CPA accountant unprofessional conduct

digzy

Perhaps I'm asking in the wrong place ..........

I decided to leave my previous accountant for a few issues, breach of confidentiality being one and being a robber another.

There's one lad there who's being handling my affairs for a few years. I rang for a quote for 2013 accounts even though I had my mind made up I was moving on and just wanted a diplomatic excuse for leaving.(it's easier say its cos of fees than bring up a remark that was passed to a cousin of mine by the boss relating to my business last summer).

As it happens I informed him that I would have to move on-there's a fair difference between 4700 and 2500. The new accountant sent a letter a month ago looking for info so that he would have an opening balance etc so that he could proceed. Nothing was forwarded on. Last week I received an invoice for 600 from the last guy for "miscellaneous" services in 2013. They were expensive calls, I rang him twice I'd say:rolleyes:. My new guy advised me to ask for time sheets. I haven't said I'm not paying this even though I'd rather eat it first!

My new guy rang last week regarding the delay. During that call the previous guy passed a personal remark against me and also divulged confidential details to the my new guy.

Anyway, my primary concern is to get the info that my new guy needs. I'm also still waiting for a copy of my 2012 accounts which were fully paid for. My secondary concern is the breach of confidentiality.

Does the CPA have any 'teeth' regarding the delaying tactic and the breach of confidentiality. I was speaking to the lady there who said there wasn't much they can do. She sent me on a few links regarding the duty of an accountant to pass on details when a client moves on. Are they a waste of time? What options do I have?

My own regulatory body-dental council- would be down on me like a ton of bricks if I acted this way with one of my clients. I find it strange that a CPA can apparently act the maggot like this without recourse.

theKillerBite

digzy wrote: »

Anyway, my primary concern is to get the info that my new guy needs. I'm also still waiting for a copy of my 2012 accounts which were fully paid for. My secondary concern is the breach of confidentiality.

How did your accountant get your Income Tax Return done for 2012, if you havn't received/agree the accounts for the year??

http://www.cpaireland.ie/docs/default-source/regulation/making-a-complaint-against-a-cpa-member.pdf?sfvrsn=2

digzy

theKillerBite wrote: »

How did your accountant get your Income Tax Return done for 2012, if you havn't received/agree the accounts for the year??

http://www.cpaireland.ie/docs/default-source/regulation/making-a-complaint-against-a-cpa-member.pdf?sfvrsn=2

The 2012 return was completed and paid for in march 2013.

smcgiff

I'm pretty sure an accountant cannot keep onto the books based on fees not being paid.

In the first instance I'd go back to the accountant and say you expect him to pass on your books and all details held by him.

If he doesn't pass them over within a couple of days get back onto CPA and demand action. It's not good enough to be fobbed off. I would very much expect they'd be on your side.

I know of a CPA accountant that was told by the CPA to pass on books and records even though there was a fee (and other issues) outstanding.

Looks like you might not have talked to the right person.

digzy

smcgiff wrote: »

I'm pretty sure an accountant cannot keep onto the books based on fees not being paid.

In the first instance I'd go back to the accountant and say you expect him to pass on your books and all details held by him.

If he doesn't pass them over within a couple of days get back onto CPA and demand action. It's not good enough to be fobbed off. I would very much expect they'd be on your side.

I know of a CPA accountant that was told by the CPA to pass on books and records even though there was a fee (and other issues) outstanding.

Looks like you might not have talked to the right person.

I spoke to a Mod edit :NO NAMES PLEASE there. just so we're clear I paid him in 2013 for his work up to July 2013. I'm a bit pissed off at getting a spurious invoice for work not carried out.
Tbf if there was a legit fee due I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in my opinion and you'd want to have some cheek looking for your books to move on.
Though even in a case like this you're entitled to your material legally.

neverwasser

The former accountant HAS to provide all books and records within reason.

Financial statements and supporting documentation and workings is considered reasonable.

It doesn't matter that there issues around fees, that is up to him to chase up with you

Ring CPA again as all bodies are strict on this stuff.

Get your accountant to forward another registered letter.

Your new accountant probably does not want to get into a turf war with the old guy so maybe you should contact the old guy, tell him that you will contact the CPA if he doesn't comply and that you will pay all fees once they are proved reasonable.

ants09

Documents belonging to clients must be given to clients (or
their agents) promptly on request, or on ceasing to hold office,
except in those cases where members are able to exercise a
right of lien.

For documents belonging to members, the decision whether
to allow clients (or their agents) to inspect them rests with the
members. Clients have no rights to demand access

Where the member’s work is to prepare accounting records for
a client, the records belong to the client. Where the work is to
prepare financial statements from the client’s records, the final
financial statements belong to the client, while any drafts and
office copies of those financial statements belong to the member
unless the client has specifically asked for drafts to be prepared
for them. If they have specifically requested draft accounts to
be prepared, the drafts become part of the ‘product’, and are
therefore similar to the accounting records prepared during a
bookkeeping assignment

If the work to be done is to give tax or other advice to a client,
the member is generally acting as principal. Drafts, internal
memoranda and similar documents in connection with that work
belong to the member

A lien is a creditor’s right to retain possession of the debtor’s
property until the debtor pays what he or she owes the creditor

A right of particular lien will exist only where all four of the
following circumstances apply:
a
the documents retained must be the property of the client who
owes the money and not of a third party, no matter how closely
connected with the client;
b
the documents must have come into the possession of the
member by proper means;
c
work must have been done by the member upon the
documents and a fee note must have been rendered; and
d
the fees for which the lien is exercised must be outstanding
in respect of the work on the documents and not in respect of
other unrelated work

dbran

Hi

This is something that I am finding increasingly common especially with the increase of unqualified and therefore unregulated accountants currently operating as accountants. But I have had larger firms acting in this way who should really know better solely because of fees or some other unprofessional personal issue that has ended the relationship between client and the accountant.

Exercising a lien over the books and records needs to be considered very carefully. One thing to consider is whether or not the withholding of opening balances in such a way as to make it impossible for an incoming auditor to give an audit opinion constitutes a breach of Section 202 CA 1990 to keep proper books and records. In this case the previous auditor is an officer of the company and they could find themselves being reported to the ODCE as well as their own institute. This is especially if their actions mean that the client is unable to meet their obligations under company law.

dbran

Alan Shore

OP any developments in your case?

digzy

Alan Shore wrote: »

OP any developments in your case?

Yep, unfortunately the plot thickens.for simplicity's sake well call the last guy bob and the new guy Martin.

Info has come but very slowly. Martin has had to write and phone on multiple occasions-which is very unfair to him. Bob never filed a p35 for my 2 employees which Martin tells me raises a flag with revenue! However, most worrying was an expense for ' consultancy services' bob introduced into the 2012 accounts. Martin can't find something to correspond. Martin feels that I might be looking at filing a non prompted voluntary disclosure. I'm absolutely disgusted given all the money I've paid to bobs firm over the last 10 years.

I was reluctant to press ahead with the CPA complaint up to now. bob appears to be going out of his way to be difficult. A mate who is a client of bobs even reckons there's serious bad blood there. I'm wary that bob would make a call to revenue to slap me with an audit knowing where the issues are in my 2012 figures. I've better things to be doing but I feel I've no choice but to press ahead with a formal complaint as I' very no confidence re the accuracy of bobs 2012 return. I'm gonna suggest to CPA that they appoint an independent party to review the work done on my 2012 figures and if there's no issues I'll pay the fees but let them sort out the fees with bob if there's inaccuracies.

Thank god I left bob when I did or this issue would keep on getting worse.
Any ideas how the CPA themselves will proceed ?

Alan Shore

It is a shame when it ends like this.

Earlier you said you have only two calls with Bob and that he did not file your P35. Did Martin write to Bob just before the P35 was due to be filed, Bob could have assumed Martin was now acting.

I doubt Bob would make contact with Revenue he is as much at fault.

digzy

Alan Shore wrote: »

It is a shame when it ends like this.

Earlier you said you have only two calls with Bob and that he did not file your P35. Did Martin write to Bob just before the P35 was due to be filed, Bob could have assumed Martin was now acting.

I doubt Bob would make contact with Revenue he is as much at fault.

I only left bobs in feb. are they usually filed around this time of the year? maybe martin is sending the wind up me!!

CIARAN_BOYLE

digzy wrote: »

I only left bobs in feb. are they usually filed around this time of the year? maybe martin is sending the wind up me!!

P35 deadline if February 15

dbran

Did Bob send you a disengagement letter setting out their responsibilities to you post handover.

Presumably no.

dbran

Alan Shore

dbran wrote: »

Did Bob send you a disengagement letter setting their out responsibilities to you post handover.

Presumably no.

dbran

A disengagement letter - now that's one I've never come across before.

dbran

Alan Shore wrote: »

A disengagement letter - now that's one I've never come across before.

Yep

The kindly visitor from ACCA last January (aside from saying that we are just a great firm ), said that a client disengagement letter should be sent for every client who leaves setting out where our responsibilities ceases and where the new accountant's start.

We were previously just doing them for selective cases.

It strikes me as this is a classic case where such a letter would have been useful especially if as it seems, a falling out between both has happened.

dbran

Alan Shore

Agreed, the kindly visitors from the ACCA must be obeyed.

digzy

dbran wrote: »

Did Bob send you a disengagement letter setting out their responsibilities to you post handover.

Presumably no.

dbran

No, but to be fair I'm not bothered about that. I just wanna move on with my affairs, no interest in following a vendetta against him.

digzy

Latest on this,
There's an expense on the accounts completed by bob which to be fair significantly reduced the tax bill. Problem being that we cannot get any background for it from bob. it also sticks out like a sore thumb on the accounts. I rang bob on 4 occasions but he wont take my calls. Martin queried the transaction and bob replied via email that the expense was derived from figures I'd provided. martin feels that bobs practice is leaving themselves open on this one. I'm severely open from an audit point of view. Martin is caught between 2 stools. He's pointed out the implications of ignoring it and hoping for the best and of coming clean.
I'd rather put up my hands and just pay the tax and be able to sleep at night. However, someone has to pay for the 'professional service' of doing so.

I feel the CPA is my only option now. I really couldn't be bothered but I've no choice. any advice?