Letting a golfer play through?

doenahs

Hi all,

I was lucky to be out having a casual round in the midlands yesterday afternoon.

I was playing by myself when I caught up to 3 players on the 3rd hole.

Usually when this happens I would normally be let through but to my amasement (and to be honest annoyance) they did not let me through.

I played 9 and was constantly waiting to play. I was always at the green putting when they were teeing off at the next hole.

Don't get me wrong - there was no one behind me so I played a few extra shots here and there to practice.

They clearly saw me and at one stage went looking for a ball when I was ready on the tee box.

I know that single golfers have no right when being allowed to play through but I thought that it was clear to see that I would not have held them up if allowed through.

Just looking for some thoughts?

Cheers.

Redzah

doenahs wrote: »

Hi all,

I was lucky to be out having a casual round in the midlands yesterday afternoon.

I was playing by myself when I caught up to 3 players on the 3rd hole.

Usually when this happens I would normally be let through but to my amasement (and to be honest annoyance) they did not let me through.

I played 9 and was constantly waiting to play. I was always at the green putting when they were teeing off at the next hole.

Don't get me wrong - there was no one behind me so I played a few extra shots here and there to practice.

They clearly saw me and at one stage went looking for a ball when I was ready on the tee box.

I know that single golfers have no right when being allowed to play through but I thought that it was clear to see that I would not have held them up if allowed through.

Just looking for some thoughts?

Cheers.

I think a couple of things need to be clarified here before judgement can be passed;

1. Was there anybody in front of them?
2. Were they in a competition?
3. Do they have greater golf course rights than you? i.e. are u a student member?

If no is they answer to all three then it is bad etiquette in my opinion.

A quick question for you, if the answer to my first question is no, then why did you not just pick up your ball and skip ahead of them i.e. walk to place where you are a full hole ahead of them and play away?

SnowDrifts

doenahs wrote: »

I know that single golfers have no right when being allowed to play through but I thought that it was clear to see that I would not have held them up if allowed through.

Just looking for some thoughts?

Cheers.

This is all school thinking and is completely not true so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I would promptly and politely request to be let through.

The following can be found in the etiquette section of the rules..

Priority On The Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

A quick question for you, if the answer to my first question is no, then why did you not just pick up your ball and skip ahead of them i.e. walk to place where you are a full hole ahead of them and play away?

Are you serious? The OP should have to pick up and walk to another hole because of some idiots ignorant to the rules? I don't think so.

Carpo86

Redzah wrote: »

I think a couple of things need to be clarified here before judgement can be passed;

1. Was there anybody in front of them?
2. Were they in a competition?
3. Do they have greater golf course rights than you? i.e. are u a student member?

If no is they answer to all three then it is bad etiquette in my opinion.

A quick question for you, if the answer to my first question is no, then why did you not just pick up your ball and skip ahead of them i.e. walk to place where you are a full hole ahead of them and play away?

Don't really see the logic as to why it would be ok if it was a student (or junior) member but not if it was a 'full' member. If the person has the right to be on the course at that particular time I think surely they have the same rights to be let through as anyone else.

Redzah

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Are you serious? The OP should have to pick up and walk to another hole because of some idiots ignorant to the rules? I don't think so.

Well wouldn't the possibility of playing 15 holes better than playing 9 slow holes?

I would query the practicality of the citiation you posted as well. What happens if a 2 ball is playing on a course that is totally full of 4 balls? On the basis that they could play faster than all the 4 balls in front of them, is there an expectation that each group is to leave them through despite being up with play? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

Well wouldn't it be better than playing 9 slow holes?

I would query the practicality of the citiation you posted as well. What happens if a 2 ball is playing on a course that is totally full of 4 balls? On the basis that they could play faster than all the 4 balls in front of them, is there an expectation that each group is to leave them through despite being up with play? Seems a bit ridiculous to me.

It would be better if the ignorant group let the OP through. Common sense should prevail in your 4 ball and 2 ball scenario above in that if your group is falling behind and not keeping up with the group in front, you let the group behind (irrespective of numbers) through.

Arsenium

I have played a few times on my own in the last few years (evenings on the way home from work etc). Most people are fine but sometimes you meet assholes like this. So I decided to get the clarification that Snowdrifts provides above.

They should have called you through and you had the right to tell them you wanted to play through.

BoardsMember

Of the three questions asked....the third really depresses me, I grew up with that kind of crap and gave golf up for years because of it: ball in the chute, me and my friends next to play, member after member asking would I mind if they go ahead. I hope you're not one of those that treats people based on the category of membership, frankly it is disgusting. If they are in comp I still think that common courtesy would prevail and allow the golfer through. You have to be a special type of pr1ck to play 18 holes with someone behind you waiting on every shot and not be in any way bothered by it.

Redzah

Carpo86 wrote: »

Don't really see the logic as to why it would be ok if it was a student (or junior) member but not if it was a 'full' member. If the person has the right to be on the course at that particular time I think surely they have the same rights to be let through as anyone else.

Many clubs would still have either a written or unwritten rule that full paying members have priority over non full paying members when the course is not within competition time. Another example would be preference given to the adult if a junior and adult arrive on the tee (neither with a tee time booked) at the same time (or even the junior arriving before).

To be clear, i am not at all in favour of the above but it appears to happen in many golf clubs and is a local rule in many.

Redzah

SnowDrifts wrote: »

It would be better if the ignorant group let the OP through. Common sense should prevail in your 4 ball and 2 ball scenario above in that if your group is falling behind and not keeping up with the group in front, you let the group behind (irrespective of numbers) through.

But based on your citation there is no reference to common sense or judgement. In my scenario, based on your citation if the 4 ball group is not falling behind they would still have to let a 2 ball through (as would the next group and the next etc.) despite the fact that the course is full of 4 balls and moving slowly anyway.

Also the OP hasn't answered the question as to whether they were groups ahead and if the course was busy. If the course was quiet then I agree that he should have been let ahead.

However, if the course was busy and there were numerous groups ahead and the group in front of him were keeping up with play then I believe they were not ignorant at all and did the right thing. Further clarification from the OP on the specific circumstances would certainly help?

doenahs

Hi all,

To answer the questions so far.

-There was a group ahead of them at the start but they were long gone - lets just say the 3 lads ahead of me were slow.
-It didn't look like they were in a competition
-I was there on a green fee.

I would normally have picked up by ball and skipped to the next hole but I wanted to play the holes as they came as hadn't played the course before.

I would have thought that they would have let me through so that they would go back to not having a lad looking on at them from every tee box but it wasn't to be.

It happened to see me at they walked off every tee box as I wanted on - I would just go back to the last green and do some chipping.

There is no use letting someone through when there are more players ahead but there was wide open spaces ahead of us.

Carpo86

Redzah wrote: »

Many clubs would still have either a written or unwritten rule that full paying members have priority over non full paying members when the course is not within competition time. Another example would be preference given to the adult if a junior and adult arrive on the tee (neither with a tee time booked) at the same time (or even the junior arriving before).

To be clear, i am not at all in favour of the above but it appears to happen in many golf clubs and is a local rule in many.

If such a rule is written it's the sign of a very backward establishment in my view. If it is 'unwritten', it should be ignored.

Redzah

doenahs wrote: »

Hi all,

To answer the questions so far.

-There was a group ahead of them at the start but they were long gone - lets just say the 3 lads ahead of me were slow.
-It didn't look like they were in a competition
-I was there on a green fee.

I would normally have picked up by ball and skipped to the next hole but I wanted to play the holes as they came as hadn't played the course before.

I would have thought that they would have let me through so that they would go back to not having a lad looking on at them from every tee box but it wasn't to be.

It happened to see me at they walked off every tee box as I wanted on - I would just go back to the last green and do some chipping.

There is no use letting someone through when there are more players ahead but there was wide open spaces ahead of us.

Agreed and you should have been let through. The open space ahead is deciding factor in my view.

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

But based on your citation there is no reference to common sense or judgement. In my scenario, based on your citation if the 4 ball group is not falling behind they would still have to let a 2 ball through (as would the next group and the next etc.) despite the fact that the course is full of 4 balls and moving slowly anyway.

Also the OP hasn't answered the question as to whether they were groups ahead and if the course was busy. If the course was quiet then I agree that he should have been let ahead.

However, if the course was busy and there were numerous groups ahead and the group in front of him were keeping up with play then I believe they were not ignorant at all and did the right thing. Further clarification from the OP on the specific circumstances would certainly help?

The OP stated that there was no groups behind so I would guess that the course was no busy.

Also.. in your scenario... the following section that I quoted simply applies. No ambiguities.

RULES
If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group

John Divney

Personally I would have insisted on allowing you through if there was gaps ahead and behind, not to generalise but a lot of older golfers have a real aversion to allowing players through on casual rounds even when they are slow beyond reason.

Some rounds I feel like shouting 'hurry the **** up'

Redzah

SnowDrifts wrote: »

The OP stated that there was no groups behind so I would guess that the course was no busy.

Also.. in your scenario... the following section that I quoted simply applies. No ambiguities.

Your completely missing my point. Maybe its the way im explaining it;

My scenario

1st hole empty
2nd hole empty
3rd tee 2 ball (last tee time of the day)
3rd fairway 4 ball
3rd green 4 ball
4th tee 4 ball
4th green 4 ball
5th tee 4 ball
5th green 4 ball
6th fairway 4 ball
6th green 4 ball

Nobody is directly responsible for slowing anybody else, it is just a very busy course. Under your citation the 2 ball should be let through (again and again and again etc) 'as it is apparent that they can play faster'. However, this would not make sense.

Your other citation is not applicable as no group has fallen behind.

matt-dublin

Redzah wrote: »

I think a couple of things need to be clarified here before judgement can be passed;

1. Was there anybody in front of them?
2. Were they in a competition?
3. Do they have greater golf course rights than you? i.e. are u a student member?

If no is they answer to all three then it is bad etiquette in my opinion.

A quick question for you, if the answer to my first question is no, then why did you not just pick up your ball and skip ahead of them i.e. walk to place where you are a full hole ahead of them and play away?

OMG you're alive!!!!!!!

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

Your completely missing my point. Maybe its the way im explaining it;

My scenario

1st hole empty
2nd hole empty
3rd tee 2 ball (last tee time of the day)
3rd fairway 4 ball
3rd green 4 ball
4th tee 4 ball
4th green 4 ball
5th tee 4 ball
5th green 4 ball
6th fairway 4 ball
6th green 4 ball

Nobody is directly responsible for slowing anybody else, it is just a very busy course. Under your citation the 2 ball should be let through (again and again and again etc) 'as it is apparent that they can play faster'. However, this would not make sense.

Your other citation is not applicable as no group has fallen behind.

I think you are missing my point and perhaps I am not explaining it well. My point is... being a single player does not preclude you from being allowed through as mandated by the rules.

Now for the single player to be considered to be allowed through.... the group in front would have had to have fallen behind the group in front of them. So in your example above.... the 2 ball stays put unless the group in front of them falls behind and fails to keep up with the group in front of them.

Redzah

SnowDrifts wrote: »

So in your example above.... the 2 ball stays put unless the group in front of them falls behind and fails to keep up with the group in front of them.

This is the last part of your citation;

'Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through'

In my example I am reading this that the 2 ball should be left through as it is apparent that the group behind can play faster. This would make no sense at all.

burnhardlanger

John Divney wrote: »

Personally I would have insisted on allowing you through if there was gaps ahead and behind, not to generalise but a lot of older golfers have a real aversion to allowing players through on casual rounds even when they are slow beyond reason.

Some rounds I feel like shouting 'hurry the **** up'

True. It's almost a affront to their perceived masculinity to allow anyone through.

Telecaster58

doenahs wrote: »

Hi all,

I was lucky to be out having a casual round in the midlands yesterday afternoon.

I was playing by myself when I caught up to 3 players on the 3rd hole.

Usually when this happens I would normally be let through but to my amasement (and to be honest annoyance) they did not let me through.

I played 9 and was constantly waiting to play. I was always at the green putting when they were teeing off at the next hole.

Don't get me wrong - there was no one behind me so I played a few extra shots here and there to practice.

They clearly saw me and at one stage went looking for a ball when I was ready on the tee box.

I know that single golfers have no right when being allowed to play through but I thought that it was clear to see that I would not have held them up if allowed through.

Just looking for some thoughts?

Cheers.

This is not an unusual occurrence where I play. If you ever want to find me on a golf course look for the group behind the group that has lost 3 holes. These people would sell their children before calling people through.

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

This is the last part of your citation;

'Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through'

In my example I am reading this that the 2 ball should be left through as it is apparent that the group behind can play faster. This would make no sense at all.

But if the course was full of 4 balls like that in your scenario above... it would not be apparent that the group behind could play faster as their pace would be dictated by the course being full of 4 balls.

It would, however, be apparent that the group behind could play faster if there were gaps up ahead on the course.

SnowDrifts

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This is not an unusual occurrence where I play. If you ever want to find me on a golf course look for the group behind the group that has lost 3 holes. These people would sell their children before calling people through.

Well why doesn't somebody report the group to the committee?

Redzah

SnowDrifts wrote: »

But if the course was full of 4 balls like that in your scenario above... it would not be apparent that the group behind could play faster as their pace would be dictated by the course being full of 4 balls.

It would, however, be apparent that the group behind could play faster if there were gaps up ahead on the course.

It would be apparent on the basis that they are a 2 ball and the others are 4 balls. To further this, you could take the example that the 2 ball is noticebly getting delayed by a noticeable wait for every shot versus all the fourballs ahead who while keeping up with the pace of play are not waiting for every shot.

SnowDrifts

Redzah wrote: »

It would be apparent on the basis that they are a 2 ball and the others are 4 balls. To further this, you could take the example that the 2 ball is noticebly getting delayed by a noticeable wait for every shot versus all the fourballs ahead who while keeping up with the pace of play are not waiting for every shot.

I think you need to contact the R&A and argue your case with their wording of the rules!

Loire

@OP,

Poor form, they should have let you through

Loire.

John Divney

Also, not clear if the OP actually asked to play through, it's one thing to not be offered with slow groups, another thing for them to refuse.

I know I'm as guilty as the next for not asking and just sucking it up

Dbu

If the group were playing in a comp, the single should have just gone around and played some other holes..skip them by, thats what i would have done anyway

doenahs

Nope-didn't ask the 3 lads if I could play through but it was fairly obvious that I would have loved to.
Normally I would have picked up my ball and moved to another hole but the course was new to me and I'd only time for 9. I'll go back again to do the others.
The lesson I learnt is to get out as early as possible else just ask a group if you can play through if there a wide enough gap.

PARlance

doenahs wrote: »

Nope-didn't ask the 3 lads if I could play through but it was fairly obvious that I would have loved to.
Normally I would have picked up my ball and moved to another hole but the course was new to me and I'd only time for 9. I'll go back again to do the others.
The lesson I learnt is to get out as early as possible else just ask a group if you can play through if there a wide enough gap.

Yip, you should have asked.
They should have also offered... But you mentioned that you were messing around the greens.
While that was out of frustration, without you asking, they may have assumed (or you gave them to opportunity to assume that) you were just out to do a bit of practice and weren't looking to push on.

I suspect the were just a**holes, but it's better to ask and let them prove they are

dan_ep82

Generally I'd always wait and ask if they want to play through ( or most cases if its 1 or 2 ) if they want to join even if we were getting stuck behind slower bunch. Sometimes you can feel pressured if there's someone waiting for you to clear the green/fairway.

What gets me is groups hopping holes. You play six holes only to arrive onto the 7th with a four ball of slow players in front.

We got one a while back that spent five minutes on the phone while standing beside the ball, then took 5 practice swings to finally shank it into a ditch where he proceeded to look for another 5 minutes. I've no problem with him hitting it in the ditch, it happens to me enough but the rest was frustrating.

Telecaster58

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Well why doesn't somebody report the group to the committee?

On one occasion I was behind a President and former Captain

stockdam

Many people still believe that a single player "has no standing on the course" and therefore should not be called through. It is annoying when this happens. I probably would have walked onto the hole in front then deliberately slowed down for a hole or two just to show them how annoying it is.

dan_ep82

stockdam wrote: »

Many people still believe that a single player "has no standing on the course" and therefore should not be called through. It is annoying when this happens. I probably would have walked onto the hole in front then deliberately slowed down for a hole or two just to show them how annoying it is.

I wouldn't put the effort in, best to just focus on enjoying what you wanted to do rather than getting hung up on it.

dan_ep82

stockdam wrote: »

Many people still believe that a single player "has no standing on the course" and therefore should not be called through. It is annoying when this happens. I probably would have walked onto the hole in front then deliberately slowed down for a hole or two just to show them how annoying it is.

I wouldn't put the effort in, best to just focus on enjoying what you wanted to do rather than getting hung up on it.

Ciaranra

Am i right in thinking a single player has no right of way .
Any time i play on my own i do my best to stay out of the way

SnowDrifts

Ciaranra wrote: »

Am i right in thinking a single player has no right of way .
Any time i play on my own i do my best to stay out of the way

Read all the posts on this thread and you will be able to find the answer.

Milkers

doenahs wrote: »

I know that single golfers have no right when being allowed to play through

Ciaranra wrote: »

Am i right in thinking a single player has no right of way.

Unfortunately this is still the widely held (incorrect) belief. I've heard this quoted to me over and over by golfers who think they know the rules/etiquette. A bit of re-education needed.

DuckSlice

Basically the group that is quickest has right of way, group as said in thread previously includes one person playing by himself.

shane 007

Milkers wrote: »

Unfortunately this is still the widely held (incorrect) belief. I've heard this quoted to me over and over by golfers who think they know the rules/etiquette. A bit of re-education needed.

TBH, I always thought this but then again rules don't seem to be my forté :-o
I wonder is it a local rule in many courses.

Saying that, I would always let any faster group behind through whether they are single or multiple. It's just good etiquette. I can never understand some attitudes on golf courses.

Ciaranra

I was often told single players have no right of way.
Match play you must let play through.
I would always be conscious of players behind me if they were catching up id speed up or call them through

PARlance

Ciaranra wrote: »

I was often told single players have no right of way.
Match play you must let play through.
I would always be conscious of players behind me if they were catching up id speed up or call them through

Singles became known as a group 2-3 years ago afaik. (Snowdrifts post from earlier).

It mustn't have been well publicised or spoken about much as not many I know knew about it.

Slicemeister

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This is not an unusual occurrence where I play. If you ever want to find me on a golf course look for the group behind the group that has lost 3 holes. These people would sell their children before calling people through.

Dad?