Penalty Points

Xenophile

After what length of time do penalty points expire?

How many penalty points be accumulated before an automatic driving ban is effected?

By the way, I think it might be a good idea to have a sub forum here on Road Safety!

Supergurrier

3 years

12 points

CiniO

Supergurrier wrote: »

3 years

12 points

Just to be precise - once you accumulate 12 you are banned.
So 11 is maximum you can have.

corktina

Is it the case that you cannot be banned without a court appearance as it is in the UK?

Mikros

corktina wrote: »

Is it the case that you cannot be banned without a court appearance as it is in the UK?

No, once you hit 12 points it is an automatic disqualification which you are notified by letter - no court appearance.

CiniO

Mikros wrote: »

No, once you hit 12 points it is an automatic disqualification which you are notified by letter - no court appearance.

What happens after?
You are banned for 6 months, and then you get back your licence and start again from 0 penalty points. Right?

corktina

Presumably if you were on 11 and got three more two would get carried over until they expired?

whomitconcerns

CiniO wrote: »

What happens after?
You are banned for 6 months, and then you get back your licence and start again from 0 penalty points. Right?

interesting point i was wondering myself...surely you dont go back to 0 though? But again whats the alternative I suppose

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

What happens after?
You are banned for 6 months, and then you get back your licence and start again from 0 penalty points. Right?

Yep, clean slate is seems.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0003.html#sec3

(2) At the end of a period of disqualification pursuant to subsection (1) the Minister—

(a) shall cause to be removed from the entry concerned penalty points standing endorsed on it on the date of the notice under section 5 relating to the disqualification, and

(b) shall cause a notice to be given or sent, by post or otherwise, to the person to whom the entry relates—

(i) of the ending of the period and its date, and

(ii) of the removal and particulars of the penalty points the subject of the removal.

bbam

Xenophile wrote: »

After what length of time do penalty points expire?

How many penalty points be accumulated before an automatic driving ban is effected?

By the way, I think it might be a good idea to have a sub forum here on Road Safety!

You shouldn't be driving if you didnt know the answer to those questions !

corktina

how does lack of that knowledge make you a poor driver?

slimjimmc

bbam wrote: »

You shouldn't be driving if you didnt know the answer to those questions !

Ha, a good driver will never need to know the answers
Not that knowing the answers makes you a bad driver either.

CiniO

bbam wrote: »

You shouldn't be driving if you didnt know the answer to those questions !

Where are you taking those wisdoms from?
C:\Temp ???

biko

Handbags away please

CiniO

And in relation to the subject?

Have anyone in here ever exceeded penalty points limit in Ireland?
Or even does anyone know someone who did?

wexie

corktina wrote: »

how does lack of that knowledge make you a poor driver?

......exactly....

the best and safest drivers don't need to know how many penalty points you can accumulate as they'll never need to worry about it....

Xenophile

bbam wrote: »

You shouldn't be driving if you didnt know the answer to those questions !

slimjimmc wrote: »

Ha, a good driver will never need to know the answers
Not that knowing the answers makes you a bad driver either.

Ignorance on any subject is no advantage to anybody. Maybe this information is useful to a nervous driver with two points.

By the way I received a very informative and prompt reply from the RSA . This is reproduced below. This is a very good site and very informative.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/
This link to our web site will give you the back-round and rules of the penalty point system.
Penalty points remain on a current driver record for 3 years-if the record lapses for any time during the 2 years, the points stop the countdown and will resume when the licence is renewed .
On accumulation of 12 penalty points a driver is banned for 6 months.

corktina

Xenophile wrote: »

Ignorance on any subject is no advantage to anybody. Maybe this information is useful to a nervous driver with two points.

By the way I received a very informative and prompt reply from the RSA . This is reproduced below. This is a very good site and very informative.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/
This link to our web site will give you the back-round and rules of the penalty point system.
Penalty points remain on a current driver record for 3 years-if the record lapses for any time during the 2 years, the points stop the countdown and will resume when the licence is renewed .
On accumulation of 12 penalty points a driver is banned for 6 months.

that doesn't sound as if you would revert to zero to me on any extra points over the twelve

slimjimmc

Xenophile wrote: »

Ignorance on any subject is no advantage to anybody. Maybe this information is useful to a nervous driver with two points.

By the way I received a very informative and prompt reply from the RSA . This is reproduced below. This is a very good site and very informative.

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/
This link to our web site will give you the back-round and rules of the penalty point system.
Penalty points remain on a current driver record for 3 years-if the record lapses for any time during the 2 years, the points stop the countdown and will resume when the licence is renewed .
On accumulation of 12 penalty points a driver is banned for 6 months.

What is this "2 years" they refer to?


Another thing, the clock stops if you are disqualified by a Court; the penalty points or penalty point ban are suspended while the Court ban is active and resume when the Court ban is completed.
Same applies if you no longer have a licence, e.g when it expires.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2002/en/act/pub/0012/sec0006.html#sec6

Mikros

CiniO wrote: »

And in relation to the subject?

Have anyone in here ever exceeded penalty points limit in Ireland?
Or even does anyone know someone who did?

Around 2500 people have... so not that many when compared to the number of drivers.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/penalty-points-put-2500-off-road-30031819.html

No Pants

Mikros wrote: »

No, once you hit 12 points it is an automatic disqualification which you are notified by letter - no court appearance.

Is this considered a conviction for insurance purposes, even though you haven't seen the inside of a courtroom?

Mikros

No Pants wrote: »

Is this considered a conviction for insurance purposes, even though you haven't seen the inside of a courtroom?

Yes. Typically the line is usually something like:

"ever been disqualified from driving, convicted of any driving or criminal offence, or have any prosecution pending for any driving or criminal offence"

You accept the penalty points when you pay the fine. You are entitled to go to court at the time if you want to dispute them.

JonKelleher

6 I think, but it could be 9.

_Kaiser_

JonKelleher wrote: »

6 I think, but it could be 9.

Still 12 but wasn't there some proposal to make it 6 for L/new drivers? Did that go through?

JonKelleher

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Still 12 but wasn't there some proposal to make it 6 for L/new drivers? Did that go through?

Is it still 12? I didn't realise. I thought it had been reduced. Apologies.

Mikros

JonKelleher wrote: »

Is it still 12? I didn't realise. I thought it had been reduced. Apologies.

The legislation (Road Traffic Act 2014) has been passed, but it hasn't come into force yet. Not sure if a date has been set yet... question of when though, not if.

CiniO

No Pants wrote: »

Is this considered a conviction for insurance purposes, even though you haven't seen the inside of a courtroom?

I don't think so. It's not a conviction.
However as Mikros pointed out, usually insurers ask for convictions and disqualifications in the same question.
Whether you were convicted for an offence in court, or disqualified for penalty points, answer is still yes.

But when insurer ask you only about your convictions, then my understanding is that answer is no.

Mikros

CiniO wrote: »

I don't think so. It's not a conviction.
However as Mikros pointed out, usually insurers ask for convictions and disqualifications in the same question.
Whether you were convicted for an offence in court, or disqualified for penalty points, answer is still yes.

But when insurer ask you only about your convictions, then my understanding is that answer is no.

Yeah, strictly speaking it is not a conviction as only a court can convict you. It is an administrative disqualification. But insurance companies normally will ask the right questions.

CiniO

Mikros wrote: »

Around 2500 people have... so not that many when compared to the number of drivers.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/penalty-points-put-2500-off-road-30031819.html

That's very little.
Approx 250 per year.
Assuming there is about 2.5 million drivers here, it's 1 person per 10,000 to be banned because of penalty point.


To compare I just looked up some statistics from Poland which say there is average 13,000 drivers banned every year because of penalty points.
That's out of 20 milliion.
So on average 1 person out of 1,500 is banned every year.
Nearly 7 times more than in Ireland.
And that only includes people who were actually banned, and not everyone who exceeds penalty points limit gets banned. I'm guessing only about 60% - 70%.
So at least 10 times more people exceed penalty points there than in Ireland.

Xenophile

CiniO wrote: »

Assuming there is about 2.5 million drivers here, it's 1 person per 10,000 to be banned because of penalty point.

Never 2.5 million drivers here, in a country of 4.5 million people. Exclude children, non drivers and people over 70 who do not qualify for automatic renewal of their drivers licence and I would say you could reduce the above figure by 50%.

Mikros

Xenophile wrote: »

Never 2.5 million drivers here, in a country of 4.5 million people. Exclude children, non drivers and people over 70 who do not qualify for automatic renewal of their drivers licence and I would say you could reduce the above figure by 50%.

Ireland has a pretty high car ownership rate compared to some countries.

There are around 2.5 million vehicles registered and 2.6 million licenced drivers. Dosn't mean all those people or vehicles are driving around, but it's the best indicator available.

Source

CiniO

Xenophile wrote: »

Never 2.5 million drivers here, in a country of 4.5 million people. Exclude children, non drivers and people over 70 who do not qualify for automatic renewal of their drivers licence and I would say you could reduce the above figure by 50%.

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/13914-IRISH_BULLETIN_OF_VEHICLE__DRIVER_STATISTICS_2012-0.PDF

According to this in 2012 there was 2,413,936 holders of driving licence, and 257,334 holders of driving permit. Total of 2,671,270. So I suppose my estimate was quite accurate.