Water meter

kay 9

Just a quick question folks. Do I have to accept the instalation of a water meter if I'm going to do a well. I'm already on the public scheme or group scheme, not sure who runs it now. Thanks.

razor8

There is no requirement for a water meter for a private well. I would highly recommend you would fit one for your own benefit, very useful for monitoring usage and highlighting any leaks. Can buy one for less than €50

bbam

kay 9 wrote: »

Just a quick question folks. Do I have to accept the instalation of a water meter if I'm going to do a well. I'm already on the public scheme or group scheme, not sure who runs it now. Thanks.

If you have no well NOW and your using either a public or private scheme then you must accept a meter...
What would there be to stop everyone saying they are going to bore a well next week so no need for a meter..

razor8

bbam wrote: »

If you have no well NOW and your using either a public or private scheme then you must accept a meter...
What would there be to stop everyone saying they are going to bore a well next week so no need for a meter..

Technically you would have to pay a disconnection fee. IMO it would be still cheaper to pay for water than drill a well and probably have to put some kind of treatment unit in costing money in maintainance and salt etc, if prices rocket it may swing the other way

J.O. Farmer

Once you have a connection to the mains it will have to be metered. If you're going having a well you can probably tell them to disconnect you instead. It's not something I would do though. You might be without water until the well is bored.
Even with the well it might be no harm to have mains backup in case the well ran dry.

kay 9

Thanks for all the helpful replies people. Really appreciate it. Going to do a well as I have plenty of them in the land. Have my own machine and plumber by trade so the labour side of it ain't a problem. Just wanted to know the ins and outs of the legality of refusing it. But, as you have said, might keep the metered pipe as a backup. Thanks again...

kay 9

razor8 wrote: »

There is no requirement for a water meter for a private well. I would highly recommend you would fit one for your own benefit, very useful for monitoring usage and highlighting any leaks. Can buy one for less than €50

I guess ya meant 500 razor.

razor8

kay 9 wrote: »

I guess ya meant 500 razor.

A half inch meter is around €40 euro Elster or actaris type

dodod

Just put in four of them great job on different lines great job very easy to see if you have a leak

Sam Kade

razor8 wrote: »

A half inch meter is around €40 euro Elster or actaris type

Most wells have 3/4 or inch piping.

nhg

We have our own well with mains supply as backup, during the storm when our electricity was gone for 3 days we only had to turn a tap & we were back on the mains supply.

CiaraLiu

Hope these articles help you understand that installing water meters at or near your property without your consent is against the law and your silence is your consent, as seen below with the copied and pasted definition of word Tacit. They have no contract without your consent so you doing nothing to prevent them from illegally installing a water meter, pump etc is you giving them your consent unknowingly but now you know....

Because I am a new user I cannot post any links so I will have to copy and paste them.

This one is about a man from Mullingar who mailed back his water meter:

One Lakepoint resident has taken out his water meter and posted it back to Irish Water. Angry householder Dermot Murphy told the Westmeath Examiner last Friday afternoon that he had decided to take out the meter that was installed on June 19, as it had been installed despite him informing Irish Water, by letter and on the phone, that they did not have his consent to do so. He says that he also informed the foreman of the crew contracted to install the meter. “Irish Water can put in the water meter at your home and if you say nothing, that is called a tacit agreement, but in the letters that I sent I told them that I was not giving my consent... They have no contract with me because I have not given my consent.” Mr Murphy, who says that he knows of at least 50 other householders in Mullingar who are going to follow his example, says that he is prepared to go to court to argue his case, and believes that he has a sound legal argument. “They might make an example of me and bring me to court and I’ll go. I’ll tell the judge that I never gave any consent. I have the letters here and I have the telephone conversation. The foreman (of the installers) also said that he’d bypass my house. The judge has to rule in my favour. “They would have to show me the legislation that they can put in a meter outside my home without my consent. There isn’t any. I’ve checked it out. Under consumer and contract law to put anything in at your home, or to sell you anything, they have to supply documentation. They haven’t given me anything.” Mr Murphy added that he is opposed to the introduction of water charges as the funds raised “will be used to pay the bond holders”. “I want to know how is my water going to be improved by putting this meter in. Is it going to remain at the same pressure? Is it going to remain the same stuff that I couldn’t drink for the last 12 years and if so, why do I have to pay for it? “If they are going to put this in, I want value for my money... I’ve sent that [the water meter] back in one piece because I haven’t given my consent for it.” Mr Murphy sent the water meter back to Irish Water’s Cork headquarters by registered mail on Friday afternoon after he spoke to the paper. He added that he will be invoicing the semi-state body for the cost of the postage. “I’ve done everything legally on my side. If they want to take me court, they can, because I have backing behind me. A lot of people are taking them out in Dublin.” Mr Murphy, who stressed that he has nothing against the staff that are installing the water meters, says that one of the reasons he decided to speak to the Westmeath Examiner was to raise awareness that there are locally-based people who are opposing the introduction of water charges. “They are tearing like mad to get these in, usually when people are at work so that no one will confront them. The whole reason they are putting these in is to pay bond holders. This has nothing do with services.”

Tacit
Implied, inferred, understood without being expressly stated.

Tacit refers to something done or made in silence, as in a tacit agreement. A tacit understanding is manifested by the fact that no contradiction or objection is made and is thus inferred from the situation and the circumstances.



This story is about the abandoned water meter installations in Dundalk and the LEGAL LETTER that was sent by the residents outlining the ILLEGAL installation of water meters:

Work was abandoned on installing water meters in a Dundalk estate today following a small protest.

Eibhlin Ní Riain from Blackrock joined people from Greenacres, including an expectant mother, to protest against the installation of the meters.

Part of the ‘Water Metering Ireland – Let’s Fight Back’ group, she handed out non-consent forms to local residents urging them to reject the installation of meters outside their homes.

Irish Water have already installed a large number of meters in Greenacres and are expected to return to finish the work in the next few days. She has encouraged people from the area and, indeed, around the town to display the non-consent forms outside their homes.

The forms can be viewed below…



NOTICE OF NON-CONSENT AND NON-ACQUIESCENCE
TO TRESPASS, SURVEILLANCE, OR CONTRACT.
NOTICE OF LIABILITY. NON-NEGOTIABLE.
NO CONSENT. NO CONTRACT
For the attention of:
Name:
Phil Hogan - Minister for the Environment,
Michael Mc Nicholas - Chief Executive Bord Gáis
John Barry - Irish Water Programme Director
John Tierney - Managing Director Irish Water
J. Murphy & Sons Ltd.,
GMC Utilities Group,
Coffey Northumbrian Ltd.,
and all other parties of interest.
Address:
Dear Minister Phil Hogan, Irish Water, Bord Gáis and all other agents, county councillors, officers, employees,
contractors and interested parties in the matter of Irish Water and the Smart-Meter Program,
To those who intend to install a ‘Smart-Meter’ or any activity monitoring device at the above address, this is a Legal
Notice that all parties are hereby denied consent for installation and use of all such devices on (or near) the above
property. Installation and use of any activity monitoring device is hereby refused and prohibited. No legislative act
supercedes the natural, self-evident right of any individual man or woman to refuse to buy the services or goods of
any other entity (private or public) or to protect his or her health from the effects of such goods. I neither want your
goods (the Smart-Meter) nor require your services (water-metering). A contract demands consent. Further to
that, ‘informed’ consent is legally required for the installation of a device that has proven detrimental effects on the
health of users, or any surveillance device that will collect and transmit private and personal data to undisclosed and
unauthorised parties for undisclosed and unauthorised purposes. No such consent is given nor may be inferred.
Authorisation for sharing of personal and private information may only be given by the originator and subject of that
information. Such authorisation is hereby denied and refused with regard to the above property and all of its
occupants.
Threats of lowered water-pressure or other consequences of refusal to engage with Irish Water will be taken as coercive
intimidation and treated as harrassment. Acts of interfering with the water-pressure or water-quality to ‘encourage’
compliance by Irish Water or any of its agents will be treated as sabotage and coaction and will be pursued through
the courts. Installation of the Meter in direct disregard of this notice (without rebutting the scientific studies and
matters of law provided) will be taken as Irish Water’s agreement that the Smart-Meter is to be treated as an item of
abandoned equipment and may be removed (disabled/disposed of) at my own discretion. Installation of the Meter in
direct disregard of this notice will also be taken as agreement that Irish Water and all other contracting parties will
each be liable for damages amounting to not less than €5,000 per infringement, for direct disregard of the rights of the
occupants and the potential health-risks that Smart-Meters create, despite disclosure and awareness of both.
Information on the security and health risks of ‘Smart Meters’, and the various breeches of Irish Law, the Constitution
(Bunreacht Na hÉireann) and the European Convention on Human Rights are detailed on the following pages.
Notice to Principal is Notice to Agent. Notice to Agent is Notice to Principal. With FULL Prejudice.
Name:
Date:

Markcheese

^^^ right so^^^ ,can you legally stop someone working on their pipeline or network if it's not on your property ... Fair enough inside your own gate ..

rangler1

Markcheese wrote: »

^^^ right so^^^ ,can you legally stop someone working on their pipeline or network if it's not on your property ... Fair enough inside your own gate ..

It sounds like a rerun of the property tax....every one WILL pay....eventually (depends how much you need a water supply)

just do it

razor8 wrote: »

A half inch meter is around €40 euro Elster or actaris type

I looked for these a few years ago but couldn't source them. Where can you get them?

Muckit

Ciaraliu

Thank you for posting. Now as l believe it is the 'house holder' that is liable for the water charges when they come in.

Can a tenant of a rented house or land property serviced by a water scheme legally use this signage/express their opposition to water meter installation seeing as they do not own the property?

Farrell

Muckit wrote: »

Ciaraliu

Thank you for posting. Now as l believe it is the 'house holder' that is liable for the water charges when they come in.

Can a tenant of a rented house or land property serviced by a water scheme legally use this signage/express their opposition to water meter installation seeing as they do not own the property?

Sadly allot of Recent tenant agreements, state House owner pays the property tax, but the tenant is liable for any water charges

trabpc

Refuse meter away but you will still get an estimated bill.
I hear those that refuse will be charged for meter install When the get tired of over Estimated Bill and then request a meter.

Don't understand no contract lark... Fine no contract. So Water board should switch off..

Markcheese

trabpc wrote: »

Refuse meter away but you will still get an estimated bill.
I hear those that refuse will be charged for meter install When the get tired of over Estimated Bill and then request a meter.q

Don't understand no contract lark... Fine no contract. So Water board should switch off..

Ahhhhh but do they not have to have installed the new meter/stop cock to be able to switch off the meter

sandydan

heard rep of irish water on radio , my understanding of it ,you get bill for 2 adults as standard if 2 adults live in house or if you dont fill in form and that allows you to use a fixed amount.
now this is where im a bit hazy, you get standard bill for first 2 quarters of say €70, then after that if metered and use less than allowance you are charged for usage only. so in theory if you use nothing each quarter in that you only have mains water as backup does that mean you pay nothing.
now in my case i have meter. i was in group water scheme that we paid approx £900 per household to set up and we were always metered , now i get bill for basic of €45 per six months as i use no water or only in power cuts max 3000 gallons annually.if a household of 2 adults and 2 children fill in form correctly are they charged say€280 annually and if they use no water ie have own well do they still pay €280 annually regardless.this is paid to Bord Uisce.
farmers will get separate bill i understand for amount litres of water covered in exemption from local council as they have no exemption or so i hear.

razor8

Markcheese wrote: »

Ahhhhh but do they not have to have installed the new meter/stop cock to be able to switch off the meter

They don't, existing box or stopcock will do that

J.O. Farmer

I don't know what people hope to achieve by stopping water meters being installed. Surely unless they are using above average amounts of water a meter is a good thing. They only pay for what they use.
I know people object because the charges are effectively a new tax but providing piped water to houses has cost associated and that is what the charges in theory pays for.
I would think that if you don't pay your water could be cut off as I don't think anybody has a constitutional right to piped water. You can still get it in a bucket from whatever water body is the source. As razor said the existing stopcock will do. Even if it's on your land unless the water main for everyone runs through your land you will be connected at a point outside your land and they can stop it there.

sandydan

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I don't know what people hope to achieve by stopping water meters being installed. Surely unless they are using above average amounts of water a meter is a good thing. They only pay for what they use.
I know people object because the charges are effectively a new tax but providing piped water to houses has cost associated and that is what the charges in theory pays for.
I would think that if you don't pay your water could be cut off as I don't think anybody has a constitutional right to piped water. You can still get it in a bucket from whatever water body is the source. As razor said the existing stopcock will do. Even if it's on your land unless the water main for everyone runs through your land you will be connected at a point outside your land and they can stop it there.

i suppose they want irish water to sort out leaks in system. most water leaks in Dublin and other cities are between reservoir treatment plant and up to meters, very little in comparison to that amount is wasted after imo.its causes problems for householder . all farmers are metered and household exemption is being discontinued for them.

Markcheese

razor8 wrote: »

They don't, existing box or stopcock will do that

I know that'll turn off the water, but wont stop "anyone" turning it back on again ... Sure I heard Irish water say that no-one would be completely cut just supply cut to a trickle .... Dunno can that be done with existing stop-cocks either-especially when Irish water are being denied access to the stop-cocks anyway...

sandydan

any one got definite information water billing other than what ive posted