Quick Question

ABajaninCork

Not really a Consumer Issue, but unsure where else to ask this...

If you see a price in Euro on a website originating in the UK, can you quote prices excluding VAT? I always thought you couldn't do that here, but know prices at home in the UK are always quoted ex-VAT. Would I even be correct in assuming prices quoted here must include VAT?

Hope the question makes sense, and thanks in advance for the replies!

slimjimmc

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Not really a Consumer Issue, but unsure where else to ask this...

If you see a price in Euro on a website originating in the UK, can you quote prices excluding VAT? I always thought you couldn't do that here, but know prices at home in the UK are always quoted ex-VAT. Would I even be correct in assuming prices quoted here must include VAT?

Hope the question makes sense, and thanks in advance for the replies!

It's the same as here. The law requires if the retailer normally sells to consumers then they must include VAT in the price. It also allows retailers who sell to trade to display ex-VAT. I doubt it's illegal to display both VAT inclusive and VAT exclusive prices if the retailer sells to both markets.
The price display rules are the same regardless of currency.

dudara

It depends on the target customer. If a business, then prices are quoted ex-VAT, if regular consumers, then prices should include VAT. It should also be very clearly labelled as such.

ABajaninCork

Well, the website in question isn't a business site per se. This site offers training both in the UK as well as here. I'm pretty sure the company can't offer Euro prices ex-VAT, but wanted to out the question out there.

dudara

Off the top of my head, I don't see why they can't. They can issue invoices in any currency they want, and they must charge the correct VAT amount. Don't think there any other restrictions.

slimjimmc

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Well, the website in question isn't a business site per se. This site offers training both in the UK as well as here.

Can you explain? Do you mean the service advertised by website is not normally used by businesses or the website is not owned by a business?

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the company can't offer Euro prices ex-VAT, but wanted to out the question out there.

But does it also show a VAT inclusive Euro price? If it does then it's fine to display both.
For example look at HP's website, you'll see Home laptops are quoted with both VAT and ex-VAT pricing clearly displayed, and you'll see the same for their Business laptops.

Home: http://www8.hp.com/ie/en/products/laptops/index.html?facet=Home|Premium-Computing#!view=column&page=1&facet=Home%7CPremium-Computing

SRP Only
Starting from€ 792 Inc. VAT
Starting from€ 644Exc. VAT

Business: http://www8.hp.com/ie/en/products/laptops/index.html?facet=Business|Sophisticated-image#!view=column&page=1&facet=Business%7CSophisticated-image

SRP Only
Starting from€ 1,288 Inc. VAT
Starting from€ 1,047Exc. VAT

MOH

If they're offering training primarily to businesses, then there's nothing wrong with them showing prices ex-VAT both in GBP and EUR.

If they're solely consumer focused then they should be showing VAT at the UK rate, unless they do over a certain threshold volume of business in Ireland, in which case they should be showing Irish VAT on the Irish prices.

Even if they are showing ex-VAT prices on a listing page, they might still be OK if this is clear, and they're showing the correct VAT-inclusive price to consumers before taking any orders.

ABajaninCork

MOH wrote: »

If they're offering training primarily to businesses, then there's nothing wrong with them showing prices ex-VAT both in GBP and EUR.

It's not. The website offers to both business as well as private individuals.

MOH wrote: »

If they're solely consumer focused then they should be showing VAT at the UK rate, unless they do over a certain threshold volume of business in Ireland, in which case they should be showing Irish VAT on the Irish prices.

Even if they are showing ex-VAT prices on a listing page, they might still be OK if this is clear, and they're showing the correct VAT-inclusive price to consumers before taking any orders.

In the UK, it's usual to quote prices ex-VAT. There is no legal requirement for businesses to show prices including VAT. My question was whether the business should show Euro prices INCLUDING VAT which is the law here, I believe.

coylemj

ABajaninCork wrote: »

In the UK, it's usual to quote prices ex-VAT.

Only if selling to businesses. If you disagree, go and look at www.amazon.co.uk or www.expansys.com and tell me if their prices include or exclude VAT.

In the UK and Ireland, everyone who sells to consumers quotes prices including VAT and as has been pointed out above, if a website is offering goods and/or service to both businesses and consumers, they will typically quote both prices.

ABajaninCork

With all due respect. I wasn't talking about Amazon. I am well aware of their pricing policy as I am a frequent customer.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in my original Q. Using the example I gave - a training company offering courses in the UK as well as Ireland, would it be usual to quote Euro prices ex-VAT?

If I used this particular company in the UK, I would automatically ask if the prices included VAT.

ABajaninCork

slimjimmc wrote: »

Can you explain? Do you mean the service advertised by website is not normally used by businesses or the website is not owned by a business?


But does it also show a VAT inclusive Euro price? If it does then it's fine to display both.

Sorry, I meant to reply, and forgot! No, the website showed just the one price (ex-VAT). The fact that the Euro price is ex-VAT is in their T's & C's, which a lot of people wouldn't necessarily read or realise.

It's only when I called to enquire and asked whether the prices included VAT that I found out! I must find out the VAT rate for training here. Is it the full 23% does anybody know?

MOH

ABajaninCork wrote: »

My question was whether the business should show Euro prices INCLUDING VAT which is the law here, I believe.

I don't think the law here is any different to the UK:

Products advertised in outlets, magazines, on the internet, or shown in catalogues, price lists and other literature may be aimed at the consumer, businesses, or both. If they're only meant for the general public, they'll show you a price including VAT. This is a legal requirement.
If they're aimed at both consumers and businesses, they will usually show a VAT inclusive price, but may also show a price without VAT. The VAT inclusive price must be given equal importance, but read carefully to make absolutely certain you understand what price you'll pay.
Prices aimed only at businesses are usually shown with no VAT included. VAT will be charged on top of the price shown.

Do they actually sell the training on the site? If it's only a brochure site that doesn't process sales, and they make you clearly aware of the price before you purchase through whatever channel, I don't know if there's an issue.

Is it a digital product or is it an actual training course with an instructor, and if so is it located here or in the UK?
If it's a UK based business with training based in the UK then while they might show euro rates for convenience, I imagine they'd fall under UK law.

If they're selling a digital product then I presume they fall under EU distance selling regs.
If they're providing a physical service based in Ireland then I guess they're exporting a service, but they wouldn't have any Irish VAT liability unless they're doing more than €37.5k/year of business here.

MOH

ABajaninCork wrote: »

It's only when I called to enquire and asked whether the prices included VAT that I found out! I must find out the VAT rate for training here. Is it the full 23% does anybody know?

Seems to depend on the nature of the training.

dudara

We're getting into taxation issues here. I'm going to transfer this to the Taxation forum

dudara

ABajaninCork

I was asking about the tax rate as an aside. It wasn't my original question.

Would it be possible to leave the thread here please?

Marcusm

The UK and Irish rules on the display or quotation of VAT inclusive and exclusive pricing derive from the same 1998 EU directive; however, it applies to goods not services. Training would be a service as would the downloading of digital material for service purposes. (In the UK, it's known as the Price Marking Order.)

Where services are concerned, there are rules for food, drink, hairdressers etc but nothing on the type of services you are considering.