Vegetarianism as a symptom of another illness?

chinacup

Hi guys,
I've read from tit-bits of information that vegetarianism can be a symptom of something else going on in the body. For eg from Natasha Campbell McBride GAPS book and another website referencing too much of the bad e choli in the gut causing it. Does anyone have some concrete research on this?

Peanut

Sounds like a bizarre generalisation. I'm not sure why someone would single out vegetarianism as a symptom of some underlying digestive imbalance as opposed to symptomatically eating too much meat or eating too many sweet things, or having (or not having) a preference for spicy food, or any other dietary preference you could think of.

There was a study involving probiotics and brain activity which suggested a mental influence after altering gut bacteria, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/805012. It doesn't appear to rule in or rule out whether this change in the digestive system might alter diet though.

I guess if you really wanted to investigate the scope of this influence, you'd be better off looking for primate or other animal studies where there is less scope for personal choice in diet and perhaps a stronger case to be made for symbiotic types of relationships between gut bacteria and the animal in question.

I doubt though that someone could strongly make the case that "bad ecoli" is a significant factor for vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets in numerous (healthy) animals. Temporary changes in diet due to upset stomachs etc. seems a lot more likely compared to long-term changes.

In an interview online, Dr Campbell-McBride claims that the nutritional benefits of plant-eating is restricted to the fact that only ruminant animals are able to fully digest their food, yet she doesn't account for the array of non-ruminant herbivores, never mind the fact that a typical vegetarian/herbivorous diet is going to be much broader than that of a pure ruminant. How much grass does the typical vegetarian eat in a day anyway?!

Difficult to take people like that seriously when she comes out with gems like this,

If you don‟t want to produce sex hormones, if you want to be infertile, and if you don‟t
want to have any sexual desire, then the vegan diet is the right diet that you should
follow.

Sorry vegans, you can't have children due to lack of sex hormones..

henryporter

Peanut wrote: »

Sounds like a bizarre generalisation. I'm not sure why someone would single out vegetarianism as a symptom of some underlying digestive imbalance as opposed to symptomatically eating too much meat or eating too many sweet things, or having (or not having) a preference for spicy food, or any other dietary preference you could think of.

There was a study involving probiotics and brain activity which suggested a mental influence after altering gut bacteria, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/805012. It doesn't appear to rule in or rule out whether this change in the digestive system might alter diet though.

I guess if you really wanted to investigate the scope of this influence, you'd be better off looking for primate or other animal studies where there is less scope for personal choice in diet and perhaps a stronger case to be made for symbiotic types of relationships between gut bacteria and the animal in question.

I doubt though that someone could strongly make the case that "bad ecoli" is a significant factor for vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets in numerous (healthy) animals. Temporary changes in diet due to upset stomachs etc. seems a lot more likely compared to long-term changes.

In an interview online, Dr Campbell-McBride claims that the nutritional benefits of plant-eating is restricted to the fact that only ruminant animals are able to fully digest their food, yet she doesn't account for the array of non-ruminant herbivores, never mind the fact that a typical vegetarian/herbivorous diet is going to be much broader than that of a pure ruminant. How much grass does the typical vegetarian eat in a day anyway?!

Difficult to take people like that seriously when she comes out with gems like this,


Sorry vegans, you can't have children due to lack of sex hormones..

Dr Natasha Campbell McBride sounds like a bit of a twat TBH

chinacup

Peanut wrote: »

Sounds like a bizarre generalisation. I'm not sure why someone would single out vegetarianism as a symptom of some underlying digestive imbalance as opposed to symptomatically eating too much meat or eating too many sweet things, or having (or not having) a preference for spicy food, or any other dietary preference you could think of.

There was a study involving probiotics and brain activity which suggested a mental influence after altering gut bacteria, http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/805012. It doesn't appear to rule in or rule out whether this change in the digestive system might alter diet though.

I guess if you really wanted to investigate the scope of this influence, you'd be better off looking for primate or other animal studies where there is less scope for personal choice in diet and perhaps a stronger case to be made for symbiotic types of relationships between gut bacteria and the animal in question.

I doubt though that someone could strongly make the case that "bad ecoli" is a significant factor for vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets in numerous (healthy) animals. Temporary changes in diet due to upset stomachs etc. seems a lot more likely compared to long-term changes.

In an interview online, Dr Campbell-McBride claims that the nutritional benefits of plant-eating is restricted to the fact that only ruminant animals are able to fully digest their food, yet she doesn't account for the array of non-ruminant herbivores, never mind the fact that a typical vegetarian/herbivorous diet is going to be much broader than that of a pure ruminant. How much grass does the typical vegetarian eat in a day anyway?!

Difficult to take people like that seriously when she comes out with gems like this,


Sorry vegans, you can't have children due to lack of sex hormones..

I wasn't singling out vegetarianism for any other reason other than that I'm trying to figure out my own reasons for going veg as it happened very fast and wasn't really something I'd been thinking about doing. It was just like a sudden revulsion that didn't go away. As well as that it was during leaving cert year and I was eating crap for years before that so gut flora imbalance resonated with me. I'm sure there are plenty of medical reasons for craving meat and sugary foods but that's not what my issue was.

Just recently did a holistic health and nutrition course where the teacher was raving about Natasha Cambpell McBride as she is a neuroscientist but you've given me food for thought here, I guess I have more research to do!

I was just looking to see did anyone else come across that theory though, whether they'd looked into it more and could provide some links.

strandroad

arf91 wrote: »

Just recently did a holistic health and nutrition course where the teacher was raving about Natasha Cambpell McBride as she is a neuroscientist but you've given me food for thought here, I guess I have more research to do!

She's a quack who claims to be able to cure autism (!) with her diet. Junk science, stay away. I would doubt the credentials of your course teacher too if they rave about her. Holistic health does not equal quackery...

Peanut

arf91 wrote: »

I wasn't singling out vegetarianism for any other reason other than that I'm trying to figure out my own reasons for going veg as it happened very fast and wasn't really something I'd been thinking about doing. It was just like a sudden revulsion that didn't go away. As well as that it was during leaving cert year and I was eating crap for years before that so gut flora imbalance resonated with me. I'm sure there are plenty of medical reasons for craving meat and sugary foods but that's not what my issue was.

It's interesting, before I became veg. I used to ask for burgers etc. without any dressing.

Seems like I had much the same experience as you, as a young teenager I just started feeling repulsed by the idea of eating meat over the course of a year or two. Not so much the moral question, but the pure physicality of the smell and texture, and only after that, the needlessness of eating animals for food.

If I had to give a reason, I would say it's just part of the normal process of development when you're around that age, in the sense that you more clearly grow into your own personality, and likes and dislikes, compared to childhood. Perhaps it was a reaction to eating too much junk, or maybe a refinement of an underlying characteristic that hadn't surfaced beforehand, or even a combination of both.

But who's to say that there isn't some link between those bacteria and diet. I think this author probably picked up on something that has a grain of truth in it, but embellished it towards her own agenda and un-objectively promoting her particular viewpoint.

I think trying to look to a 3rd party for something like this probably won't get you much extra information, compared to experimentation

What you could try to do is take some probiotics or something similar for a while, and see if you notice any change yourself.

I don't think it will especially make you want to eat meat. But it could be interesting all the same - I find things like miso soup can feel quite nutritious. Also, here in Turkey there's a fermented vegan drink 'Boza' which is very interesting in a similar way.

--LOS--

ermmm are you sure you're phrasing that right? I'm failing to see how vegetarianism is a symptom? it's a choice. Am I the only one who's lost here?

chinacup

--LOS-- wrote: »

ermmm are you sure you're phrasing that right? I'm failing to see how vegetarianism is a symptom? it's a choice. Am I the only one who's lost here?

Ya as in problems with the gut flora cause you to be repulsed by meat. So in a way vegetarianism is a symptom of that.

chinacup

--LOS-- wrote: »

ermmm are you sure you're phrasing that right? I'm failing to see how vegetarianism is a symptom? it's a choice. Am I the only one who's lost here?

That's what I'm pondering anways.

--LOS--

arf91 wrote: »

Ya as in problems with the gut flora cause you to be repulsed by meat. So in a way vegetarianism is a symptom of that.

I still fail to see how vegetarianism is a symptom since it's a very conscious choice, one that is only partly to do with food, vegetarianism is not a diet.


I think the whole cross-over between 'health and nutrition' and 'vegan and vegetarian' is a big problem on boards, partly to blame from the forum being placed under 'food and drink'. It leads to a lot of confusing ideas like your one, but the fact is not eating meat/being repulsed by meat does not make you a vegetarian or vegan. I encounter this confusion in every day life all the time, I met someone the other day who tried to relate to me by saying they're 'vegetarian but they eat fish', no that is misuse of the word! It's really not just a food thing, it extends to all areas of your life from the less obvious animal-derived food ingredients to the clothing you wear to the products (non-food) you use, to the avoidance of things like circuses, greyhound racing etc to name just a few examples.

Sorry to keep editing but I really want to point out that I actually find it insulting that my decision to reject animal slavery could be viewed as some kind of illness, that makes me sound mental, which is only reinforcing that view people have of veggies/vegan as being sorta 'out-there'.

chinacup

--LOS-- wrote: »

I still fail to see how vegetarianism is a symptom since it's a very conscious choice, one that is only partly to do with food, vegetarianism is not a diet.


I think the whole cross-over between 'health and nutrition' and 'vegan and vegetarian' is a big problem on boards, partly to blame from the forum being placed under 'food and drink'. It leads to a lot of confusing ideas like your one, but the fact is not eating meat/being repulsed by meat does not make you a vegetarian or vegan. I encounter this confusion in every day life all the time, I met someone the other day who tried to relate to me by saying they're 'vegetarian but they eat fish', no that is misuse of the word! It's really not just a food thing, it extends to all areas of your life from the less obvious animal-derived food ingredients to the clothing you wear to the products (non-food) you use, to the avoidance of things like circuses, greyhound racing etc to name just a few examples.

Sorry to keep editing but I really want to point out that I actually find it insulting that my decision to reject animal slavery could be viewed as some kind of illness, that makes me sound mental, which is only reinforcing that view people have of veggies/vegan as being sorta 'out-there'.

Ok I wasn't insulting your vegetarianism though I was just questioning my own. And its more complex than just being repulsed by meat, the moral thoughts came after/with the repulsion so its a sort of chicken and egg scenario. In fairness it has nothing to do with it being in the food or drink section, I didn't even realise it was until you said that. And why shouldn't there be topics other than moral implications discussed? Vegetarianism isn't just for people who choose not to eat meat because of moral reasons.

DonnieScribbles

--LOS-- wrote: »

I still fail to see how vegetarianism is a symptom since it's a very conscious choice, one that is only partly to do with food, vegetarianism is not a diet.


I think the whole cross-over between 'health and nutrition' and 'vegan and vegetarian' is a big problem on boards, partly to blame from the forum being placed under 'food and drink'. It leads to a lot of confusing ideas like your one, but the fact is not eating meat/being repulsed by meat does not make you a vegetarian or vegan. I encounter this confusion in every day life all the time, I met someone the other day who tried to relate to me by saying they're 'vegetarian but they eat fish', no that is misuse of the word! It's really not just a food thing, it extends to all areas of your life from the less obvious animal-derived food ingredients to the clothing you wear to the products (non-food) you use, to the avoidance of things like circuses, greyhound racing etc to name just a few examples.

Sorry to keep editing but I really want to point out that I actually find it insulting that my decision to reject animal slavery could be viewed as some kind of illness, that makes me sound mental, which is only reinforcing that view people have of veggies/vegan as being sorta 'out-there'.

But it is though, at its basic level. I guess your saying its more of a lifestyle thing, but I think that's down to the individual how far they take it. If a vegetarian told me they were going to the circus I wouldn't start to question their 'devotion to the cause' or anything - because it's a food choice. They might just not like meat or something. If someone was telling me how invested they are in campaigning for animal rights then told me they were going to the circus then, yes, that might be a bit hypocritical. The ethical and dietary aspects don't always go hand in hand. But as I said, it's down to the individual. The vegetarian who eats fish, yes that's an error with terminology, but otherwise...

I agree though that it is a conscious choice, though I think it's the way it's phrased in the OP that makes it sound a bit bizarre. I've never really considered that there could be some physiological reason for randomly becoming uninterested in eating meat but I guess it's possible.

blatantrereg

Nonsense quackery.

TheOrangeTale

arf91 wrote: »

Hi guys,
I've read from tit-bits of information that vegetarianism can be a symptom of something else going on in the body. For eg from Natasha Campbell McBride GAPS book and another website referencing too much of the bad e choli in the gut causing it. Does anyone have some concrete research on this?

I have had to become vegan/vegetarian due to my stomach problems which I have been experiencing over the past year and a half. Eating veges and gluten free and dairy free stuff is the only food i can eat as the rest gives me bad cramps, bad indigestion and nausea. I have been tested for the e-choli bacteria but it is not due to that. I am still being tested. I love all kinds of food & didn't choose becoming a vegan/vegetarian by my own choice, so I say it can be.
I can't complain though as eating healthy makes me feel much better overall and plus it seems to be less expensive and as well as that you can grow your own vegetables, all you need is the effort and time

New Home

Loss of appetite for meat is listed as one of the symptoms for stomach cancer. That does not mean that it's the only reason someone would go off eating meat...