Help???????????????????

stephanie11

I received a letter from Irish Debt Bureau about an outstanding electric ireland bill, I rang them up to set up an installment plan and they said I could reduce the payment by 25% by paying the full amount i Didnt have it at the time but i was then told i could make the payments in 2 installments with it being reduced i agreed made a payment with my card on thursday and set another date for two weeks later. Found out today they took another payment the next day from my card without my permission and im now broke, are they actually allowed to do this and what exactly can i do about it?:mad:

foggy_lad

stephanie11 wrote: »

I received a letter from Irish Debt Bureau about an outstanding electric ireland bill, I rang them up to set up an installment plan and they said I could reduce the payment by 25% by paying the full amount i Didnt have it at the time but i was then told i could make the payments in 2 installments with it being reduced i agreed made a payment with my card on thursday and set another date for two weeks later. Found out today they took another payment the next day from my card without my permission and im now broke, are they actually allowed to do this and what exactly can i do about it?:mad:

No they are not allowed to do this! get onto your bank as soon as possible and tell them this is an unauthorised debit and insist they return the funds to your account immediately.(The bank are legally obliged to do this when they are informed that a debit is unauthorised.)

Pat Mustard

I would also recommend handing in a written complaint to Gardai about this.

Zambia

The Mustard wrote: »

I would also recommend handing in a written complaint to Gardai about this.

Good god why?

What offence is alleged?

Pat Mustard

Zambia wrote: »

Good god why?

What offence is alleged?

The OP says that they took money without her permission. Why would you not report it?

Zambia

The Mustard wrote: »

The OP says that they took money without her permission. Why would you not report it?

Ok so if you are correct who are the gardai going to arrest?

benway

Why would they need to arrest anyone unless the company idosn't cooperate with Garda inquiries?

Section 58 of the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001 provides for the personal criminal liability of directors, managers, company secretaries and any other officers of a corporate body for offences under that act which were nominally committed by the corporate body.

58. Liability for offences by bodies corporate and unincorporated
(1) Where—

(a) an offence under this Act has been committed by a body corporate, and

(b) the offence is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of, or to have been attributable to any neglect on the part of, a person who was either—

(i) a director, manager, secretary or other officer of the body corporate, or

(ii) a person purporting to act in any such capacity,

that person, as well as the body corporate, is guilty of an offence and liable to be proceeded against and punished as if he or she were guilty of the first-mentioned offence...

Situation per the OP seems to be complicated by the fact that there's an admitted liability, in respect of which arrangements were being made for payment, and it doesn't seem that there was an overpayment, even if the payment was levied at a different time to that agreed.

Under s.4 of the above act, theft is defined as "dishonestly appropriat[ing] property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it." Granted, the defence of an honest belief that the owner consented may well apply here, which would come down to a question of fact.

Still, I'd be inclined to agree that it seems on the face of it to be a matter for the Gardaí.

Zambia

Your going to condone an arrest of someone on a charge of theft of a few hundred euro that in two weeks they were going to get anyway. By taking the cash early they actually take less as they lose 25%.

If the Gardai are not going to arrest someone why are they involved?

This screams civil matter and a customer service issue at that.

Is there a Garda out there that would like to investigate this file?

benway

On its face, the ingredients of theft seem to be made out. There may be a good defence available, but levying money from someone's account without their consent and in wilful violation (per the op) of a previous arrangement is a very serious matter.

There should be no need to arrest anyone if they cooperate with the investigation of the offence voluntarily. However, theft is an arrestable offence, and the Gardaí have powers of arrest and detention pursuant to section 4, Criminal Justice Act, 1984 if thought necessary for the proper investigation of the offence.

Lets put it this way, if a debt collector arrived at your door and you acknowledged the debt and said that you were willing to pay, but that you'd need to schedule it in instalments because of your means, and you then made the first payment, but you found once they'd left that they'd lifted additional money from your wallet in violation of the agreement, would that not be theft?

That's essentially what's alleged to have happened per the op.