those quality issues from the recent past.



The W211 when it came out while not having rust issues was apparently plagued with electronic issues.

Old diesel

ofcork wrote: »

unkel wrote: »

Interestingly enough, the facelift W211 (from some time in '06) is the most reliable car in its class. Glad to see MB has overcome all those quality issues from the recent past.



The W211 when it came out while not having rust issues was apparently plagued with electronic issues.

Which im led to believe were fixed in that 06 facelift - or at least vastly improved????

Which may have got it to a point where it is the most reliable car in its class

galwaytt

mike65 wrote: »

The paint formulation changed - water based and not as hardy, the wiring looms became biodegradable and were a weak point on the 6 pot engines (but not the 4s) and a few other bits and pieces more rot prone - elements in the front suspension/steering links for example. Nothing terminal but needs to be accounted for.

^^^^^^This. It's not the steel - it's the paint process.

God be with good ol fashioned solvent based two-pack.

JohnBoy26

galwaytt wrote: »

^^^^^^This. It's not the steel - it's the paint process.

God be with good ol fashioned solvent based two-pack.

I'm not so sure about that. Water base paint alone wouldn't cause the rust issues seen on those mercs.

Poor quality steel had and poor rust protection had to be to blame. Its also said that in an effort to save costs, Mercedes used a stretching process on the steel to get the most out of it. This supposedly made it more porous and as a result more rust prone.

lomb

Were they galvanized? The rust is shocking , Ive seen quite a few 02, 03 cars with shocking levels of rust on the bonnet, wings and arches.
Why did other marques not rust? Surely it must have damaged their reputation and cost them a lot in rust repairs. Have Mercedes commented on it publically?

Dord

lomb wrote: »

Were they galvanized? The rust is shocking , Ive seen quite a few 02, 03 cars with shocking levels of rust on the bonnet, wings and arches.
Why did other marques not rust? Surely it must have damaged their reputation and cost them a lot in rust repairs. Have Mercedes commented on it publically?

Other cars do and did rust. As mentioned, a lot of those would have been put through the scrappage scheme. The Merc's probably avoided it due to being more expensive.

I've seen Opels, Toyotas, BMWs, Fords and many other brands from around that period with rust.

JohnBoy26

Dord wrote: »

Other cars do and did rust. As mentioned, a lot of those would have been put through the scrappage scheme. The Merc's probably avoided it due to being more expensive.

I've seen Opels, Toyotas, BMWs, Fords and many other brands from around that period with rust.

I don't think you did tbh, well not on the same scale as mercs from that era anyway. The only Toyota from that era that had a rust problem was the pre facelift mk1 avensis where many of them suffered rust on the roof panel at 6 or 7 years.

Even that rust though was only confined to the roof panel and didn't effect the rest of the car. It was no where near in the same league as the rust seen on mercs of the time.

Opel and ford, particular ford had poor rust protection on their cars from that period but I still think that the rust they develop wasnt as terrible as that seen on mercs of that era.