Liffey Salmon

_danny_b

I've bought myself my membership for the Dublin and District Salmon and Trout Anglers Association (& have my state license). Unfortunately there seems to be very little info on where this allows me to fish - does anyone have a map or guide?

Alternatively any old hands have advice on where to fly fish from? How to time it (tides vs releases from the dams?)

It would be much appreciated - I am excited to have an open river at my doorstep, but no idea where to cast my line!

Chopperdog 2

Hi Danny,
Is the Liffey open for salmon fishing?
I know that last year it was closed and had a dispensation to open for one day for catch and release on Jan 1st.
Has it been opened for this year?

_danny_b

Hi - yes the lower river is open for catch & release below this year with the usual restrictions.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

From IFI

Fisheries Open to Catch and Release only 2014
No1 or Dublin District
Lower Liffey (downstream of Leixlip Dam)*

Closed Fisheries 2014
No. 1 or Dublin District
Upper Liffey (upstream of Leixlip Dam)**


Full listing here - http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Salmon-Regulations/salmon-regulations.html

Chopperdog 2

Thats very good, thanks for the update.

At least I can get out the double hander for a few hours in the evening without having to travel further afield.

_danny_b

That was what I was planning too... let me know how you get on...

Flysfisher

_danny_b wrote: »

I've bought myself my membership for the Dublin and District Salmon and Trout Anglers Association (& have my state license). Unfortunately there seems to be very little info on where this allows me to fish - does anyone have a map or guide?

Alternatively any old hands have advice on where to fly fish from? How to time it (tides vs releases from the dams?)

It would be much appreciated - I am excited to have an open river at my doorstep, but no idea where to cast my line!

Fisheries at Island bridge, strawberry beds and Lucan.
Secetary should help.
Some nice fly water too.

danbrosnan

Please let us know how you get on, it's great that salmon have made a comeback in the Liffey...

Flysfisher

danbrosnan wrote: »

Please let us know how you get on, it's great that salmon have made a comeback in the Liffey...

Salmon never left the Liffey.
But the dam in leixlip is the major problem.

danbrosnan

I know that they never left but it seems to are coming back in very good numbers now???

Flysfisher

danbrosnan wrote: »

I know that they never left but it seems to are coming back in very good numbers now???

The dam still does the damage, there never will be any great recovery.

danbrosnan

Flysfisher wrote: »

The dam still does the damage, there never will be any great recovery.

Is there no pass at the dam!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

danbrosnan wrote: »

Is there no pass at the dam!

I could have sworn there was a fish pass at Leixlip dam.

Bio Mech

Nolan Breezy Refund wrote: »

I could have sworn there was a fish pass at Leixlip dam.

Its not all that functional. its a lift type and while it can work going up the kelts cant find their way back down very well. You can often see fish stuck below the dam too or trying to swim up the sluice stream. The dam isnt itself killing the run, IMO, but its one of several issues that doesn't help.

Flysfisher

Bio Mech wrote: »

Its not all that functional. its a lift type and while it can work going up the kelts cant find their way back down very well. You can often see fish stuck below the dam too or trying to swim up the sluice stream. The dam isnt itself killing the run, IMO, but its one of several issues that doesn't help.

There is a lift to bring fish up over the dam, sadly it doesn't very many bring returning kelts or smolts back down. They get trapped behind the dam and the pike gobble them up.
There is supposed to be a hole at the base of the dam but they don't find it. The rye is probably keeping Liffey salmon going.

Bio Mech

Flysfisher wrote: »

There is a lift to bring fish up over the dam, sadly it doesn't very many bring returning kelts or smolts back down. They get trapped behind the dam and the pike gobble them up.
There is supposed to be a hole at the base of the dam but they don't find it. The rye is probably keeping Liffey salmon going.

I don't think that's entirely true. There are more fish every year that go through the dam counter than don't (compared to the island bridge counts) so even if you assume 100% survival of the island bridge fish more get beyond the dam than go up the Rye. But the Rye helps no doubt.

I have seen the reds on the rye at spawning time. There are not that many fish there really.

They also have a protocol for opening the sluice gates to flush kelts and smolts down. Survival seems pretty good because they seem to remain in the stream so there is no impact when they reach the river below.

The dam does slow them down for sure and some kelts do die there but its not total.

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I don't think that's entirely true. There are more fish every year that go through the dam counter than don't (compared to the island bridge counts) so even if you assume 100% survival of the island bridge fish more get beyond the dam than go up the Rye. But the Rye helps no doubt.

I have seen the reds on the rye at spawning time. There are not that many fish there really.

They also have a protocol for opening the sluice gates to flush kelts and smolts down. Survival seems pretty good because they seem to remain in the stream so there is no impact when they reach the river below.

The dam does slow them down for sure and some kelts do die there but its not total.

I feel in the natural world 100% survival, is not natural!!!

Great little read this is, love to see that fish pass, i know in Ireland there is a lot of problems with marine conservation... Especially with salmon...

But seriously to have salmon running the river that runs through our capital is fantastic, in most countries it just doesn't happen..

Flysfisher

Bio Mech wrote: »

I don't think that's entirely true. There are more fish every year that go through the dam counter than don't (compared to the island bridge counts) so even if you assume 100% survival of the island bridge fish more get beyond the dam than go up the Rye. But the Rye helps no doubt.

I have seen the reds on the rye at spawning time. There are not that many fish there really.

They also have a protocol for opening the sluice gates to flush kelts and smolts down. Survival seems pretty good because they seem to remain in the stream so there is no impact when they reach the river below.

The dam does slow them down for sure and some kelts do die there but its not total.

It's nearly impossible to calculate how many do get back down. Some do get back down but many do not. But one thing for sure the dam and hydro schemes and salmon do not go hand and hand, wherever we have these hydro dams there has been a huge impact on salmon. But we must also remember water abstraction is a big problem on the Liffey too.
I wouldn't be holding my breath for a miraculous recovery anytime soon.

Bio Mech

Flysfisher wrote: »

It's nearly impossible to calculate how many do get back down. Some do get back down but many do not. But one thing for sure the dam and hydro schemes and salmon do not go hand and hand, wherever we have these hydro dams there has been a huge impact on salmon. But we must also remember water abstraction is a big problem on the Liffey too.
I wouldn't be holding my breath for a miraculous recovery anytime soon.

I agree on that. There are lots of problems facing them at the moment. The Dam is just one. Are you from the area? Do you remember the time the local club got permission to catch and transfer kelts from the back of the dam?

It was a year of particularly low water levels. Would it have been late 80s/early 90s. And there were hundreds of kelts stuck at the back of the dam. They were literally falling apart before your eyes. The local club got permission to catch them by rod and line. Pop them in aerated bins and transport them to below the dam. Catching them wouldn't have been good for them of course but they were dead otherwise

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I agree on that. There are lots of problems facing them at the moment. The Dam is just one. Are you from the area? Do you remember the time the local club got permission to catch and transfer kelts from the back of the dam?

It was a year of particularly low water levels. Would it have been late 80s/early 90s. And there were hundreds of kelts stuck at the back of the dam. They were literally falling apart before your eyes. The local club got permission to catch them by rod and line. Pop them in aerated bins and transport them to below the dam. Catching them wouldn't have been good for them of course but they were dead otherwise

Now there's a story, this dam needs to be demolished...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I think that dam was built in 1945. Surely there have been other factors affecting salmon populations, apart from on that, in the past 70 years.

Bio Mech

Nolan Breezy Refund wrote: »

I think that dam was built in 1945. Surely there have been other factors affecting salmon populations, apart from on that, in the past 70 years.

I think its pretty well known that the dam isn't the be all and end all, but it doesn't help. It does reduce the numbers of kelts getting down and it slows down the smolts who get stuck behind it and are easy fodder for cormorants etc that are there.

Zzippy

Nolan Breezy Refund wrote: »

I think that dam was built in 1945. Surely there have been other factors affecting salmon populations, apart from on that, in the past 70 years.

Yep, water quality, sea survival, forestry upstream, commercial overfishing have all played a part. But catchments with hydro schemes have suffered extraordinary declines in salmon stocks and it's well documented now that hydro impoundments are very harmful to migratory salmonid populations. The Erne, Shannon, Liffey and Lee are the 4 main hydro schemes in the country. All 4 have suffered virtual extinction of their native stocks. The Erne was once one of the most prolific salmon rivers in Europe, with fish over 40lbs regularly caught and 100 draft net crews supported in the estuary (draft netting in the 19th century was much less efficient, and the stock remained stable). Salmon virtually disappeared from the catchment within 20 years of the construction of the 2 hydro dams. Similar story on the Shannon, Lee, and Liffey, despite hatchery stocking.

Bio Mech

Zzippy wrote: »

Yep, water quality, sea survival, forestry upstream, commercial overfishing have all played a part. But catchments with hydro schemes have suffered extraordinary declines in salmon stocks and it's well documented now that hydro impoundments are very harmful to migratory salmonid populations. The Erne, Shannon, Liffey and Lee are the 4 main hydro schemes in the country. All 4 have suffered virtual extinction of their native stocks. The Erne was once one of the most prolific salmon rivers in Europe, with fish over 40lbs regularly caught and 100 draft net crews supported in the estuary (draft netting in the 19th century was much less efficient, and the stock remained stable). Salmon virtually disappeared from the catchment within 20 years of the construction of the 2 hydro dams. Similar story on the Shannon, Lee, and Liffey, despite hatchery stocking.

You can sort of weigh up the effect of the Lexilip dam by looking at the run on the Rye. If you deduct the numbers counted at island bridge from the numbers going up the dam you can get a rough idea of how the rye run has been affected by factors other than the dam. The Rye run has dropped a lot over the years too but the numbers going up the dam have dropped more. That suggests, in agreement with what you said, that a lot of factors are working with the Dam being one of them.

Zzippy

Bio Mech wrote: »

You can sort of weigh up the effect of the Lexilip dam by looking at the run on the Rye. If you deduct the numbers counted at island bridge from the numbers going up the dam you can get a rough idea of how the rye run has been affected by factors other than the dam. The Rye run has dropped a lot over the years too but the numbers going up the dam have dropped more. That suggests, in agreement with what you said, that a lot of factors are working with the Dam being one of them.

Same situation on the Shannon, where you can see the drop in stocks on the Mulcair (joins the Shannon below the dam), which is a slight reduction compared to the virtual extinction of salmon upstream of Parteen.

Flysfisher

Bio Mech wrote: »

I agree on that. There are lots of problems facing them at the moment. The Dam is just one. Are you from the area? Do you remember the time the local club got permission to catch and transfer kelts from the back of the dam?

It was a year of particularly low water levels. Would it have been late 80s/early 90s. And there were hundreds of kelts stuck at the back of the dam. They were literally falling apart before your eyes. The local club got permission to catch them by rod and line. Pop them in aerated bins and transport them to below the dam. Catching them wouldn't have been good for them of course but they were dead otherwise

I do not remember that particular incident but I do remember fishing for pike above the dam in the 1980s and there would be loads of kelts swimming around in circles, in along the bank and everything looking for a way downstream, it was very sad to see. The pike and other predators thought they were in heaven!!
The smolts didn't fare much better.

I agree the dam is not the sole problem, there are other factors, but the dam is a major problem in its own right and as long as it's still there the Liffey will only be so good.

Bio Mech

Flysfisher wrote: »

I do not remember that particular incident but I do remember fishing for pike above the dam in the 1980s and there would be loads of kelts swimming around in circles, in along the bank and everything looking for a way downstream, it was very sad to see. The pike and other predators thought they were in heaven!!
The smolts didn't fare much better.

I agree the dam is not the sole problem, there are other factors, but the dam is a major problem in its own right and as long as it's still there the Liffey will only be so good.

Yes I have seen the same myself. When we were transferring the kelts one very sick one came in close to the bank and one of the guys netted it, More went through the mesh than stayed in.

It would have been towards the end of the 80s we did that so you probably saw it at its worst. The new protocol of opening the sluice helps them a bit now but of course there are no many fewer kelts coming down now anyway. Its hard to judge.