Fallen tree on boundary

TopCon

A tree on a bounds ditch of mine has fallen into me. It had very clearly grown on neighbours side, but has fallen into my field. Roots dug hole on his side.

It's a nice big ash tree. I was going to leave it to neighbour as it grew on his side. But ditch is now open as a result and my single strand fence is down.

I can't leave stock out until sorted.

Should I cut away and keep for firewood or is it his to do as he decides?

893bet

TopCon wrote: »

A tree on a bounds ditch of mine has fallen into me. It had very clearly grown on neighbours side, but has fallen into my field. Roots dug hole on his side.

It's a nice big ash tree. I was going to leave it to neighbour as it grew on his side. But ditch is now open as a result and my single strand fence is down.

I can't leave stock out until sorted.

Should I cut away and keep for firewood or is it his to do as he decides?

How well do u get on with this neighbour?

20silkcut

Fence around it and play it cool .

49801

Could you not put a double strand of temp fencing around it until it's cleaned up?
Can you ring him ask him what his plan is?

There is a heck of a lot of trees down in a lot of places and it's spring time so fellas just have not got time at the minute to clean it up.

We have a boundary with mature beech trees falling every 2-3 years and we alternate the clean up every 2nd one even though they are clearly grown on our side.

kevinm177

As far as I know it's whoever owns the land where the tree lands on keeps the timber regardless of where it grew. And if it falls on the road then anyone can cut it up. I could be wrong though

49801

kevinm177 wrote: »

As far as I know it's whoever owns the land where the tree lands on keeps the timber regardless of where it grew. And if it falls on the road then anyone can cut it up. I could be wrong though

Think you have it wrong way around.
Technically owner of the tree owns the timber... So if tree lands on your land and you cut it up you have to offer it to the owner of the tree.

IMO common sense should prevail though.... Timber is hard enough work and who ever does the work should keep the logs.

bbam

TopCon wrote: »

A tree on a bounds ditch of mine has fallen into me. It had very clearly grown on neighbours side, but has fallen into my field. Roots dug hole on his side.

It's a nice big ash tree. I was going to leave it to neighbour as it grew on his side. But ditch is now open as a result and my single strand fence is down.

I can't leave stock out until sorted.

Should I cut away and keep for firewood or is it his to do as he decides?

Ya could talk to him and see.

Genghis Cant

bbam wrote: »

Ya could talk to him and see.

The two of ye get at it, 2 saws and mow through it. Split the proceeds, everyone happy, and a chance to bond :-)

49801

Genghis Cant wrote: »

The two of ye get at it, 2 saws and mow through it. Split the proceeds, everyone happy, and a chance to bond :-)

+1

Btw does he even know it's fallen?

O.A.P

TopCon wrote: »

A tree on a bounds ditch of mine has fallen into me. It had very clearly grown on neighbours side, but has fallen into my field. Roots dug hole on his side.

It's a nice big ash tree. I was going to leave it to neighbour as it grew on his side. But ditch is now open as a result and my single strand fence is down.

I can't leave stock out until sorted.

Should I cut away and keep for firewood or is it his to do as he decides?

What ,Why or When did asking your neighbor first become not an option ?
That's what I would do anyway.
Offer to clean up the mess and build up the gap, keep the timber.
See what he says ?

TopCon

Relations with this neighbour aren't the greatest when it comes to boundary fencing or should I say lack of on his side.

Have had his stock break in on numerous occasions in past. He wouldn't be the tidiest of operators.

I'm pretty sure he will insist the tree is his if I say it to him, which is fine except I don't want to be looking at it all year and fencing around it etc...

I was just hoping somebody could point out exactly who's responsible and who owns the timber.

I do not want to spend a day cutting it,then spending time and money repairing gap, only for him to come demanding his timber.

Nor do I want to be chasing his cattle out of my place or my stock out of his ground.

O.A.P

He owns it I'm afraid.


Time to talk to him the worst he can do is say no.


Then give him a few weeks to do it and if he don't then cut away and keep the timber, let him prove its his if he wants it back.

Muckit

If the tree is the OPs neighbours. .... how is the neighbour going to cut it or remove it without trespassing? ?

If it's fallen on your side OP it is yours. A boundary ditch is 50/50.

Well that's the way it works around here. Have a few cut up in the last week and no neighbours trying to take them out of the shed! !

Sam Kade

O.A.P wrote: »

He owns it I'm afraid.


Time to talk to him the worst he can do is say no.


Then give him a few weeks to do it and if he don't then cut away and keep the timber, let him prove its his if he wants it back.

The neighbour will have to have access to the land to cut the tree. I wouldn't let anyone onto my land to cut trees.

TopCon

O.A.P wrote: »

He owns it I'm afraid.


Time to talk to him the worst he can do is say no.


Then give him a few weeks to do it and if he don't then cut away and keep the timber, let him prove its his if he wants it back.

Right cheers for that. If its his tree he's more than welcome to it. Il talk to him and give him a few weeks to do it.

Any idea the story with insurance as he will be on my farm, cutting his tree. God forbid anything would happen, but am I liable if there is an accident?

TopCon

Sam Kade wrote: »

The neighbour will have to have access to the land to cut the tree. I wouldn't let anyone onto my land to cut trees.

My thoughts exactly.... Especially seeing as same fella is dog rough....

evolving_doors

O.A.P wrote: »

He owns it I'm afraid.


Time to talk to him the worst he can do is say no.


Then give him a few weeks to do it and if he don't then cut away and keep the timber, let him prove its his if he wants it back.

Does anyone here actually know what the law is?..from a non farming perspective... If I have an apple tree and there is a branch overhanging into neighbours then they are entitled to cut it/keep it/keep the apples or throw the cut branches back onto my side without any recourse.
From that point of view op the tree is not a property which can be returned and put back up (like a knocked fence)...

Take a photo to show you didn't fell it yourself...then chop it up and put back a fence (let him keep the stump). Keep all the wood in a shed for a few months (which you will be doing anyway to season). If he comes a bulling then tell him that the wood is in the shed and hed need to call around soon as you need the shed for something.

Chances are hell not even notice that the tree is down by the sounds of things.

Neighbourly thing to do is give him a ring and put the ball in his court... I reckon either way you'll be doing the work..

You could knock a tree onto his side and see what he does first too!

Sam Kade

TopCon wrote: »

Right cheers for that. If its his tree he's more than welcome to it. Il talk to him and give him a few weeks to do it.

Any idea the story with insurance as he will be on my farm, cutting his tree. God forbid anything would happen, but am I liable if there is an accident?

You will have to add employers liability to you farm insurance around 200 year. I don't know how letting a neighbour in to cut a tree works.

Sam Kade

Armelodie wrote: »

Does anyone here actually know what the law is?..from a non farming perspective... If I have an apple tree and there is a branch overhanging into neighbours then they are entitled to cut it/keep it/keep the apples or throw the cut branches back onto my side without any recourse.
From that point of view op the tree is not a property which can be returned and put back up (like a knocked fence)...

Take a photo to show you didn't fell it yourself...then chop it up and put back a fence (let him keep the stump). Keep all the wood in a shed for a few months (which you will be doing anyway to season). If he comes a bulling then tell him that the wood is in the shed and hed need to call around soon as you need the shed for something.

Chances are hell not even notice that the tree is down by the sounds of things.

Neighbourly thing to do is give him a ring and put the ball in his court... I reckon either way you'll be doing the work..

You could knock a tree onto his side and see what he does first too!

As long as the tree is less than 10 yrs old

mf240

You could cut it up in lengths and drop it up to his yard where he can finish ringing it and splitting it.

Very same thing happened here during storm but myself and the neighbour are very friendly so it's a no bother.

893bet

Sam Kade wrote: »

You will have to add employers liability to you farm insurance around 200 year. I don't know how letting a neighbour in to cut a tree works.

I don't think employes would be covered for chainsaw use even unless a special policy. We wanted to hire a neighbour to do some thinning and enquired would he he covered under our employee liability insurance and were told no, mentioned he would need to have done special courses in chainsaw use etc then a special add on insurance.

And every farmer should have EL anyway to cover anyone working on the farm be it casually or a neighbour helping for a hour free of charge ?

Sam Kade

893bet wrote: »

I don't think employes would be covered for chainsaw use even unless a special policy. We wanted to hire a neighbour to do some thinning and enquired would he e covered under out employee liability insurance and were told no, mentioned he would need to have done special courses in chainsaw use etc then a special add on insurance.

And every farmer should have EL anyway to cover anyone working on the farm be it casually or a neighbour helping for a hour free of charge ?

That's what I was thinking, they won't insure every Tom, Dick and Harry to use a chainsaw without the necessary training.

49801

OP.
Think it's the right thing to do to say it to neighbour first.
If no move outta him in 4wks cut it to lengths at gently push the lot on his side .

On the insurance side of things I would not be asking him his business.
Just as long as you have your own public liability insurance... but I am no expert!

893bet

49801 wrote: »

OP.
Think it's the right thing to do to say it to neighbour first.
If no move outta him in 4wks cut it to lengths at gently push the lot on his side .

On the insurance side of things I would not be asking him his business.
Just as long as you have your own public liability insurance... but I am no expert!

The point is if he comes on to your land to cut it then it is your own insurance that is at risk. Or if you don't have cover are you personally liable for giving him permission if he gets hurt.

kevinm177

checked around here today and everyone says that if it lands in your land it is your tree. maybe thats just around around here though

O.A.P

Its his tree same as if his stock broke onto your land, they still belong to him and you can make things worse by asking him for insurance to drive them out.
Why bother we have to live beside each other, so a bit of give and take works well.
I'm sure it happens but I don't know of any case where a farmer sued his neighbor for fixing a fence and got hurt on his side (land)
Trees that grow over a boundary wall can be cut back but the timber (offcuts) belong to the farm they came from.
I live beside an old rectory and get timber every year falling over the wall (200 meters or more ) I cut it up, burn it and build the wall so far no problems.
We work together never a cross word .
Big change from the old mans time.

Mr.Fred

you'd be liable if he's cutting it on your land. Have him drag it back across the ditch and he can go at it as and when he wants.

49801

Sam Kade wrote: »

You will have to add employers liability to you farm insurance around 200 year. I don't know how letting a neighbour in to cut a tree works.

Why?
The neighbour would not be an employee unless the OP is paying him to cut up his own timber:pac:

Sam Kade

49801 wrote: »

Why?
The neighbour would not be an employee unless the OP is paying him to cut up his own timber:pac:

Pay or no pay he's working on your land if he injures himself what proof would you give in court to prove otherwise?

893bet

49801 wrote: »

Why?
The neighbour would not be an employee unless the OP is paying him to cut up his own timber:pac:

He would be classified as voluntary unpaid worker I would assume. Similar to a neighbour giving you a hand squeezing a bull etc. Not being paid but "working" temporarily on your land meaning they are under your insurance.

Farmer Pudsey

kevinm177 wrote: »

checked around here today and everyone says that if it lands in your land it is your tree. maybe thats just around around here though

Incorrect the tree belong to whoever's land it grew on. Any branches overhanging your land you can cut at the bounds provided you return hime the branches/timber.

Sam Kade wrote: »

Pay or no pay he's working on your land if he injures himself what proof would you give in court to prove otherwise?

I would think if he is on your land he is an uninvited guest. Therefore if anything happens it is his own liability. He is cutting up his own tree. Just because it is on your land is immaterial.

Sam Kade

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Incorrect the tree belong to whoever's land it grew on. Any branches overhanging your land you can cut at the bounds provided you return hime the branches/timber.



I would think if he is on your land he is an uninvited guest. Therefore if anything happens it is his own liability. He is cutting up his own tree. Just because it is on your land is immaterial.

If he asks for permission to cut the tree and you allow him in he is invited in otherwise it would be your word against his.

Farmer Pudsey

Sam Kade wrote: »

If he asks for permission to cut the tree and you allow him in he is invited in otherwise it would be your word against his.

If he asked permission I be telling him that I will not interfere with him cutting but that if he enters my land he is an uninvited guest. I would outline the legal situtation to him.

TopCon

I spoke to my neighbour about the tree.

He told me to work away cutting it as long as I brought him half the timber. cut and split mind you!!!

So I cut the handiest and cleanest of it into logs and brought it to the yard. I then used the loader to lift the heaviest and the light stuff off it back onto the ditch to seal the gap. Did a fine job of sealing it off, if I may say so myself.

He can f@@k off if he thinks I'm going to keep his toes warm, more than half of it is on the ditch if he wants it.

Honestly he not the worst, but so mean and tight, always trying to be one step ahead and get one over on ya. That attitude drives me mental.

Thanks for the advice all!!

O.A.P

Good a fair out come. hope it warms you twice.

evolving_doors

O.A.P wrote: »

Good a fair out come. hope it warms you twice.

How is that fair? The agreement was they 'split' the wood... The op didn'tappear to have given the farmer his half... Instead he 'took half the neighbours wood to warm his own toes... 'getting one over' comes to mind!

Nekarsulm

There was no agreement. The tree owner made an "Invitation to treat" the OP did not accept. The owner of the tree has half the tree back and the boundary damaged by his fallen property has been repaired, without him having to lift a finger. Seems about right. If the neighbour wants to take it to court, I wouldn't worry too much.

O.A.P

Armelodie wrote: »

How is that fair? The agreement was they 'split' the wood... The op didn'tappear to have given the farmer his half... Instead he 'took half the neighbours wood to warm his own toes... 'getting one over' comes to mind!

That's about as fair as it gets . The neighbors tree falls into his field and breaks the fence.
He clears it up mends the fence and keeps half the timber.
His neighbor wanted it cut and split and left to his yard I suppose, now that's getting one over.
How would he get on if it had fell out on the road?

evolving_doors

Nekarsulm wrote: »

There was no agreement. The tree owner made an "Invitation to treat" the OP did not accept. The owner of the tree has half the tree back and the boundary damaged by his fallen property has been repaired, without him having to lift a finger. Seems about right. If the neighbour wants to take it to court, I wouldn't worry too much.

HAve a look below for the 'agreement' . I've put it in bold and underlined..

TopCon wrote: »

I spoke to my neighbour about the tree.

He told me to work away cutting it as long as I brought him half the timber. cut and split mind you!!!

So I cut the handiest and cleanest of it into logs and brought it to the yard. I then used the loader to lift the heaviest and the light stuff off it back onto the ditch to seal the gap. Did a fine job of sealing it off, if I may say so myself.

He can f@@k off if he thinks I'm going to keep his toes warm, more than half of it is on the ditch if he wants it.

Honestly he not the worst, but so mean and tight, always trying to be one step ahead and get one over on ya. That attitude drives me mental.

Thanks for the advice all!!

Look this aint going to court.. however... the OP said that the neighbour was ' always trying to be one step ahead and get one over on ya. ' however in fairness the neighbour is still waiting for his half of the wood ! If that isn;t a broken agreement that creates animosity between neighbours then I don;t know what is.

mf240

Lads this is all getting very complicated sounds like a job for the "Special branch"

evolving_doors

O.A.P wrote: »

That's about as fair as it gets . The neighbors tree falls into his field and breaks the fence.
He clears it up mends the fence and keeps half the timber.
His neighbor wanted it cut and split and left to his yard I suppose, now that's getting one over.
How would he get on if it had fell out on the road?

Falling on the road is a different matter... Your above opinion is moot because it goes against the 'agreement' that was agreed to!

O.A.P

Armelodie wrote: »

Falling on the road is a different matter... Your above opinion is moot because it goes against the 'agreement' that was agreed to!

The op did not agree obviously

zoe 3619

Believe anything on youre side of the boundary to be yours.you can't take the whole tree,but cut it where the fence should be,replace the fence and keep the wood.have heard of this before in relation to people keeping fruit etc from overhanging trees.had to cut up a few trees ourselves after recent winds.all we're growing on other folks land but blocked our lane when they fell.cut enough up to be able to get cars out.no complaints.if you feel you can't do that,put the onus in him to make the fence right.

farmersfriend

TopCon wrote: »

I spoke to my neighbour about the tree.

He told me to work away cutting it as long as I brought him half the timber. cut and split mind you!!!

So I cut the handiest and cleanest of it into logs and brought it to the yard. I then used the loader to lift the heaviest and the light stuff off it back onto the ditch to seal the gap. Did a fine job of sealing it off, if I may say so myself.

He can f@@k off if he thinks I'm going to keep his toes warm, more than half of it is on the ditch if he wants it.

Honestly he not the worst, but so mean and tight, always trying to be one step ahead and get one over on ya. That attitude drives me mental.

Thanks for the advice all!!

I think u did the right thing. id say he was chancing his arm asking u to cut and split it for him. Gap is fixed. Tree is sorted. mess cleaned up. Everyone happy

TopCon

Nekarsulm wrote: »

There was no agreement. The tree owner made an "Invitation to treat" the OP did not accept.

Exactly. At no point did I agree to cut, split and deliver half the tree to him. I merely laughed him off when he insisted I do such. The reason being to avoid confrontation.

If he now wants to sue me for stealing half his tree I can only do my best to defend myself.

As far as I'm concerned any timber logs in my yard are from my own trees. I merely cut up that paticular tree and pushed it all neatly to the ditch for him to do as he pleases...

I have never been a source of grief to this neighbour ( to my knowledge) and I'm sick of him being indifferent and shrugging his shoulders when his stock break into my land.

Under no circumstances would I let same person onto my land with a chainsaw. I thought long and hard about this and felt it was the best thing to do.

If it was any other of the four farms bounding me this would never have been an issue.

evolving_doors

Fair enough op if thats the endof it then so be it. Id agree he orobably would have left it rot anyway. I think I would have done the same with the tree (but not gone near him to give him cause to bargain).