"Brake disc steel cover?"

FamousBelgian

A family member just took their '04 Camry for a pre-NCT test and got the front brake pads replaced. However, the dealership said that the car also needs the following item(s) replaced:

REAR BRAKE DISC STEEL COVERS BOTH SIDES

for a price of e250 each + e170 labour + VAT.

Forgive my ignorance what exactly is this pricey item and what does its absence or lack of functionality entail for the NCT or safety generally?

I don't know too much about brakes but I know about pad and rotors and calipers and none of them is this pricey, in my experience. I've read about cosmetic caliper covers and dust covers (to prevent brake dust fouling wheels) but I can't find a "brake disc cover", steel or otherwise, for a car like this.

Actually I would have thought covering a brake rotor would not be a good thing but I don't know and I'm curious what this is all about.

mickdw

Would it be the stone guard at the back of the disc? It's a metal plate like object and they do tend to rot but those prices suggest is something else.
What type of establishment gave this quote?

colm_mcm

Are these the stone guards at the back perhaps?

colm_mcm

Haha, great minds!

Interslice

If it fails on NCT change them otherwise leave it. They are just sheilds behind the discs. NCt check to make sure they are secure.

here's a pic of one. The disc and caliper are removed. You could probably check yourself to see if they are loose.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/wizards/BMW_E36_Brake_Wizard/Wizard_Photos/Step-7-Brake%20Pads%20and%20Discs/E36_Brake_disc_shield.jpg

FamousBelgian wrote: »

the dealership

You should find a decent independant mechanic.

Lissavane

FamousBelgian wrote: »

A family member just took their '04 Camry for a pre-NCT test and got the front brake pads replaced. However, the dealership said that the car also needs the following item(s) replaced:

REAR BRAKE DISC STEEL COVERS BOTH SIDES

for a price of e250 each + e170 labour + VAT.

Forgive my ignorance what exactly is this pricey item and what does its absence or lack of functionality entail for the NCT or safety generally?

I don't know too much about brakes but I know about pad and rotors and calipers and none of them is this pricey, in my experience. I've read about cosmetic caliper covers and dust covers (to prevent brake dust fouling wheels) but I can't find a "brake disc cover", steel or otherwise, for a car like this.

Actually I would have thought covering a brake rotor would not be a good thing but I don't know and I'm curious what this is all about.

I'd guess it's the discs AND covers (whatever they are) that they are saying need to be replaced.

FamousBelgian

Thanks for the replies, guys.

That's cleared up a mystery for me. It was a main dealer and I guess that explains the price, or else they are made of something special...

I'll take the advice of @Interslice and suggest that they ignore the issue and see what the NCT comes up with.

@Lissavane I'm pretty sure the price didn't include the discs themselves. The dealer themselves was just advising this work as a precaution for the NCT but the family member was concerned about landing in the ditch because of uncovered rear discs.

In fact, I've driven the car myself yesterday and it was grand if a bit soft of pedal but that might be something else to do with the pad replacement.

mickdw

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, guys.

That's cleared up a mystery for me. It was a main dealer and I guess that explains the price, or else they are made of something special...

I'll take the advice of @Interslice and suggest that they ignore the issue and see what the NCT comes up with.

@Lissavane I'm pretty sure the price didn't include the discs themselves. The dealer themselves was just advising this work as a precaution for the NCT but the family member was concerned about landing in the ditch because of uncovered rear discs.

In fact, I've driven the car myself yesterday and it was grand if a bit soft of pedal but that might be something else to do with the pad replacement.

The new pads will cause a bit of extra pedal travel until they bed in.
What kind of car?

FamousBelgian

mickdw wrote: »

The new pads will cause a bit of extra pedal travel until they bed in.
What kind of car?

It's a ten year old Toyota Camry. I googled a bit about the pedal feeling: some people say you need to drive 150 miles for the pads to match the wear pattern on the discs and others are saying air or water in the brake fluid. I think best is now to wait for the NCT result.

Chris_Heilong

They wont feel right for the first 100 km, dont worry about it.

Cedrus

mickdw wrote: »

The new pads will cause a bit of extra pedal travel until they bed in.

OT I know but,
I once dropped in a Jap Import which needed non standard pads, the brakes were taken apart and the required pads were identified. However, they weren't available for a week so the garage put the old ones back in and the extra travel was frightening, imagine 3-4 times the usual (new pad) distance. Never again.

bazz26

On a side note.

Pre NCT checks are a waste of money imo. Bringing a 10 year old car to a main dealer for one is even a bigger waste of money. Put the car through the NCT and get whatever it fails on fixed by a local indy garage.

mickdw

All I can suggest there is that the guy that took the pads off put them back in different positions meaning they were not bedded into the disc in their new position. THe act of taking off pads and refitting them should have zero effect on pedal. Its possible they made a mess of something or somehow filled the system with air.

Cedrus

Cedrus wrote: »

OT I know but,
I once dropped in a Jap Import which needed non standard pads, the brakes were taken apart and the required pads were identified. However, they weren't available for a week so the garage put the old ones back in and the extra travel was frightening, imagine 3-4 times the usual (new pad) distance. Never again.

mickdw wrote: »

All I can suggest there is that the guy that took the pads off put them back in different positions meaning they were not bedded into the disc in their new position. THe act of taking off pads and refitting them should have zero effect on pedal. Its possible they made a mess of something or somehow filled the system with air.

I think it was just that, to get the pads out you have to push the pots in, squeezing the brake fluid up to the master cylinder, if you then put nice thick new pads in, they only have to bed in. However if you put in skinny worn old pads then there is a lot more travel to make up and the return springs/suction are fighting you far a lot longer than with new pads.

mickdw

First few pumps of the pedal will get the piston out to original position so that should not be an issue unless they wedged a pad in incorrectly or something. Im still thinking they put the pads back in different locations

Cedrus

mickdw wrote: »

First few pumps of the pedal will get the piston out to original position so that should not be an issue unless they wedged a pad in incorrectly or something. Im still thinking they put the pads back in different locations

Not possible, there was a inside/fixed left and right and an outside/floating left and right. All four were significantly different, I kept them so the next time they needed changed they wouldn't need to be taken out until the new ones were available.

greasepalm

did a quick google search looking at a 99 camry as that model has handbrake shoes inside brake disc so possible its the backing plate that shoes are attached to.

FamousBelgian

Just an update on this issue:

I googled around and called a few scrapyards and learned that these parts are variously called shields/guards/backing plates/backplates and sometimes also dust covers. One scrap dealer could not believe that they would cost e250 each new but admitted that they would usually be corroded on scrap cars and that some buyers of rear hubs and discs would take the backplates too making them even harder to find. I tracked down OEM parts in the US and found that front plates can cost from $46 but rear ones can cost 5 times as much. There's also a question if these parts are the same for US and Japan-built cars.

So the Camry went for its NCT and failed on the loose backplates (the NCT manual explicitly refers to this as a failure point). In the past (pre-2012) this was not an explicit fail point, I'm told, but the test centre said that you can no longer remove the plates and pass the test. I also learned that no motor factors can supply compatible parts and that sourcing them from the North would be no cheaper.

So now there's no option but to shell out e800+ to pass the NCT. Thanks to everyone for the advice and the suggestions but it seems there's no alternative to forking out to keep an otherwise trouble-free 10 year old car on the road. Ironically I found a complete, running 12 year old Camry on donedeal for the same amount as this repair.

richardsheil

Could the old ones be repaired by welding or riveting?

Avns1s

FamousBelgian wrote: »

Just an update on this issue:

I googled around and called a few scrapyards and learned that these parts are variously called shields/guards/backing plates/backplates and sometimes also dust covers. One scrap dealer could not believe that they would cost e250 each new but admitted that they would usually be corroded on scrap cars and that some buyers of rear hubs and discs would take the backplates too making them even harder to find. I tracked down OEM parts in the US and found that front plates can cost from $46 but rear ones can cost 5 times as much. There's also a question if these parts are the same for US and Japan-built cars.

So the Camry went for its NCT and failed on the loose backplates (the NCT manual explicitly refers to this as a failure point). In the past (pre-2012) this was not an explicit fail point, I'm told, but the test centre said that you can no longer remove the plates and pass the test. I also learned that no motor factors can supply compatible parts and that sourcing them from the North would be no cheaper.

So now there's no option but to shell out e800+ to pass the NCT. Thanks to everyone for the advice and the suggestions but it seems there's no alternative to forking out to keep an otherwise trouble-free 10 year old car on the road. Ironically I found a complete, running 12 year old Camry on donedeal for the same amount as this repair.

Is it the front or the rears you're looking for? Your first post says front and this one says rears.

I'll assume it's the rears for the purpose of this post. I had the same problem on an Avensis and the rear backplates carry the handbrake mechanism. So they are a critical component.

Anyway, calling and emailing breakers looking for a backplate etc was a waste of time. Call and ask them for the rear hub / wheel bearing and you may find what you're looking for. They don't seem to separate the items which make up the rear hub assy. I got a full rear hub with backing plate etc for €50 and it was in absolutely perfect condition. the New price for the backing plate was something like €237+VAT.

Keep looking OP.

joujoujou

FamousBelgian wrote: »

[...] There's also a question if these parts are the same for US and Japan-built cars.

[...]

PM me your car's VIN number and I'll let you know. If you can take a picture how them plates look now - would be grand.

I'll try to ask in a few places, maybe there'll be a possibility to find them in reasonable price.

FamousBelgian

joujoujou wrote: »

PM me your car's VIN number and I'll let you know. If you can take a picture how them plates look now - would be grand.

I'll try to ask in a few places, maybe there'll be a possibility to find them in reasonable price.

Thanks for the offer but I'm nowhere near the car in the coming months and as it's a family member I can only offer advice remotely to help save them paying too much.

I'm sure the car is Japan-built because I believe all European models came from there and I saw a J in the VIN. As I was saying you can find OEM parts on eBay but they come from the US and chances are they are different.
However, if you happen to see one of these things in a scrapyard looking complete then I'd be grateful for the information.

joujoujou

FamousBelgian wrote: »

[...] you can find OEM parts on eBay but they come from the US and chances are they are different.
[...]

US market is not always a good place to source spare parts (in terms of price). I'd rather think of getting them from Japan - and that does not to have to be really expensive. But I need a VIN number to find proper parts.

FamousBelgian

joujoujou wrote: »

US market is not always a good place to source spare parts (in terms of price). I'd rather think of getting them from Japan - and that does not to have to be really expensive. But I need a VIN number to find proper parts.

I can't get the VIN or any photos now but I do know for sure that it is a Japan-made car from 2004. With the NCT re-test coming up in a couple of weeks I think the only option is to pay the e500+VAT price from the main dealer.

joujoujou

Other option is to import them from Japan -it'll take 24-5 weeks and more than likely would cost approx. 50% of price from main dealer stealer. Up to you (or the one you ask on behalf of).

Mycroft H

Take off the corroded ones andget some steel fabricators to bodge you a new one? If they're what I think they are, the NCT shouldn't care less as long as they function and work as they should.

joujoujou

They support hand brakes, so they won't be easy to be copied. But I guess that only external part is corroded, so maybe just cut away what's between circles (sorry for my poor skills with Paint) and paint remaining part will do the trick.



I saw some cars passed NCT with such a "modification".