89 Fiat Ducato 2.5 - What to look for?

trad

I've been made aware of a 1989 Fiat Ducato 2.5 turbo diesel camper for sale by a work colleague. It's LHD and been lying up for a year or so.

It's not unlike this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Fiat_Ducato_I_Camper_front_20081229.jpg

Had a quick look at it on the way home (owner not present) and it looks all there, No DOE or tax but is registered as a camper and is Irish reg.

Where should I be looking for as regards corrosion etc and what are the known faults with these vans? Other than a good wash and a bit of tee cut it looks fine, well shod with a new exhaust.

Any info most welcome

It'll be my first camper if the wife ok's it.

trad

Anyone?

had a better look today.It's a Dethleffs Globetrotter. Needs a little tlc. 150k kilometers.

Asking €2K

swarlb

trad wrote: »

Anyone?

had a better look today.It's a Dethleffs Globetrotter. Needs a little tlc. 150k kilometers.

Asking €2K

From a parts perspective (not the living quarters) the van basically runs up to 1994. Some items are getting hard to get (in this part of the world at least), headlamps, steering parts if required. Most other parts are still available, although some body panels if rusty can be expensive to locate.
If it were me I'd check for rust, rust and rust. Rear spring hangers, front suspension components, steering links. Even check for rust on the engine sump. On the body, the door bottoms, front panel, chassis where the front suspension lower arms locate.
2k is obviously a good price, but you don't need to be spending a further amount trying to sort things out.

trad

Thanks for that. Had a good look under the back end and it looked very clean. Doors seem fine. Dash etc look good for the year.

I'll go back and have another look and bring the wife with me this time.

timmy4u2

trad wrote: »

I've been made aware of a 1989 Fiat Ducato 2.5 turbo diesel camper for sale by a work colleague. It's LHD and been lying up for a year or so.

It's not unlike this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Fiat_Ducato_I_Camper_front_20081229.jpg

Had a quick look at it on the way home (owner not present) and it looks all there, No DOE or tax but is registered as a camper and is Irish reg.

Where should I be looking for as regards corrosion etc and what are the known faults with these vans? Other than a good wash and a bit of tee cut it looks fine, well shod with a new exhaust.

Any info most welcome

It'll be my first camper if the wife ok's it.

The chassis on these is usually fairly good. Seldom used in winter so no salt to start the rust.
The rear spring hangers are a known rust place but they are very easy to see and check out.
The front suspension areas are usually good.
The bottom of the doors are prone to rust but not a hard job to repair.
The post 94 doors will fit.
The scuttle panel just under the windscreen is a serious rust area. This panel can be sourced in the UK for around stg £40.00 but it is a reasonably big job to fit as the windscreen needs to come out, unless you take a short cut and lay it on the old one.

If that panel was very rusty you need to look up under the dash as this area can be seriously rusted if the scuttle panel was neglected.
Another area is the inner wings. Press your hands against the inner wings just over the wheel arch seam.

The wheel arches are double skinned so press hard with your fingers, or a screwdriver inside the front wheel arches.(from outside the cab as opposed to from inside under the bonnet, over the front wheels)
From a safety point of view there is a brake pipe that goes down the bulkhead towards the passenger side and just where it goes out of sight there is a joining. The pipe, for some strange reason can rust here and let go without warning.

swarlb

timmy4u2 wrote: »

The chassis on these is usually fairly good. Seldom used in winter so no salt to start the rust.
The rear spring hangers are a known rust place but they are very easy to see and check out.
The front suspension areas are usually good.
The bottom of the doors are prone to rust but not a hard job to repair.
The post 94 doors will fit.
The scuttle panel just under the windscreen is a serious rust area. This panel can be sourced in the UK for around stg £40.00 but it is a reasonably big job to fit as the windscreen needs to come out, unless you take a short cut and lay it on the old one.

If that panel was very rusty you need to look up under the dash as this area can be seriously rusted if the scuttle panel was neglected.
Another area is the inner wings. Press your hands against the inner wings just over the wheel arch seam.

The wheel arches are double skinned so press hard with your fingers, or a screwdriver inside the front wheel arches.(from outside the cab as opposed to from inside under the bonnet, over the front wheels)
From a safety point of view there is a brake pipe that goes down the bulkhead towards the passenger side and just where it goes out of sight there is a joining. The pipe, for some strange reason can rust here and let go without warning.

The Ducato body and suspension set up change completely in 1994. No parts from a 1994 on van will suit a pre 1994 van, certainly not doors.

moodrater

swarlb wrote: »

The Ducato body and suspension set up change completely in 1994. No parts from a 1994 on van will suit a pre 1994 van, certainly not doors.

Apparently you can fit the doors which is really good to know I would never even have guessed.
http://www.talbotoc.com/doors-t10942.html

swarlb

moodrater wrote: »

Apparently you can fit the doors which is really good to know I would never even have guessed.
http://www.talbotoc.com/doors-t10942.html

That is not a post 1994 van, its the earlier type. The 'Nuovo' Ducato came out in 1994 and ran up till early 2002, when the facelift version came out and ran till 2006. Doors from 1994 till 2006 are the same, wings, bonnets, headlamps, bumpers are different from 1994 to 2002 and from 2002 till 2006.
Fiat had, and still have a habit of running both early and late models at the same time. So you can have 1994 versions of both vans. While the doors will fit between 1983 and 1994, there was a cosmetic change. Early doors have a 'square' window frame, while the late ones have a slant to the lower edge. The wings have a 'swage' line to suit the door shape, as well as different front end modifications.

timmy4u2

swarlb wrote: »

The Ducato body and suspension set up change completely in 1994. No parts from a 1994 on van will suit a pre 1994 van, certainly not doors.

Yes the doors will fit. Have you tried?

Have a look at a 2006 van here. Window may be different and a few outerskin lines slightly different.
http://ipocars.com/vinfo/fiat/ducato_15_2_3_jtd-2006.html

swarlb

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Yes the doors will fit. Have you tried?

Have a look at a 2006 van here. Window may be different and a few outerskin lines slightly different.
http://ipocars.com/vinfo/fiat/ducato_15_2_3_jtd-2006.html

I don't wish to labour the point, but this is a 1994 Ducato early type. Trust me, the body panels are different.

timmy4u2

swarlb wrote: »

I don't wish to labour the point, but this is a 1994 Ducato early type. Trust me, the body panels are different.

Well, we have to tease it out.
What do you say to this post by a member of the talbot owners club

 Post subject: Re: doorsPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:08 pm Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:32 pmPosts: 94 Has thanked: 27 time Have thanks: 16 time Location: South East membership_no: 0Hi MarkWe have a 1988 Camelot Mk1 with the later doors fitted. It was done by previous owner but I think there exactly the same apart from the shape of the glass which slopes down on the front edge of the new doors. Personally I don't think you will have any problems.Good Luck Gray

swarlb

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Well, we have to tease it out.
What do you say to this post by a member of the talbot owners club

I'm not bothering to read it, and I'll tell you why. The Fiat Ducato first appeared in 1983, basically a 'square body shape'. In 1990 there was a facelifted version. Structurally the same as the earlier version, but with changes to the door and wing line. As I mentioned in the another post, the difference was the early van had square windows, and the later one had a slope at the bottom end, lining itself with the front wing, and allowing better visibility. The front bumper/grille assembly was also changed, with a re-location of indicator/side lamps.
The front suspension set up was basically a strut/spring assembly with a lower track control arm and a link rod attached to the chassis.
In 1994 the Nuovo Ducato was introduced. A completely new van, with completely different chassis, body panels door etc. This model ran to 2002 where it was facelifted with different headlamp/grille changed. Changes to bumpers, mirrors also.
This version ran to 2006 where the more or less current model appeared.
The front suspension retained a similar strut/spring assembly, but was linked at the lower end by a wishbone rather than the earlier track control arm.
Other changes along the way would have of course been to engines/gearboxes/braking systems.
The other most notable difference between the pre 1994 vans, and post 1994 vans is the gearbox. Of which owners of pre '94 vans will no doubt have had difficulty in location replacements.
If anyone here wishes to verify the above information, I will be happy to forward the relevant data.
Since early 1977 to today, I have been employed by a single company, its name is FIAT SpA.

It is not possible to fit doors from any pre 1994 Ducato, to a post 1994 Ducato, which was the original topic of discussion. No-where did I mention that it was not possible to fit doors from the 1983/1990 model between the 1990/1994 model. As I said, I don't wish to labour the point, but it may save someone the headache of attempting to do something that is not possible.

trad

Thanks for all the info.
Doors are in good shape with no rust apparent, same with the windscreen area. I looked at the rear suspension and chassis and nothing frightening there. I'll have a look at the front when it's moved from it's current position.

timmy4u2

swarlb wrote: »

I'm not bothering to read it, and I'll tell you why. The Fiat Ducato first appeared in 1983, basically a 'square body shape'. In 1990 there was a facelifted version. Structurally the same as the earlier version, but with changes to the door and wing line. As I mentioned in the another post, the difference was the early van had square windows, and the later one had a slope at the bottom end, lining itself with the front wing, and allowing better visibility. The front bumper/grille assembly was also changed, with a re-location of indicator/side lamps.
The front suspension set up was basically a strut/spring assembly with a lower track control arm and a link rod attached to the chassis.
In 1994 the Nuovo Ducato was introduced. A completely new van, with completely different chassis, body panels door etc. This model ran to 2002 where it was facelifted with different headlamp/grille changed. Changes to bumpers, mirrors also.
This version ran to 2006 where the more or less current model appeared.
The front suspension retained a similar strut/spring assembly, but was linked at the lower end by a wishbone rather than the earlier track control arm.
Other changes along the way would have of course been to engines/gearboxes/braking systems.
The other most notable difference between the pre 1994 vans, and post 1994 vans is the gearbox. Of which owners of pre '94 vans will no doubt have had difficulty in location replacements.
If anyone here wishes to verify the above information, I will be happy to forward the relevant data.
Since early 1977 to today, I have been employed by a single company, its name is FIAT SpA.

It is not possible to fit doors from any pre 1994 Ducato, to a post 1994 Ducato, which was the original topic of discussion. No-where did I mention that it was not possible to fit doors from the 1983/1990 model between the 1990/1994 model. As I said, I don't wish to labour the point, but it may save someone the headache of attempting to do something that is not possible.

And did the Citroen and Talbot have the same changes at the same time?
I am a member of the Talbot owners club and I took their word on the door change, though I did come across more than a few donkey posts there

moodrater

timmy4u2 wrote: »

And did the Citroen and Talbot have the same changes at the same time?
I am a member of the Talbot owners club and I took their word on the door change, though I did come across more than a few donkey posts there

I think the confusion is people referring to the facelift version as a mk2.

swarlb

timmy4u2 wrote: »

And did the Citroen and Talbot have the same changes at the same time?
I am a member of the Talbot owners club and I took their word on the door change, though I did come across more than a few donkey posts there

There was no Talbot version of the van from 1994 onwards. I think you may be confusing what people refer to when they talk about the different versions.
Puegeot/Fiat/Citroen vans continue to this day with the same modifications.
This is not meant to be a debate about who is right and who is wrong, but a forum for helping people with problems.
The timeline is 1983/1990, 1990/1994, 1994/2002, 2002/2006, 2006/present.
Now while there may be overlaps, as in there may be a few 1990/1994 registered in 1995 or 2002/2006 registered in 2007 for example.
1990/1994 vans are not the same, in any shape form or fashion, mechanically or otherwise as 1994/2002 vans.
If you don't believe me, that's entirely your choice.
The model pictured in post #9 is of a 2002/2006 van, trust me when I tell you this, practically every single component used to build this van is different to the 1990/1994 version.

timmy4u2

swarlb wrote: »

There was no Talbot version of the van from 1994 onwards. I think you may be confusing what people refer to when they talk about the different versions.
Puegeot/Fiat/Citroen vans continue to this day with the same modifications.
This is not meant to be a debate about who is right and who is wrong, but a forum for helping people with problems.
The timeline is 1983/1990, 1990/1994, 1994/2002, 2002/2006, 2006/present.
Now while there may be overlaps, as in there may be a few 1990/1994 registered in 1995 or 2002/2006 registered in 2007 for example.
1990/1994 vans are not the same, in any shape form or fashion, mechanically or otherwise as 1994/2002 vans.
If you don't believe me, that's entirely your choice.]/b]
The model pictured in post #9 is of a 2002/2006 van, trust me when I tell you this, practically every single component used to build this van is different to the 1990/1994 version.

I do not know what your problem is. I am not challenging you.
Just requesting you to impart your knowledge as it is a matter that I will be dealing with next month and I have not fully researched it.
My only authority, so far is the talbot owners club

swarlb

timmy4u2 wrote: »

I do not know what your problem is. I am not challenging you.
Just requesting you to impart your knowledge as it is a matter that I will be dealing with next month and I have not fully researched it.
My only authority, so far is the talbot owners club

What would you like to know ?

ianobrien

nother rust area to check is the front wings. The wings can rust both at the wheel arches and the top where they are welded to the windscreen scuttle panel. I don't know if replacements are available but as they are welded on they can be labour intensive to replace. Mechanically they are tough ol' boots. At this age, I'd be checking rubber hoses and bushes for age/cracking. Some mechanical parts may be unavailable from Fiat but spurious ones should be no problem to get. I'd borrow or steal a damp-meter to check the coachbuilt for damp. Make sure to use your nose and eyes to look for damp patches.

Rear springs may be tired at this stage after carrying that weight for 25 years.

Have fun and make sure that the layout is suitable for you. There is nothing worse than a layout that isn't suitable for your needs.

Aidan_M_M

As another person who works almost exclusively on Ducatos , every single comment by Swarlb is correct, whether it's badged Talbot Express , Citroen c25 or Fiat Ducato/Talento, none of the body parts or indeed suspension on a van made after 1994 will fit a pre 1994.