How long before the Jury comes in?

naughtysmurf

Anybody think it will make any difference if report after report comes out in the future saying they are safe? Will the bans recently introduced on trains, restaurants etc be reversed?

That's usually the main argument at the moment against vaping in public areas.

But Mags O'Connor of the Cornstore says the jury is still out on the safety of e-cigarettes...

What happens if that argument is totally discredited by reputable health or other organisations?

One of Limerick's better known restaurants, the Cornstore has banned e-cigs along with all Cork restaurants that are members of the Restaurants Association of Ireland including the Cornstore's Cork city branch.


http://www.live95fm.ie/News-Sport/Article/?ItemID=18092

grindle

Nope, no difference, there are already studies outlining the non-dangers with passive-vaping, the jury isn't still out on their safety regarding the public situation, Mags O'Connor thinking the jury's still out shows her ignorance. Nothing in the exhaled vapour amounts to anything considered near dangerous by the EU's workplace safety standards. That's the be-all end-all.
How safe/unsafe they are for us is what's actually worth discussing and 99.9% safer than cigarettes is good enough for me and should be good enough for any smoker.

I'd totally understand if they'd just stayed with the whole "it's just not a good look in a restaurant", because I can understand it. But trying to assert that "we don't know how safe they are" without bothering to check to see if studies have been done concerning precisely this situation with perceived air-impurities gets my goat.

Gryzor

Restaurants etc will do whatever keeps the punters coming in the door. Right now I imagine there are alot more non-vapers than vapers coming through their doors...some obviously complaining...Can't blame them really imo...if it was my business, I'd probably do the same...

It's not necessarily about safety, it's about keeping the environment pleasant for customers. Me sitting there blowing out clouds of Turkish Tobacco isn't going to be pleasant for people around me...missus is always giving out to me about the smaell of the stuff in the room...I do like my Turkish Tobacco I'm sure there are more pungent liquids around than that too...

grindle

Gryzor wrote: »

It's not necessarily about safety, it's about keeping the environment pleasant for customers.

I'm all for this line of reasoning, but the businesses and the association that works on their part keep using these call-to-emotion notions of hypothetical non-safety for their other customers as an excuse.
They should go on the radio or talk to a newspaper and say "Listen, we don't like the look of it, that's all." and I'd be fine with it, would continue to eat there (well, apart from the Cornstore because their food was ultra-dull when I went...creamy mashed spuds with... lumps... Hrmmm. Great mashing skillzzzzz).
Trying to have the Department of Health burden ecigs with unnecessary legislation is bollocks. Imagine the government legislating that for certain clubs you legally have to wear smart shoes - it's that dumb. Not that a proprietor shouldn't get to choose, but that it gets legislated? Adrian Cummins is an A1 dildo-brained slunt squoggler for this suggestion.
Going on the radio saying not enough is known about the danger of passive vaping is bollocks (thanks to every single study of vapour recognising that all levels of possible contaminants or toxic elements are lower than levels recognised by law to be dangerous).
Yet they choose this route instead of the truthful line? Bell. Ends.

Gryzor

Fair points, but they are probably not gonna say anything different until they see the likes of the IMB or another "respected" well recognised group saying these things do no harm. Plus it's the easiest option for them, play the safety card, you'll get very few arguments...All they hear is they are being banned in countries all over the place. Plus the link in peoples heads to smoking will be hard to break...

I'm not agreeing with their methods, but they were always going to be banned in public places eventually whatever the argument used to achieve it...

meoklmrk91

Ignorance is the biggest hurdle here, every vaper has had this conversation with non vapers, I have gotten everything from "I heard they are more dangerous than cigarettes" to " I heard they are more addictive than cigarettes" to "do you know how many chemicals are in them", people are getting there info from what is a scaremongering media that is being encouraged along by big tobacco and big pharma. Vaping is still a bit of a sub culture, the vast majority of people know very little about it, but that is changing and it has become way more pervasive in the in time since I started andthatbwasonly a year ago.

People are still lumping them in with cigs and until that changes then there will be more and more of these bans because they are getting a lot of one sided information.

Personally I wouldn't vape in a restaurant anyway because some liquids can be very strong smelling and I wouldn't want to bother anyone else especially while they are eating. Generally wherever I am I go outside to vape unless I know that it's okay to vape, I had a few stealthy vapes on the train before it was banned but always small draws, no plumes if vaper and always kept the window open.

tommy2bad

Gryzor wrote: »

Fair points, but they are probably not gonna say anything different until they see the likes of the IMB or another "respected" well recognised group saying these things do no harm. Plus it's the easiest option for them, play the safety card, you'll get very few arguments...All they hear is they are being banned in countries all over the place. Plus the link in peoples heads to smoking will be hard to break...

I'm not agreeing with their methods, but they were always going to be banned in public places eventually whatever the argument used to achieve it...

Yes this is true, the battle is and never was about health or anything resembling health. This is and has been about who owns public space. We might think that the term public would imply that it belongs to everyone and as long as what you are doing is legal you are free to carry on. That's not true, in fact theirs precious little public space left, most of the space shared by the public is private property and is regulated by the owners. Public space is owned by councils and government bodies, they set the rules their and as far as the non smoking (and a lot of the smoking) public is concerned vaping is smoking
To give you an idea of the fervour and attitude of non smokers this quote "Taking a stick of anything, a cigarette or a vapestick, is a pathetic, juvenile act, " give you some idea. And this is from a public health advocate!!
I'st from the comments on Clive Bates blog.http://www.clivebates.com/?p=2053
The battle for the hearts and minds of the general public is lost, was always lost, tobacco demonsization has gone so far in it's efforts that even people who don't smoke i.e. us vapers have a self hating contingent.

Going Forward

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Ignorance is the biggest hurdle here, every vaper has had this conversation with non vapers, I have gotten everything from "I heard they are more dangerous than cigarettes" to " I heard they are more addictive than cigarettes" to "do you know how many chemicals are in them", people are getting there info from what is a scaremongering media that is being encouraged along by big tobacco and big pharma.

So true, on Newstalk Breakfast yesterday morning Chris Donahue claimed they were cancerous whilst Ivan Yates tried to defend them criticising bans.

meoklmrk91

Going Forward wrote: »

So true, on Newstalk Breakfast yesterday morning Chris Donahue claimed they were cancerous whilst Ivan Yates tried to defend them criticising bans.

It's absolute madness, people like Chris Donahue should really do more research before they spout off like that, he is on newstalk for fecks sake, a bit of factual information wouldn't go astray. Like I said ignorance is the biggest hurdle and a lot of people seem to believe anything what they read and hear, I really think that's where we are loosing the battle.