Varnish Walnut stairs

Topper74

Hi,
Need advice, I have a new stairs with walnut threads and bannister and either red deal or popular for the rest.

I want to Varnish the lot, but unsure of the process.
I will clean then lightly sand (what grade sandpaper?)

Then what type of Varnish should I get?. I don't want too deep a colour on the walnut, but I do want its effect to come through (if you follow)

What are steps then, lightly sand between a number of costs or?

Thanks in advance.

DublinDIYguy

Topper74 wrote: »

Hi,
Need advice, I have a new stairs with walnut threads and bannister and either red deal or popular for the rest.

I want to Varnish the lot, but unsure of the process.
I will clean then lightly sand (what grade sandpaper?)

Then what type of Varnish should I get?. I don't want too deep a colour on the walnut, but I do want its effect to come through (if you follow)

What are steps then, lightly sand between a number of costs or?

Thanks in advance.

Clear varnish, (avoid quick drying)
Matt = no sheen
Satin = mid sheen
Gloss = high sheen.

You shouldn't need to sand before the first coat, that can scratch the wood. Thin your varnish with some white spirits for the first coat about 1 ws to 5 or 10 varnish. Then use a high grade sandpaper, if you ask in the paint shop they should be able to show you their best one for your job.. Don't go crazy sanding, if it feels smooth then it's fine.
Next coat use your varnish with less ws, just a drop if required to make the varnish easier to use..
See what it's like after that.. If it feels smooth and looks good allover I'd just give the hand rail another coat and leave the rest..
Best of luck

cardwizzard

Hi op, have you got a pic that you could post up?

This is a general guide on how we do staircases and spindles. Of course it can and we do adjust it depending on the situation. Firstly we lightly sand all areas, normally with 180g sandpaper. At this stage it's a good idea to remove any pencil marks( those pesky carpenters:), any dirt or grime that may be on the wood, or anything foreign. Dust it down.

Next we use a product called sanding sealer. Plenty of ventilation needed, this is potent, very very strong smell. It's called smellies by painters on sites, and for good reason. However it is really good as it sinks into the grain of the wood and raises the grain. This is an indication that the grain has been filled and is now ready for varnish. It kind of mirrors what a primer does for paint. After sanding sealer, it usually dries within 30mins, lightly sand either with 240g or we sometimes use a sanding pad at this time. Nice to use a pad if the spindles has detail as the pad is flexible and can get into nooks and crannies better. That's the back broke at this stage. If there is any nail holes to be filled now is the time.

Then coats of varnish, light sand and dust between coats, as a general rule of thumb with varnish the more coats the better the finish. So when your happy with it that's enough coats

If you can use gloss as the base coats even if your using a different sheen as finish. It dries a lot harder and will protect the timber that little bit better, a lot of floor finishers do this also.

Never shake the varnish, always stir prior and during application. Shaking can produce little bubbles on the finish, not ideal. Use a soft tip brush.

Good luck!

DublinDIYguy

To remove any pencil marks simply dab a bit of varnish on it and it'll sand away very easily..
I'd avoid sanding before priming as you'll scratch your nice new wood. Just clean it with a cloth and white spirits.. If theres any dirt or grime left after cleaning simply sand that off. Sanding clean raw wood damages rather than helps..
The smelly stuff used to be very popular and is still used by many but it raises the grain way more than necessary in my opinion. If you do decide to use it you can remove a lot of the raised grain by carefully sliding a blade along the surface. Most french polishers avoid using sandpaper as much as possible to avoid scratching the wood, especially when the wood is still raw.
The more coats of varnish you apply the more likely you are to get runs so as soon as you're happy with the finish leave it. A primer and one or two coats of a good varnish should suffice for the whole staircase apart from the handrail. That will get a lot of wear and tear so an extra coat or 2 will make it easier to maintain..

cardwizzard

DublinDIYguy wrote: »

To remove any pencil marks simply dab a bit of varnish on it and it'll sand away very easily..
I'd avoid sanding before priming as you'll scratch your nice new wood. Just clean it with a cloth and white spirits.. If theres any dirt or grime left after cleaning simply sand that off. Sanding clean raw wood damages rather than helps..
The smelly stuff used to be very popular and is still used by many but it raises the grain way more than necessary in my opinion. If you do decide to use it you can remove a lot of the raised grain by carefully sliding a blade along the surface. Most french polishers avoid using sandpaper as much as possible to avoid scratching the wood, especially when the wood is still raw.
The more coats of varnish you apply the more likely you are to get runs so as soon as you're happy with the finish leave it. A primer and one or two coats of a good varnish should suffice for the whole staircase apart from the handrail. That will get a lot of wear and tear so an extra coat or 2 will make it easier to maintain..

Never be afraid to sand prior to the first application.150g is perfect at this stage as I mentioned. If you take pencil marks etc off after its varnished your removing the coating. This goes against the purpose.

As for raising the grain too much is there such a thing??? The purpose is to raise as much as you can so the remaining coats won't penetrate the substrate. Hence a better application and finish.

Regarding varnish runs if more coats that's nonsense. If its sanded correctly between coats that cures that problem.

Don't rush things as others might op. A job worth doing is worth doing right.

DublinDIYguy

cardwizzard wrote: »

Never be afraid to sand prior to the first application.150g is perfect at this stage as I mentioned. If you take pencil marks etc off after its varnished your removing the coating. This goes against the purpose.

As for raising the grain too much is there such a thing??? The purpose is to raise as much as you can so the remaining coats won't penetrate the substrate. Hence a better application and finish.

Regarding varnish runs if more coats that's nonsense. If its sanded correctly between coats that cures that problem.

Don't rush things as others might op. A job worth doing is worth doing right.

A painter got thrown off a job I was on before for sanding a raw staircase.. The owner of the house went crazy. He didn't want him back in his house, said he couldn't believe a painter would be stupid enough to sand his new staircase before it had been primed. He wouldn't let it go either, even when the job was finished he was still showing the boss the visible scratches on his handrail. Went way overboard but he had paid a lot of money for his 3 storey staircase. It was actually off him I learned the trick of using a blade to remove the raised grain. He was one of the top building contractors in Dublin during the boom, smart man too, still worth a fortune unlike most of them.
To remove pencil marks you don't sand them after the full coat of varnish, that makes no sense, You dab a tiny bit of varnish on the pencil mark and rub it with a bit of sandpaper, the varnish works up the pencil mark and it wipes away in seconds. I'm very surprised you're unaware of that one, learnt that when I was a 1st year.
Sanding away runs between coats isn't ideal, it's better to avoid them all together. And you're definitely more likely to get runs varnishing over varnished wood than onto primed wood so the last coat is where you're most likely to get them and the more coats you use the more runs you are likely to get especially for a novice.
Regarding the grain, smelly raises it way more than a pissy coat of varnish, after the next coat of varnish the wood will be sealed and the grain will no longer raise. So imo yes you can over raise grain and cause yourself lots of extra sanding (which scratches the wood haha).
Each to their own though. Most varnishes will instruct that bare wood should be primed with 1 part ws 10 parts gloss varnish aswell as sanding prior to priming. 1 part I agree with the other you agree with.
But for somebody who's not a painter I think he'll get best results keeping his job as easy as possible.
1 pissy coat of gloss varnish, the required sanding to make the surface smooth, 1 coat of chosen finish varnish, and if you're happy with how it is at this stage then just give the handrail another light sand and finish coat.. All done,

cardwizzard

What your talking about is damaging the wood, sanding too aggressively prior to coating. If you use the grit I advice and do it correctly you won't have a problem.

As for your friend sounds like he attacked it. People use a lot of different liquids to loose up stains/marks and we have on occasion used something. But only after we tried to sand it out.

If a painter can't take pencil marks etc off with scratch in my book that's pretty bad.

But we all do things differently.

DublinDIYguy

Painters who sand pencil marks out without using a bit of varnish scratch the wood and take longer. As I said, a tiny dab of varnish and the pencil mark will come off with a 5-10 seconds rub of scratch..
You want to spend 2 minutes literally scratching the wood to remove each pencil mark by all means....
I'll do it the quicker, easier and better for the wood way.
Next time you need to remove a pencil mark try it this way, if you come back here trying to say it's better to scratch it dry I would no longer take your opinion seriously. We all have our own ways of doing things and I've leant many tricks and good methods from different painters over the yrs. but any painter who claims it's better to remove pencil marks dry than wet wit a bit of varnish may aswell be calling a blackboard white..

cardwizzard

If its taking you two minutes to remove a pencil mark DIY guy, it's no wonder your not in this game anymore.

I bow out, because this is going around in circles. This time because of pencil marks, you argued last time with how many coats one painter was putting on, and numerous other threads you know better lol.

Waiting for some cheap shot, take care but I'm out.

yop

Mod Note: You 2 are on here long enough to know better.

mad m

Pencil marks, I always had a damp bit of rag with white spirits. Would wipe off fairly handy. But I suppose the varnish with a bit of sandpaper would do same trick as it will have some solvent in it to break down the lead of pencil.