Written warning due to child care issues, advice please?

daveyboynire

Wondering where I stand here, My wife works 1-2 nights per week, I work during the day, I was asked to do overtime tonight but can't because of I have to look after my kids. Written warning is being produced and I will get it tomorrow.


Now the unfairness of this is, I said I will work tomorrow night and Thursday night but doesn't matter, It does say in our contract about a reasonable amount of over time, Last week I did more than 48hrs per week which I gather is more than the work time directive.


So if they are gonna be a pain in the ass about this I want to play there game aswell. So how do I handle this?

bbam

daveyboynire wrote: »

Wondering where I stand here, My wife works 1-2 nights per week, I work during the day, I was asked to do overtime tonight but can't because of I have to look after my kids. Written warning is being produced and I will get it tomorrow.


Now the unfairness of this is, I said I will work tomorrow night and Thursday night but doesn't matter, It does say in our contract about a reasonable amount of over time, Last week I did more than 48hrs per week which I gather is more than the work time directive.


So if they are gonna be a pain in the ass about this I want to play there game aswell. So how do I handle this?

I'm surprised they are going to written warning on this alone, is this the first time you've declined or are there other issues outstanding, but taking your information as fact..

I'd be asking them to see where it states that failing to comply at short notice will result in disciplinary action..
Then I'd be asking to see a copy of the disciplinary process, is there a step before written warning - if so why did they deem it suitable to skip this?
If they have a HR department I'd be asking them is there precedence to this, not looking for examples with names just confirmation that this is the usual process in cases like this.

If you are indeed presented with a written warning to sign, you could ask for responses to these in writing and when you have these you're available to sign.

wmpdd3

Information

The Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 states that the maximum average working week for many employees cannot exceed 48 hours. This does not mean that a working week can never exceed 48 hours, it is the average that is important. The average may be calculated in one of the following ways:

Over 4 months for most employees
Over 6 months for employees working in the security industry, hospitals, prisons, gas/electricity, airport/docks, agriculture and employees in businesses which have peak periods at certain times of the year such as tourism.
over 12 months where there has been an agreement between the employer and the employees to this effect. The agreement between employer and employees must be approved by the Labour Court.
The calculation of 48 hours does not include annual leave, sick leave or maternity/adoptive/parental leave.
The legislation also lays down rules for night workers, minimum breaks and rest periods. There are also special provisions in relation to Sunday working – see below.

Exceptions

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/working_week.html

One week going over 48 hours is within the law.

It must be written somewhere in your contract that overtime is compulsory? Going to a written over this seems really odd. Do you have shop steward? I'm guessing no and this this is a small operation.

How is overtime decided, is it always you or is it shared out or is it usually just one section?

Do the guys in the office have to do overtime? Are the salaried?

By the way, the reason you can't do overtime is none of their business and if they asked, it is very unprofessional of them. What if you were parenting alone? Its just personal reasons. End of.

daveyboynire

My contract states, "You are expected to work a reasonable amount of overtime when asked" I have stated I can not work 1 night per week but am available the rest which I believe is fair.

We have no shop steward and it is a fairly small operation. Overtime 90% of the time only applies to my section which I should add is a department I never applied for, to be clear I applied for a totally different job in this firm, took the job to find out the job, hours and wages were totally different, I believe its called a bait and switch scam because they could not get anyone to take my job.

I am thinking if this it the route they are going down, they are basically saying sod your responsibilities or else they are basically suggesting I face prosecution by leaving 3 small children unattended while I work overtime.

bbam

I'd expect they will back down.

wmpdd3

I think you are in the right.

But again, do not make this personal, don't mention your kids.

You are willing to help out your company by working over and above your hours every day bar 1.

The reason is not the issue. You are available for 6/7 of you free time, but unavailable for 1/7. They will have to get over it, or just manage their staff better.

Register your dissatisfaction at this warning, tell them you want to appeal, they won't let you. If you're brave, don't sign or query the wording before you sign.

Are you there more than a year? Is there a high turnover of staff?

Eoin

Here are some of your rights when it comes to disciplinary procedures:

The procedures for dealing with such issues reflecting the varying circumstances of enterprises/organisations, must comply with the general principles of natural justice and fair procedures which include:

? That employee grievances are fairly examined and processed;

? That details of any allegations or complaints are put to the employee concerned;

? That the employee concerned is given the opportunity to respond fully to any such allegations or complaints;

? That the employee concerned is given the opportunity to avail of the right to be represented during the procedure;

? That the employee concerned has the right to a fair and impartial determination of the issues concerned, taking into account any representations made by, or on behalf of, the employee and any other relevant or appropriate evidence, factors or circumstances.

So even ignoring the unreasonable (IMO) nature of their request, did they say you were getting a warning without the right to a witness / a proper hearing etc? It sounds like they've skipped the steps based on what you've posted.

If things cool down and they realise they're in the wrong, do you think that they'll be more understanding of your situation? Or will they just be cleverer about giving you warnings in the future?

blindsider

OP - your profile says Derry - do you work in NI? If so, UK legislation applies.

Regardless of where you work, I would say this is unfair from what you've said. Are you in a union?

I presume they'll call you into a meeting to deliver the written warning - bring a witness. You are legally allowed to ask for this. The witness should not say anything - but you should both arrive with notepad and pen. Take notes and make sure they see you do that - you are allowed to take notes.

Challenge the written warning - explain why you feel its grossly unfair. You may need to make a stand here - I presume they could do the same next week and you'd be facing a 2nd written warning - if that's the case, you'll need a solicitor.

Hope you get it sorted.

daveyboynire

Well they have backed down for now it seems. There was 3 of us in line for this warning, They took the first guy to office and went on about our contracts, the guy was prepared and pointed out all the flaws in the contract such as changing our hours without notice, changing holidays etc, they went away with their tail between their legs It may not be the end of this but it is for now.

bbam

daveyboynire wrote: »

Well they have backed down for now it seems. There was 3 of us in line for this warning, They took the first guy to office and went on about our contracts, the guy was prepared and pointed out all the flaws in the contract such as changing our hours without notice, changing holidays etc, they went away with their tail between their legs It may not be the end of this but it is for now.

Thought they might back down, just huff and puff, which is embarressing enough, manager should never shout written warning if he's not sure he can pin the tail on the donkey, makes them look inept.

I would expect though they will be keeping a tally of OT worked when requested.. So if you can get stuck in. I'm not sure if you have a HR department or how your managment structure works, but I'd be inclined to submit a letter detailing that your available X days for OT requests but due to childcare arrangments Y day is not feesable without a weeks notice, don't say you'll never work it, say for that day you need a weeks notice.

On the flip side, one senior manager I worked under would block pay rises for lads who didn't come in for OT when I called them off shift....

the_syco

Do you get much from OT, and how much OT can you work before you hit the next tax band, and you get significantly less? Just something to keep in mind if you do lots of overtime.

Red Crow

You have to get certain notice periods of a change of shift, in most cases that's 24 hours.

Besides any decent union rep or solicitor would get you out of a situation like this no problem.

Slutmonkey57b

daveyboynire wrote: »

My contract states, "You are expected to work a reasonable amount of overtime when asked" I have stated I can not work 1 night per week but am available the rest which I believe is fair.

We have no shop steward and it is a fairly small operation. Overtime 90% of the time only applies to my section which I should add is a department I never applied for, to be clear I applied for a totally different job in this firm, took the job to find out the job, hours and wages were totally different, I believe its called a bait and switch scam because they could not get anyone to take my job.

I am thinking if this it the route they are going down, they are basically saying sod your responsibilities or else they are basically suggesting I face prosecution by leaving 3 small children unattended while I work overtime.

The bait and switch is more concerning than the overtime. I would be very keen on looking for another job if this is typical of the way the company behaves.