Challenging RDF courses.

TomRooney

Hi all, I noticed the RDF are recruiting.
My question relates to the courses available to an RDF member.
I'm guessing courses like the sniper course will not be ran for members of the RDF but are there any other challenging courses RDF members can do that would be on a par with PDF courses.
As an ex Arty Gnr in the PDF I would be curious to know if courses such as a Artillery Command Systems Operator course or unmanned aerial operator course is possible.

I would be interested to learn of any other non Artillery related challenging courses ran in the Infantry units of the RDF.
Would the RDF Cavalry train on all the same vehicles as their PDF counterparts?

tac foley

TomRooney wrote: »

As an ex Arty Gnr in the PDF I would be curious to know if courses such as a Artillery Command Systems Operator course or unmanned aerial operator course is possible.

I would be interested to learn of any other non Artillery related challenging courses ran in the Infantry units of the RDF.
Would the RDF Cavalry train on all the same vehicles as their PDF counterparts?

Both of those areas of artillery are worthwhile avenues to pursue - the kit is the same, and if you'll forgive the pun, the aims are the same, too.

As for training, well, there is little point on training for anything using different equipment to the PDF.

Good luck to you, Sir.

tac

TomRooney

Cheers Tac,

But my concern is based on information I've gotten from the guys I used to serve with in the PDF.
Apparently the RDF will never do the more advanced course such as sniper or Infantry Recce due to the lack of funding and will to train the RDF to PDF standards.

I was looking for suggestions for challenging military courses that are available to the RDF.

Doctor14

TomRooney wrote: »

Hi all, I noticed the RDF are recruiting.
My question relates to the courses available to an RDF member.
I'm guessing courses like the sniper course will not be ran for members of the RDF but are there any other challenging courses RDF members can do that would be on a par with PDF courses.

Officially, every course in the Army is now available to RDF. The problem is that RDF are usually limited to 28 days of training at a maximum. And then there is the problem of actually getting on the course and justifying your place.

ie, the sniper course could be done by RDF but it is well in excess of the 28 days and you (well, your unit commander)would have to justify why you should get the course and not someone else. And then the place would have to be approved AND the extra mandays sanctioned.

BUT, and the big but is, it has been done. I have seen it done several times in 2013 and 2014. Whereas it was always the exception that got the course in the past (maybe 1 RDF guy on a PDF course every few years), it is now becoming a lot more common. And any PDF course that is less than 28 days can and is being run for the RDF.

As for RDF specific Courses that are challenging, Career courses can be but are limited to 2 weeks usually although there is usually a lot of distance learning so they can be very challenging academically.... if that is what you means but I suspect not. RDF course usually throw a lot more at the students in a short space of time but it can only go on for 2 weeks. The long days are a killer with RDF courses going on till 9pm but, again, limited to 2 weeks. I found the pace much easier when I switched over to the PDF pace of 9 to 5. While you could be burnt out after 2 weeks of non stop, no break, RDF Cses, PDF Cses are at a slower pace but last far longer - the difference between a 200m sprint versus a 10km run.

TomRooney

Well that is encouraging, I wonder could the training days be justified if the RDF participant done it off their own back forfeiting any pay entitlement.

I'm guessing promotion is fairly slow in the RDF, if the PDF is in any way similar.

Local-womanizer

I haven't heard of RDF getting course alongside Pdf pers with the exception of a parachute course years ago or the odd weapons course here or there. I stand to be corrected of course.

I can't see any RDF personnel ever getting either a snipers course or a recce course. They are up there with the Hardest course that is on offer, both for the physicality and information overload. I can't see the average RDF member being fit enough for a recce course, unless they are out doing a terrain walk once or twice a week with 40-50 kg over mountains. As far as the snipers course, 2 years of service is required for a PDF troop to even be considered for the course.

And for a company commander to learn that one of his PDF soldiers is missing out of a career course needed to attain his extension of service to a member in the RDF, that wouldn't go down too well to be fair.

Doctor14

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I haven't heard of RDF getting course alongside Pdf pers with the exception of a parachute course years ago or the odd weapons course here or there. I stand to be corrected of course.

I can't see any RDF personnel ever getting either a snipers course or a recce course.

As I said, happened in 2013. There is 1 RDF doing the 17 week PTI Cse at the moment and other Courses were done last year. RDF Have done the Recce Cse in the past as well but not in a while and it was only 1 RDF guy.

Local-womanizer wrote: »

And for a company commander to learn that one of his PDF soldiers is missing out of a career course needed to attain his extension of service to a member in the RDF, that wouldn't go down too well to be fair.

Doesn't usually extend to career Courses as RDF have their own courses. And as I said, the place has to be justified and approved.

TomRooney

Local-womanizer wrote: »

I haven't heard of RDF getting course alongside Pdf pers with the exception of a parachute course years ago or the odd weapons course here or there. I stand to be corrected of course.

I can't see any RDF personnel ever getting either a snipers course or a recce course. They are up there with the Hardest course that is on offer, both for the physicality and information overload. I can't see the average RDF member being fit enough for a recce course, unless they are out doing a terrain walk once or twice a week with 40-50 kg over mountains. As far as the snipers course, 2 years of service is required for a PDF troop to even be considered for the course.

And for a company commander to learn that one of his PDF soldiers is missing out of a career course needed to attain his extension of service to a member in the RDF, that wouldn't go down too well to be fair.

Well being an ex PDF member I'm well aware of the fitness requirements and fitness has never been an issue for me. I'd probably be fitter now than most PDF guys I know.

That's a fair point RE: PDF members and needing career courses. That said, how are the RDF ever to become militarily proficient if they are not pushed to increase their skills to a similar level as the PDF.

Local-womanizer

Doctor14 wrote: »

As I said, happened in 2013. There is 1 RDF doing the 17 week PTI Cse at the moment and other Courses were done last year. RDF Have done the Recce Cse in the past as well but not in a while and it was only 1 RDF guy.

Doesn't usually extend to career Courses as RDF have their own courses. And as I said, the place has to be justified and approved.

I heard about the RDF doing the PTI/PTL course. I'll have to take your word regards the recce course.

Nearly all courses a PDF member can do is classified as a career course, or one for your extension of service. I cant see an RDF position on a course being justified over a PDF member, who's career can be negativity impacted by missing out on a course. TO get extended from 5 years to 9 years in the PDF you have to have had to served overseas once and completed 2 courses.

TomRooney wrote: »

Well being an ex PDF member I'm well aware of the fitness requirements and fitness has never been an issue for me. I'd probably be fitter now than most PDF guys I know.

That said, how are the RDF ever to become militarily proficient if they are not pushed to increase their skills to a similar level as the PDF.

I know that your ex PDF experience would make you aware of the physical requirements. What about RDF members who are not aware of the physical requirement?

Tbh, I cant see the majority of RDF members giving up 7 weeks of their time to go on a Recce course. You might get the odd person willing to give up their time but enough for it to benefit the organisation as a whole, I don't think its a goer.

sharpy2010

As much as the RDF is limited to 28 days it easily extended to 42 days but after that is when it get really tricky as when (not if) they go over 42 days they are entitled to pension and to make contributions. This is what has always limited thr RDf to time resticted courses.
I have heard of RDF on a Recce course years ago but ( and I may not be right here) that person was ex PDF and had a wealth of knowledge and rubbed shoulders very well)
As far as challenging courses then it depends what you find challenging? If your physically fir then will you find a Recce course challenging over say a 26 weeks Comm-ops course in CIs if your not technically minded?
I only say this as in the PDF the course is 26 weeks yet the RDF are going to get trained up to approx.90% of the course (enough to allow them to man a barrack Com cen but not enough to warrant Tech pay-no matter what Civi qualifications they hold) The RDF course is taking them approx. 2 years to achieve.

The change at the momemnt seems to be putting an emphasis on training RDF in skills the army needs and can be utilised rather than having a mass of bullet sponges (which was the case for years) and I dont mean any of that in a bad way, I know it sounds bad but its not meant with any malice

trellheim

Meh. Nominations for courses are the CO's prerequisite. He's a PDF man and well able to judge if an RDF man should get the nod over an PDF man.

Can RDF do Single Force courses ... sure. Plent of PDF courses not fully taken up.

As for the tech pay if you've done the course and hold the job you get the tech pay. Why wouldn't they get the tech pay, ev ? Its fk all over the RDF pay and even if you are on G5 its not much. Ha.

ace86

With the new Orginisation as for doing challenging courses its very limited to what is available in my eyes. I'm in the RDF Infantry myself with at least 13 years and now and an infantry man is ment to be deemed A qualified Soldier is to fire the Styer and know ur basic Tactics.We been told that we don't need to be instructed to use Mortars or 50 Cal HMG, I have never done a course on either or an anti-tank weapon for that matter and these are weapons any infantry man should be able to use in my eyes. I did an Introductory Sniper Course alright it was very Interesting but hard to learn alot in 1 week from a course that takes 3-6 months in the army i believe.The RDF will always find it hard to do alot of intense course alongside the PDF due to they being Reservist and the time to get off work from their employer as there is no protection or security of their jobs and could end up losing them especially in the economic climate we are in at the moment.

Morpheus

Did PTL last year, it was by far the best course ive done.

one RDFer is doing the full PTI course

They are also looking to see if its possible to make the PTI course available to RDF members on a distance learning and part time basis. Wonder would they consider night courses / classes ... a significant part of the course is theory too.

discus

Morpheus wrote: »

Did PTL last year, it was by far the best course ive done.

one RDFer is doing the full PTI course

They are also looking to see if its possible to make the PTI course available to RDF members on a distance learning and part time basis. Wonder would they consider night courses / classes ... a significant part of the course is theory too.

Surely a massive facet of the course is phys though? A pti is meant to be untouchable, the fittest lad in the unit. How can that be measured and assured if its done part time?

John_D80

TomRooney wrote: »

As an ex Arty Gnr in the PDF I would be curious to know if courses such as a Artillery Command Systems Operator course or unmanned aerial operator course is possible.

There is no such course in the Irish Defence Forces bud but I'm assuming you mean the FCCS operators course? The FCCS should featre on some RDF courses in the near future but as a standalone operators course, there are no plans for one. I'm also assuming by the second one you mean the UAV operator course? Unfortunately not open to RDF at the moment.

Doctor14

Morpheus wrote: »

They are also looking to see if its possible to make the PTI course available to RDF members on a distance learning and part time basis. Wonder would they consider night courses / classes ... a significant part of the course is theory too.

There is no plan to do any DL for the PTI Cse for RDF.

RDF with existing Civvie Qualifications may be able to bypass the theoretical part of the Course (which is limited) but they are still looking at at least a 3 month Course....and they must already be a PTS. Civvie Quals will get you a long way on the differing Cses but there is no plan for any DL or Part Time for those without the Quals.

trellheim

With the new Orginisation as for doing challenging courses its very limited to what is available in my eyes. I'm in the RDF Infantry myself with at least 13 years and now and an infantry man is ment to be deemed A qualified Soldier is to fire the Styer and know ur basic Tactics

Im RDF Infantry too with 28 years and it has never been better. It does seem to depend what unit you are in though. BUT If you can't take the time to get to the right standard how is that the DF's fault? Yes there is no job protection but there was none either in the good times again that is not the DF's fault they cannot legislate, ask your TD.

Morpheus

Doctor14 wrote: »

There is no plan to do any DL for the PTI Cse for RDF.

RDF with existing Civvie Qualifications may be able to bypass the theoretical part of the Course (which is limited) but they are still looking at at least a 3 month Course....and they must already be a PTS. Civvie Quals will get you a long way on the differing Cses but there is no plan for any DL or Part Time for those without the Quals.

Sorry, i meant that last year, when I was there, they were investigating whether it would be feasible or not. thats all! Didnt mean that they are going to do some of the course via DL. knowing the sheer amount of material learning and training required for PTS and PTI, what you have said makes perfect sense.

ace86

trellheim wrote: »

Im RDF Infantry too with 28 years and it has never been better. It does seem to depend what unit you are in though. BUT If you can't take the time to get to the right standard how is that the DF's fault? Yes there is no job protection but there was none either in the good times again that is not the DF's fault they cannot legislate, ask your TD.

I know u have double the time i have in it and have seen alot of different changes and done different things down the years but i'm not blaming the DF but you can't expect some one in the RDF to do a 2 wk course and be at a certain standard compared to the DF who possible get 2 months to do the same course.I'm not blaming the DF for people in the RDF not having job protection when they go to camp or course and yes its something that should be legislated for by our Government like that they have in other countries,but sometimes they feel that we are both the same and if we get detailed we should be there no questions and no problems.