Pairing a Suunto Movestick with Edge 800 via Trainerroad

pprendeville

Picked up one these Suunto Movestick Minis after reading DC Rainmakers article. Bought it online here in China on what I deem a reputable site so assuming this is genuine (there was lots of +ve feedback from other buyers). Can anyone help fault-find as to why it won't work.

I'm trying to pair it with a Garmin Edge 800 via Trainerroad. I'm using a Tacx Flow iMagic T1901 but I only see T2200 listed on trainerroad but assume they're a close match. I've switched off the Garmin ANT Agent as per Trainerroad advice but it still doesn't pick up the ANT+ stick. It will pick up the my HR strap and the speed/cadence sensor alright. Actually, another question, my Edge 800 doesn't give a speed readout when I use it indoors on a turbo despite turning off the GPS and setting the wheel size to 2096mm (have also tried using the manual wheel size but this is for outdoors only I believe). Will this be a problem? Is this needed for the Virtual Power?

I'm using a Macbook from 2008. I don't see the Movestick listed as being plugged into the USB port. Should this show up? I have emailed Suunto support.



Edit: I should think before I type. Just copped on that the Movestick is the reason Trainerroad is picking my HR and cadence. How will it pick up power now (virtual Power) if I don't have a speed readout?

Inquitus

Phil, Yes this should show up, unfortunately I don't know **** about Macs, but on a Windows PC it would have detected it when it was plugged in and download the appropriate driver, in this case the default Ant+ 2 Usb Stick one.

Try a different USB port, and does mac have an equivalent of device manager where you can see if its detected or not?

Inquitus

You need a Speed and Cadence sensor for it to calculate virtual power, if you only have a cadence sensor then it won't be able to. Do you have a GSC10?

pprendeville

Ok, just to clarify, it is picking up HR and cadence but not speed. Should I be pairing as "ANT+ Device" or "HR Monitor and Speed and Cadence Sensor".

Yes, have the GSC10 but for some reason my speed output never shows up on my Garmin when training indoors on the turbo. Don't know how to sort that out. Have checked a few threads on the garmin forums but to no avail. Tried switching off GPS.

jinkypolly

Just to be clear TrainerRoad is not using the Edge 800, it doesn't need it, you can even switch it off. All it needs is a turbo, a speed/cadence sensor and a Ant+ USB for your laptop/computer

Inquitus

pprendeville wrote: »

Yes, have the GSC10 but for some reason my speed output never shows up on my Garmin when training indoors on the turbo. Don't know how to sort that out. Have checked a few threads on the garmin forums but to no avail. Tried switching off GPS.

Edit : Do what the man above says, you can dl your session from TR after and upload them to Strava or any other site, no need to complicate things with the edge 800.

Once the GSC10 is detected in that screen you should be able to turn the pedals and see Cadence and Speed being shown.

Ryath

Try pressing the reset button on the gsc10 and see if the wheel magnet causes the light to blink when it passes may be that magnet is not passing close enough or sensor is dodgy. Trainer road needs the wheel speed to calculate power.

redved

I would say that because it has picked up the HR and speed cadence sensor on trainer road that the usb ant stick is working?

try go without the Garmin 800 for now as you do not need that for trainerroad. You can pair this separately later

Inquitus

As an aside my GSC10 is bolloxed and only picks up cadence......check to see if the green light registers each wheel revolution, if you only get the red light for the cadence sensor yours could be fooked too.

pprendeville

Cadence magnet causes a red light flash but NO green light flashing when the spoke magnet passes so it must be just the arm on the GSC10 thats ballsocked. Here's is a good thread explaining it as well. Looks like a new sensor is what I need so, albeit maybe just the arm of the GSC10. Unlikely to get that on its lonesome.

EDIT: Does it have to be a GSC10 I get or can it be another ANT+ compatible Speed and Cadence combined sensor? If so what are the other options. Seems like this is a quite a common problem maybe from the spoke magnet hitting the GSC10 arm?? Has happened me a few times.

Inquitus

Any Ant+ sensor will do fine.

pprendeville

Will have to break the news to the wife so and tell her an SRM is what I need.

redved

any Ant+ speed cadence sensor will do. Do you know any with one that you could swap out to see if it works with theirs

pprendeville

Unfortuntely not nearby. Majority of riders here don't have the Garmins, usually just a speedo. Just ordered a GSC10 online so hopefully it will solve the problem. Cheers for all the replies.

pprendeville

Got this reply from Suunto:

"In regards to your situation, please be advised that the Suunto Movesctick Mini is based on the ANT technology which totally differs from the ANT+ technology used by Garmin. The Movestick Mini is therefore not compatible with any ANT+ based devices manufactured by 3rd party companies. We are sorry for the inconvenience. Should you have any other questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again."

In contrast, it does pick up my HR and cadence (hopefully speed as well once I get the new GSC10). Maybe they're just covering themselves?

jinkypolly

I use the Suunto Movestick Mini with TrainerRoad and have absolutely no issues with it picking up HR and speed/cadence and works great with the TR software.

redved

jinkypolly wrote: »

I use the Suunto Movestick Mini with TrainerRoad and have absolutely no issues with it picking up HR and speed/cadence and works great with the TR software.

+1 exact same set up I have and no issues

Inquitus

Aye Phil it installs as an an Ant+ 2 USB Stick, Suunto are full of shít!

pprendeville

It was indeed the arm on the GSC10 that was the problem. VP now working on TR, only it's about 20W lower than what the Tacx is saying. might make me push harder.

Inquitus

pprendeville wrote: »

It was indeed the arm on the GSC10 that was the problem. VP now working on TR, only it's about 20W lower than what the Tacx is saying. might make me push harder.

All you need is consistent numbers, do the TR FTP test and work off that, also make sure you warm up the trainer for 10 mins and calibrate before stsarting, or pause at the end of the TR session warmup and briefly do same.

doozerie

pprendeville wrote: »

VP now working on TR, only it's about 20W lower than what the Tacx is saying. might make me push harder.

I have a Tacx Flow too (not the iMagic) and the readout from it is consistently higher than that from TrainerRoad and from my Powertap when I used it on the turbo at one point. From everything I've read online, the Tacx turbos don't give accurate power figures at all, though many people find them consistent at least.

For TrainerRoad, I need to use a very specific device from their supported list. I use "(Beta) Tacx Flow 2% [Quarq]", and I have to set the resistance on my turbo to +2 (and leave it at that for the duration of the session). I tested the accuracy of this against my Powertap once several months back and with that setup TrainerRoad produced power figures which almost exactly matched what my Powertap reported (to my Garmin) throughout the entire workout. I've not done that test since, and there have been several TrainerRoad software updates since, but I've no reason to believe that the reliability of that setup has changed.

I don't know how the iMagic differs from the Flow that I have, but if the turbo hardware itself is the same then that device above should work for your setup too, with the same resistance setting on your turbo.

Ryath

Have been using a Cycelops Fluid2 Turbo with Trainerroad doesn't have the exact model listed but I think it slightly underestimates my power or I may be just be telling myself that to feel better about my pathetic figures. When I first set it up I picked a different cyclops model and had no problem holding 400watts One disadvantage of the cyclops fluid is that power profile changes as it heat's up can't say I've noticed but it probably only marginal.

Only had the loan of that while my brother was away traveling so just had to buy a new one. Was just going to get another Fluid2 I like it, it's quite, easy to set up and offers as much resistance as I'll ever need. Managed to get a good deal on a Kurt Kinetic road machine though which is trainer roads recommended option as the resistance doesn't change as it heats up. And most importantly my 6 year old daughter said the new one is a much nicer colour.:)

Haven't used it yet but hopefully my figures are a little higher on it!

doozerie

@Ryath, I'd be interested to hear how you find the Kurt Kinetic versus the Cycleops. The recommendation of the Kurt by TrainerRoad makes it appealing, but I'm wondering whether it has other strong selling points too.

One thing that I find tedious with my Tacx is the need to calibrate it before each workout - I ride it for 5mins (which is perhaps not even enough really) and then spend a few more minutes adjusting the screw tension when needed until calibration testing returns a zero. Overall it adds 10mins or so to a 1hr workout, which can feel like a lot when you are trying to squeeze a turbo session into an evening which is very short after parenting responsibilities are accounted for. I've actually been questioning the value of this calibration process recently since the reported calibration figure consistently drops closer and closer to the desired zero if you simply test repeatedly without adjusting the tension at all - this leaves me wondering whether the calibration testing itself is more effective at warming up the turbo than the 5min ride at the start, but more significantly it leaves me wondering about the accuracy/reliability of the calibration process. Which reminds me, I must put my Powertap on the turbo again soon for another comparison test because whatever about the reliability of TrainerRoad software (which I actually have no concerns about) I wonder whether the turbo itself has become less reliable over time.

I wonder whether using the Kurt Kinetic is simpler and less fiddly? This is a bit of a tangent from the thread, sorry pprendeville.

Ryath

Trainerroads recommendation was one of the main reasons I chose it and turbos with fluid resistance are probably the most durable. As I said I haven't used it yet but setting up was less fiddly than the cycleops. It is slightly wider and feels more solid but actually fold up flatter. They both are big heavy lumps of metal though certainly a lot more effort to move than most tacx. That's a plus to me though won't be moving it to often.

Kurt Kinetics own power computer includes a roll down to calibrate Trainerroad are supposedly looking at adding this as well. Certainly handier than having to get of and adjust the tension.

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/kinetic-wireless-power-computer-p-151-l-en.html
http://blog.trainerroad.com/kurt-kinetic-power-curve-virtualpower/

Not to worried about the accuracy though just that it is consistent as you know. Just use same tyre pressure and setting the resistance with the same number of turns. Cyclops was at an advantage here as it had a lever while the KK has a knob that you set between 3-5 turns once it touches the tire. Calibrating should not be necessary then once you are consistent with set up as the kurt kinetics resistance is not meant to change with temperature.

Will hopefully get a powermeter later in the year once I see how the finances are after my current spending spree so can verify the accuracy then.

pprendeville

doozerie wrote: »

@Ryath, I'd be interested to hear how you find the Kurt Kinetic versus the Cycleops. The recommendation of the Kurt by TrainerRoad makes it appealing, but I'm wondering whether it has other strong selling points too.

One thing that I find tedious with my Tacx is the need to calibrate it before each workout - I ride it for 5mins (which is perhaps not even enough really) and then spend a few more minutes adjusting the screw tension when needed until calibration testing returns a zero. Overall it adds 10mins or so to a 1hr workout, which can feel like a lot when you are trying to squeeze a turbo session into an evening which is very short after parenting responsibilities are accounted for. I've actually been questioning the value of this calibration process recently since the reported calibration figure consistently drops closer and closer to the desired zero if you simply test repeatedly without adjusting the tension at all - this leaves me wondering whether the calibration testing itself is more effective at warming up the turbo than the 5min ride at the start, but more significantly it leaves me wondering about the accuracy/reliability of the calibration process. Which reminds me, I must put my Powertap on the turbo again soon for another comparison test because whatever about the reliability of TrainerRoad software (which I actually have no concerns about) I wonder whether the turbo itself has become less reliable over time.

I wonder whether using the Kurt Kinetic is simpler and less fiddly? This is a bit of a tangent from the thread, sorry pprendeville.

No problem, I hear you on the parenting issues. Add changing, showering, maybe uploading workout to TP or Strava and it is a time consuming process alright. If I had my way I'd get a Wahoo Kickr myself but it's a small fortune. Currently holding out on Brim Brothers and seeing what they weigh in with in terms of pricing.

Inquitus

pprendeville wrote: »

No problem, I hear you on the parenting issues. Add changing, showering, maybe uploading workout to TP or Strava and it is a time consuming process alright. If I had my way I'd get a Wahoo Kickr myself but it's a small fortune. Currently holding out on Brim Brothers and seeing what they weigh in with in terms of pricing.

Aye the Wahoo Kickr is definitely where its at, sadly its north of a grand, Powertap + Turbo works better for me as I can use it on the road and on the turbo, involves a bit of messing taking the bike on and off the Turbo all the time mind.

doozerie

Yeah, the Kickr looks great. I sometimes wonder whether I'm really pushing myself hard enough on the turbo but with a Kickr being controlled by TrainerRoad I reckon there would be no place for me to hide! I see that Team Sky have switched to the Kickr this year too - that might raise its profile enough to lead to wider availability and better pricing, or it might be used to justify a higher price for a product endorsed by the "might" of Sky.

I also agree though that it's worth waiting to see what Brim Brothers have to offer. If their price was reasonable I'd consider selling my Powertap to fund the Brim Brothers meter instead and then my choice of turbo trainer is no longer a factor in terms of reliability and convenience.

pprendeville

Just remember they will be starting off on Speeplay pedals so that's an extra investment if you don't already own them.

pprendeville

Just remember they will be starting off on Speedplay pedals so that's an extra investment if you don't already own them.

Posted twice and still managed to get the spelling wrong. Doh.

doozerie

I have Speedplay already but I'll also be interested to see if they offer their meter for any other pedals too in the near future (I wouldn't be sorry to say goodbye to Speedplay's bearings!).

pprendeville

Which Speedplay's are you using?