Startup app. what to do?

beaner92

I had an idea a little while ago for a startup ( a company that creates specific apps to make human life easier) and i went along with it ,but i lacked the knowledge to code and create a working app, so I went on elance and outsourced a developer in india. (if i had used a developer here would cost me thousands upon thousands were as i spent very little )

on Friday we received approval from apple to launch the app. (android coming soon :cool: )

I cant help but feel legally open with regards to patents and trademarks and registering my company. Can any one advise me on what to do please?

Also the app is free to download and has the potential to be used anywhere in the world .

And because it is free and i do not intend to promote ads, we will need to secure investors and funding. Can anyone give me advice on what to do please?

Thank you.

OU812

if you have a free app & it's not ad supported, you're essentially going to make a loss on it. Unless you're using the freemium model where you have a free app that has in app purchases available??

No investor is going to get behind that unless you have something spectacular which is likely to be bought out in the near to medium future.

Patents & trademarks are expensive if you want them for all over the world, and a patent search now could result in you finding out someone's already got it registered (may not have gone ahead with it, but own the patent). Unfortunately there's very little you as a small time developer can do.

Would you post a link to the app ?

The Corinthian

beaner92 wrote: »

And because it is free and i do not intend to promote ads, we will need to secure investors and funding. Can anyone give me advice on what to do please?

If you had a bit of spare cash and someone else came to you with your app, would you invest your money in it?

In essence, you need to forget that this is your app, your baby, and thing from the mindset of someone who wants to put their money into something, minimize risk and maximize return. Emotionally, detach yourself from it.

Once you do, where does your app stand? Would you invest in it?

I've dealt with investors a lot, over the years, largely helping start-ups get to the point where they can get their first few tranches of money, and what it comes down to is essentially the above and the ability to communicate the above.

So the first thing to do is to review your business and revenue model. Do you even have one, for example? If your app is free of cost and advertising, how's it going to make a return for investors? Planning on being bought out won't cut it, because that's a horrifically speculative long game. So first of all you need to turn your app into a business, because at the end of the day, that's what investors invest in; businesses, not apps, widgets and gizmos.

Then you need a plan. This is where you are today. Where to you plan to be in two years time? For example, what will be your projected user base? How will you get that projected user base? And are your projections and proposed strategies to achieve them believable? The last bit is important, as you'd be surprised how many business plans are clearly identified as being full of shìt once examined by a decent analyst.

Things like having the right resources (staff) on-board can make all the difference to the credibility of a venture, BTW.

And finally, once you have the above, you need to package it in a way that properly communicates the opportunity of your venture to a potential investor. I'll often recommend the use of (even smoke-and-mirrors) prototypes, but you've already the app itself to showcase, which is good. Naturally, you'll also want to produce presentations, financial projections and the all important business plan.

After that, it's a question of knocking on doors. Personally, I'd avoid Irish investors and look to the UK, Germany, the Netherlands or Switzerland, as they give better deals and are more open to ideas.

OU812

Excellent advice above

superman28

Can you post a link to the app?

Also, how did you find working on elance? I have alot of experince developing and releasing apps but am curious about outsourcing my next big project, I will be giving very specific instrucions on building the app, but I wonder how you managed with no tech knowledge on this?

best of luck

jimmii

Superb post above not just for this OP but for practically ever thread posted like this in any field.

beaner92

OU812 wrote: »

if you have a free app & it's not ad supported, you're essentially going to make a loss on it. Unless you're using the freemium model where you have a free app that has in app purchases available??

No investor is going to get behind that unless you have something spectacular which is likely to be bought out in the near to medium future.

Patents & trademarks are expensive if you want them for all over the world, and a patent search now could result in you finding out someone's already got it registered (may not have gone ahead with it, but own the patent). Unfortunately there's very little you as a small time developer can do.

Would you post a link to the app ?

Thanks for commenting , i will post it once it on launch date (PM'd) . Sorry I wasnt clear earlier, i do intend to charge for the app. There is 2 parties for the app, the normal everyday guy and the business owner . For the first year no one pays a thing . after the first year the business owner pays a subcription fee of 100e pm or 10euro per month .

Il post a link to the app after the launch

beaner92

The Corinthian wrote: »

If you had a bit of spare cash and someone else came to you with your app, would you invest your money in it?

In essence, you need to forget that this is your app, your baby, and thing from the mindset of someone who wants to put their money into something, minimize risk and maximize return. Emotionally, detach yourself from it.

Once you do, where does your app stand? Would you invest in it?

I've dealt with investors a lot, over the years, largely helping start-ups get to the point where they can get their first few tranches of money, and what it comes down to is essentially the above and the ability to communicate the above.

So the first thing to do is to review your business and revenue model. Do you even have one, for example? If your app is free of cost and advertising, how's it going to make a return for investors? Planning on being bought out won't cut it, because that's a horrifically speculative long game. So first of all you need to turn your app into a business, because at the end of the day, that's what investors invest in; businesses, not apps, widgets and gizmos.

Then you need a plan. This is where you are today. Where to you plan to be in two years time? For example, what will be your projected user base? How will you get that projected user base? And are your projections and proposed strategies to achieve them believable? The last bit is important, as you'd be surprised how many business plans are clearly identified as being full of shìt once examined by a decent analyst.

Things like having the right resources (staff) on-board can make all the difference to the credibility of a venture, BTW.

And finally, once you have the above, you need to package it in a way that properly communicates the opportunity of your venture to a potential investor. I'll often recommend the use of (even smoke-and-mirrors) prototypes, but you've already the app itself to showcase, which is good. Naturally, you'll also want to produce presentations, financial projections and the all important business plan.

After that, it's a question of knocking on doors. Personally, I'd avoid Irish investors and look to the UK, Germany, the Netherlands or Switzerland, as they give better deals and are more open to ideas.

Really appreciate the post . Can you give me any tips on the business plan? , i feel I might have ignored a few things . And also how would I go about finding investors abroad? . So far its been my own cash and a few friends that have helped promoting here and there .

The Corinthian

beaner92 wrote: »

Really appreciate the post . Can you give me any tips on the business plan? , i feel I might have ignored a few things . And also how would I go about finding investors abroad? . So far its been my own cash and a few friends that have helped promoting here and there .

As I responded in my PM to you, it comes down to you, at this stage, researching how to put together a business plan or where to find investors on your own, or hiring someone to do so for you.

The above was meant as a top level 'introduction' to point you in the right direction - asking for something like "tips on the business plan" is impossible to answer in many respects, because it's such a wide area and unless you're more specific I could write a book in response - and with all due respects, I'd want to get paid for that.

As I said, approach it from the point of view of selling your business (not product) to a potential investor. Consider what you would need to do that. Then start Googling.

Buttercake

You can't patent an app. Whatsapp isn't patented yet facebook bought it for billions. if you think it's going to be the next big thing, be prepared for it to be copied and get it to market first. It's all about engagement with customers, your app must be engaging for it to be worth anything.

As said before, you won't find investors who will give cash for something that doesn't make money. What we read in the papers regarding XYZ app getting €1mill funding etc, there is a lot more behind the scenes and going on to secure those funds, we just hear the fluffy stories.

Fair play on getting it this far, all you need is for everyone to be using it!!

ambro25

Buttercake wrote: »

You can't patent an app.

Incorrect. Seriously so. Software patenting is challenging, but far, far from impossible. Particularly in the US.

Buttercake wrote: »

As said before, you won't find investors who will give cash for something that doesn't make money.

You won't find (serious) investors, if your "house of IP" is not in good order either.

That does not necessarily mean pending patents. But a patenting impossibility in Europe (for case law/practice reasons) absolutely does not equal a corresponding impossibility in the US - and if your investors are US, they'll expect to see something pending there as a matter of course before they part with $.

As regards WhatsApp and "no patents", some brief suggested reading.

Start with this:
http://stephenvandulken.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/whatsapp-and-patents.html

Follow up with this:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio;jsessionid=507989C507BA6C53F39C7D4AECE52F5C.espacenet_levelx_prod_2?CC=US&NR=2012294352A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20121122&DB=&locale=en_EP

@ OP: as usual for a startup, you're starting to look at IP now, like the proverbial fifth wheel of the carriage, far too late in terms of useful timescales to get your IP in order safely (i.e. correctly/validly) and cheaply. Not so much a criticism as a professional life-long lament. Notwithstanding any aspect of your App that might be patentable, the problems which I would fully expect you to face are at least:

(i) entitlement: the *actual* inventor is first entitled to apply, so is that you? or the Indian coder? or worse (from a business PoV) both? This is a question of fact and law, not what you *think* is right or equitable or should be. Complicated by the several jurisdicitions involved (and their respective patent legislations), the potential lack of IP ownership-specific clauses of the commissioning contract (there was a contract...right?), and the further jurisdictions you may want to seek patent protection in, in due course (e.g. the US is a complete and utter nightmare to deal with, if your Indian coder is an or the inventor, and he won't sign paperwork if/as/when. Potentially, a mid- to high- 4 figures nighmare to sort).

(ii) timescale: if your App is on the market now, it's most probably too late to get valid patent rights, except maybe for the US, because the subject-matter has been disclosed (a 'sale' counts as a disclosure, regardless of whether free or not). Novelty search + (conditional on search results-) drafting & tweaking a(n even semi-)decent software patent spec + filing it as a priority app in Ireland or the UK = a week and a bit at drop-everything-full-steam-ahead.

The list goes on. Not to scare you, but for educational value for any readers - think about and factor IP early (or discard entirely and make your business peace with it), and the potential problems and costs evaporate.