Setter recall

NewStart!

Hi Everyone , I am a long term lurker first time poster in this section.
I am looking for some advice to do with my setter and maybe some recommendations of trainers in the Tipperary area.

Theo is a Lwellen setter pup that I have had since November gotten as a rescue. The problem is that he doesn't seem to listen to me at all and his recall is not existent and he has a take it or leave it attitude ( this is the best way I can explain it ). He is around 6/7 months of age and lives with my my boyfriend my Pomeranian ( whos just coming 2 years old and Ive had him since he was 8 weeks he was a pound puppy) and my housemates.

He gets a half hour to a hour walk everyday and usually a 3/4 hour hike on the weekend and a hour or two walk on the beach on sunday, but unlike the pom he cant be left off lead. He is walked on a long flexi lead and a harness but pays no attention to me when he is on the lead, no food , treats or calling can even get him to look at me and I know if I left him off id never see him again. When hes on the lead if he sees a bird hes mad to take off after it with his head in the air and i don't think he would ever stop.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get him to listen to me or to get him to come when hes called, Ive been practicing in the garden trying to get him to come to me but again sometimes he will sometimes he wont. Or anyway to get him to stop dragging me around the place ? Any type of collar I was told to get a choke collar chain but I think that he would just pull so much that he would choke himself

He is very good and does listen more when he is in the house with me so hes not all bad

Hope someone can offer some advice

tk123

I'd loose the flexi for starters as it's only adding to him pulling and get a front attach harness (there's loads of threads on them). Have you done any training classes with him - it might help build a bond with him and get him used to paying attention to you?

borderlinemeath

You're right not to go with the choke chain for starters. A front attach harness like TK said will lessen the pulling. You can get long training leads but flexi leads aren't great, the dog thinks he has freedom, the next thing he takes off and jerks to the end of the flexi, he gets a jolt, and you get your arm pulled out of it's socket, that's if you can hold onto it! They can be really dangerous on roads, or even causing injury if they wind around your leg and you get a rope burn with them.

To work on his recall, firstly you'll need to find his motivation. How about squeaky toys? Or if he's bird crazy, how about a duck whistle? I have 2 setters and when they're out food is not a motivation at all, at home it works with one of them but the promise of a run in the fields will make him spit out a treat!
When you find his motivation and he returns to you, shower him with praise, and try a high value treat such as chicken or cheese. It's all about the dog associating going back for something good, if you're calling and there's nothing to come back for, sure why would he? That's how he sees it . Make it really worth his while and every time he comes back he gets the goodies. You have to try in the garden first but is there anywhere secure that you could use to work while he's out? Are you near any dog parks or anything like that?

My older setter had 'questionable' recall when she was younger, we would let her run off lead in fields or on the beach and the only way to get her back would be to jump up and down and whoop and holler and hug each other, she thought she was missing out on a 'family hug' and would bolt back like a bullet:D. They have to want to come back, so shouting and roaring is going to make him think "I don't want to go back, I'll get into trouble", so whooping and hollering and applauding work really well for me. I look like a bit of an eejit but it gets the job done everytime. Now all I need is a whistle and they stop what they're doing and turn and run back immediately. We were on the beach yesterday and my setter boy was shrieking at seagulls in the sea and we were heading up to the dunes, one blow of the whistle and he stopped and turned and ran up the beach like his life depended on it, and away from his favourite birds!

It can be done, it just takes time and persistence, lots and lots of praise and make sure you always use a 'happy' tone to call him back, make him want to come back and he always will.

NewStart!

tk123
I havent done any training classes with him yet Ive just been looking them up there now and cant seem to find any in the Tipperary area. I had been walking him in his car safety harness but will go and get a front attach harness instead.


Thank you for the advice He takes or leaves toys ive tried his favorite gravy biscuits but I will try the chicken instead. Theres no enclosed areas around me unfortunately theirs the green which is enclosed on 3 sides but not completely so thats a no no I will order a duck whistle and try it , but how does it work ? Just like a normal whistle ? Sorry if this is a silly question !

Anytime he sees birds in the sky hes head up and trys to run after it or apart from that hes nose to the ground and ignoring me ! Any idea on how to get him to actually hear me when hes in "hunting" mode ?

He is head wrecking sometimes but we shall keep at it I really dont want to be dragged around for the next 15 years

Thank you both for the advice

pooch90

Where in Tipp are you? If around Clonmel, I think South view vets do training classes.
Wherever you are, ask in your vets and they will point you in right direction, or even in Tipp forum.

NewStart!

Based in Thurles, Will ring South view tomorrow. thanks

tk123

Have you tried squeaky toys for him - my friend's setter LOVES them. He pulled my pocket off once time to get the squeaky kong tennis ball inside I got a free pack of squeakers in a toy a while ago - I have one in the pocket of my walking belt for emergencies if my pup get's distracted and won't come back. Another thing to try is hotdogs - any dog I know LOVES them and goes mad for them. My friend's setter was pulling my pocket open the other day looking for these treats we got at dog expo - http://hpp.ie/product_info.php?products_id=558 - they weren't even in my pocket lol!!

Genghis Cant

NewStart! wrote: »

I will order a duck whistle and try it , but how does it work ? Just like a normal whistle ? Sorry if this is a silly question !

Anytime he sees birds in the sky hes head up and trys to run after it or apart from that hes nose to the ground and ignoring me ! Any idea on how to get him to actually hear me when hes in "hunting" mode ?

Don't embarrass yourself with a duck call unless you're goin duck hunting.
Your dog is doing nothing I wouldn't expect any working English Setter to do. You simply need to train him. Start off in a low distraction environment and progressively build on this. Teach him a solid sit as a foundation, build in time and distance, and use it as part of the recall.
Time, patience and consistency is all you'll need.

tk123

This is the kind of whistle you want - http://www.amazon.co.uk/ACME-Dog-211-5-Black-Whistle/dp/B000P5Q1YY
You start of by blowing the whistle and giving him a treat indoors for say 2 weeks, then out in the garden and then progress to trying it on a long line.

fatmammycat

Just a normal whistle beloved of PE teacher the country over is fine too, 3 euros and no big deal if you lose one.OP, my dog is trained to recall on a whistle, also trained to go left/right/halt and am currently adding 'go wide', which he understands verbally, but I want it on the whistle too.
I'm a big fan of the whistle, it sounds high energy and enthusiastic and if you make training fun your dog will have recall in no time.

borderlinemeath

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Don't embarrass yourself with a duck call unless you're goin duck hunting.
Your dog is doing nothing I wouldn't expect any working English Setter to do. You simply need to train him. Start off in a low distraction environment and progressively build on this. Teach him a solid sit as a foundation, build in time and distance, and use it as part of the recall.
Time, patience and consistency is all you'll need.

I'd much rather feel embarrassed and use something that my dog will respond to and is motivated by, rather than having a dead dog on a road, or a dog being a nuisance to somebody else. :rolleyes:
I mind a dog that will return every time to a squeaker, one that came out of a toy he shredded. When I use the squeaker he returns to my side and trots alongside with perfect heelwork, head to my hand. If I could get the squeak noise in a whistle I would use it all the time.

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

If I could get the squeak noise in a whistle I would use it all the time.

Just take the actual squeaker out and blow on it? :pac:

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Just take the actual squeaker out and blow on it? :pac:

It's an inflatable one (you know the ones that come in plush?), so blowing doesn't work :P

He also used to respond to the 'grunt' that came out of the Aldi latex farm animals? That one was blowable, until he chewed it!

DBB

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'd much rather feel embarrassed and use something that my dog will respond to and is motivated by, rather than having a dead dog on a road, or a dog being a nuisance to somebody else. :rolleyes:

I think there's some confusion in terms here, because, to be honest, I wondered why someone would use a duck whistle to cue a recall too!
A duck whistle sounds just like a duck... You make "quack, quack" sounds with it, and it's used to draw duck into an area, by making them think it must be safe as there are other duck there.
I'm guessing this is not what you meant, blm? :-)

borderlinemeath

DBB wrote: »

I think there's some confusion in terms here, because, to be honest, I wondered why someone would use a duck whistle to cue a recall too!
A duck whistle sounds just like a duck... You make "quack, quack" sounds with it, and it's used to draw duck into an area, by making them think it must be safe as there are other duck there.
I'm guessing this is not what you meant, blm? :-)

Absolutely not what I meant, not going hunting for ducks! If the dog responds to a particular sound, then so be it! It can be anything as long as it's not offensive and works! As the dog is a rescue, I'm thinking he was maybe part of a litter bred for hunting but perhaps considered not up to scratch as a hunting dog, so wouldn't necessarily respond to conventional hunting commands.

I know for certain that mine would love the sound of a duck whistle, and if I could get the 'gobbly' noise that a pheasant makes, it would be music to their ears!

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I think there's some confusion in terms here, because, to be honest, I wondered why someone would use a duck whistle to cue a recall too!
A duck whistle sounds just like a duck... You make "quack, quack" sounds with it, and it's used to draw duck into an area, by making them think it must be safe as there are other duck there.
I'm guessing this is not what you meant, blm? :-)

OT but this reminds me of the time I tried the squeaker/quacker out of a toy duck on time in the park to see if it'd get the duck's attention and ...NOTHING! :P

Genghis Cant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'd much rather feel embarrassed and use something that my dog will respond to and is motivated by, rather than having a dead dog on a road, or a dog being a nuisance to somebody else. :rolleyes:

Is there need for the sarcastic smiley?

You recommend a duck call for a dog, I think its a silly idea, there are any amount of good dog whistles out there.
I don't feel the need here for sarcasm?
Simply disagree with me if wish.
Posting regularly here doesnt give you a right to belittle my contribution.

NewStart!

I will order both a normal and a duck whistle and see if he starts to respond to them He has the rope toys and no squeaky ones Now i have a excuse to go shopping for some ! Always a bad idea to let me free in the pet store !

He wont be left off the lead in public place until I am 100% sure he will come back I don't want him getting into trouble or getting hurt looks like loads of practice is in store

Thank you everyone for your advice

Genghis Cant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'm thinking he was maybe part of a litter bred for hunting but perhaps considered not up to scratch as a hunting dog.......

I would think this is unlikely because at 6/7 months the pup would be much too young to be concluding that he ain't up to scratch.

borderlinemeath

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Is there need for the sarcastic smiley?

You recommend a duck call for a dog, I think its a silly idea, there are any amount of good dog whistles out there.
I don't feel the need here for sarcasm?
Simply disagree with me if wish.
Posting regularly here doesnt give you a right to belittle my contribution.

I did think your tone was a bit condescending, telling the OP not to embarrass herself. I said in my original post that whatever motivates the dog is worth trying, whatever it may be. If you have a problem with the use of the smilies, by all means report the post.

NewStart!

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I would think this is unlikely because at 6/7 months the pup would be much too young to be concluding that he ain't up to scratch.

He was dumped from a car at around 6/7 weeks of age Ive had him since he was 8/9 ish weeks Dont know why anyone would dump him hes a loveable fool

DBB

OP, I must insist on seeing a photo of him. English/Llewellyn Setters are a firm favourite of mine, to me they're everything I like about dogs :-)

NewStart!

Hope this works , This is him as just before we got him, He is much bigger now I will try and get a photo later

tk123

(fixed your link)





OMG! The bold head on him lol :pac:

Another idea would be to keep a toy separate that he only gets on walks so it's extra special

NewStart!

Thnk you for fixing the link tk

Thats him the monster hes triple the size now I will get a photo later Tried the squeaky toy today and not a chance , looked at it , looked at me then off he pranced down the garden whistles are ordered so when they come we shall try that instead

Genghis Cant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I did think your tone was a bit condescending, telling the OP not to embarrass herself. I said in my original post that whatever motivates the dog is worth trying, whatever it may be. If you have a problem with the use of the smilies, by all means report the post.

I don't believe for a second my post had a condescending tone. You've taken issue with my disagreeing with you (not the OP) on your Duck call idea, (which I still think is silly).
I don't think it warrants a reported post. Nor do I need your advice as to when I should or shouldn't report a post. I'm sure the Mods have more to be doing.
In the meantime I'll try and treat people on here with respect and as if I'm talking to them face to face. Give it a try. I know for sure you'd you'd treat me much differently in real life.;)

borderlinemeath

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I don't believe for a second my post had a condescending tone. You've taken issue with my disagreeing with you (not the OP) on your Duck call idea, (which I still think is silly).
I don't think it warrants a reported post. Nor do I need your advice as to when I should or shouldn't report a post. I'm sure the Mods have more to be doing.
In the meantime I'll try and treat people on here with respect and as if I'm talking to them face to face. Give it a try. I know for sure you'd you'd treat me much differently in real life.;)

Well if you intend to treat people with respect then I would respectfully suggest that you don't tell them that by doing something that they would "only embarrass yourself". Whether you intended it for the OP, or to have a dig at me, which it seems is all you have done on this thread, as you seem to only take issue with my posts. I'm nearly afraid to end off a sentence using any kind of emoticon in case it's misconstrued as offence!

Anyhow, I'm out. OP, I hope you have some success, it'll just take time and practice, and more practice. One other thing, how is your pom at recall, and how does your guy respond when you're making a fuss of the pom, ie could you recall the pom, make a huge fuss and treat and would your setter come back to see what he's missing out on?

DBB

Lads, knock it off please.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB