Carrick race paddys day

Bianchi00

Any info on the race for monday

moonshadow

Carrick ...
Macross,
On-Shannon ,
On- suir,
Mines,
Dale,

GMCI

Saint Patrick’s Day Races Carrick-on-Suir, 17th March 2014

As is now tradition, Iverk Produce Carrick Wheelers Cycling Club will hold their annual Saint Patrick’s Day races on 17th March 2014. There will be three separate races on the “Glenbower” circuit as follows:

• Bobby Power Memorial for A1s, A2s – three laps (100k), starting at 1100 hours;
• Tommy Sheehan Memorial for A3s – three laps (100k), starting at 1105 hours;
• Landy Cup for A4s – two laps (66k), starting at 1110 hours.

Race HQ and sign-on is by kind permission of Carrick United FC, Coolnamuck Road (R680), Carrickbeg, Carrick-on-Suir and will be open from 0900 hours.

Start and finish is at Sir John’s Hill on the R696, approximately 1.5k from Carrick-on-Suir town centre, please allow 15 minutes to cycle from the sign-on location to the start/finish area.

Entry fee for all races is €15 and each races is limited to a field size of 150 – first come, first served! Those wishing to ensure their participation may email Rory Wyley at rjwyley@hotmail.com detailing their name, club (if applicable) and full licence number {e.g., 14A10013 (VET)} by Friday 14th March.

Winners in 2013 were:

A1s, A2s - Páidí O’Brien (Planet Tri);
A3s – Dylan Foley (Nicholas Roche Performance Team);
A4s – Barry Meehan (Worldwide Cycles).

For further queries please contact race organiser Paul Lonergan – 086 8718433

Route Information - “Glenbower” Circuit
Start at top of Sir John’s Hill on R696 approximately 1.5k from Carrick-on-Suir town centre;
Proceed on R696 for c. 7k to junction with N72, turn left;
Proceed on N72 for c. 10k to Kilheffernan roundabout (junction with N24), take first exit from roundabout on to N24 in direction of Carrick-on-Suir;
Follow N24 to Carrick-on-Suir for c. 15k, bear left at Butler’s bar on to R696 and continue for c. 1k to finish.

Slo_Rida

GMCI wrote: »

each races is limited to a field size of 150

Could there actually be 150 people allowed off in say an A4 peloton?
There's no way that should be allowed. There were 100 in the Rás Luimni A4 bunch last week and it was hairy.

michael196

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Could there actually be 150 people allowed off in say an A4 peloton?
There's no way that should be allowed. There were 100 in the Rás Luimni A4 bunch last week and it was hairy.

150 has to be a typo.

Each (race) category is limited to 140, by Ci technical rules, so max 140 x A4 ( own race ) , Max 140 x A3 ( own race ) etc. max 140 in combined A1/A2

However organiser can limit lower than 140 if the circuit cannot handle 140 safely.
)
Same circuit as tommy Sheehy (?) last year Slo. Remember a crash up at the junction on the Kilkenny road ?

Slo_Rida

michael196 wrote: »

150 has to be a typo.

Each (race) category is limited to 140, by Ci technical rules, so max 140 x A4 ( own race ) , Max 140 x A3 ( own race ) etc. max 140 in combined A1/A2

However organiser can limit lower than 140 if the circuit cannot handle 140 safely.
)
Same circuit as tommy Sheehy (?) last year Slo. Remember a crash up at the junction on the Kilkenny road ?

Yeah I know, it's one of the safest circuits around but 150? Even 140! The run into the finish with 150 will be mental.

I must have been in front of that crash cos I never heard anything of it.

ragazzo

140 maximum field for races as defined by CI and quoted by michael196.

Is there a derogation for stage races?

lennymc

was the 140 limit not were A4 riders were racing with other categories in a h/cap race? ie, if there were more than 140 riders in total in an h/cap race, the A4's were to have a seperate race. IIRC there was something mentioned about field size at the AGM and the response was that 198(?) is the upper limit for a race under uci rules. I could be wrong tho.

edit - from the technical regs - chapter t5:

11. In races open to senior category riders including A4s i.e. handicap races up to 80kms, the maximum
number of riders permitted to start shall be 140. Where promoters accept in excess of 140 entries than a
separate race for A4s must be run. Both races may be on the same course at the same time. However
the time gap between the start time for each event must be such that under normal circumstances the
two races will not intermingle.

ragazzo

That is what I understood from the regulations, Lenny and I think you are correct.

I was posing a question to michael196 as he seemed to be aware of some other regulation and I thought he might have received some information which had not being published yet. ( due to his role as a race organiser)

lennymc

ragazzo wrote: »

That is what I understood from the regulations, Lenny and I think you are correct.

I was posing a question to michael196 as he seemed to be aware of some other regulation and I thought he might have received some information which had not being published yet. ( due to his role as a race organiser)

I hadn't heard anything about changes in the size of fields (I was in with CI on Tuesday about a race this weekend), and afaik no one in the club has heard anything either.

GMCI

lennymc is correct.

Michael196 is incorrect.

Aside from the field restriction in handicap races where if the overall number across all categories exceeds 140, then A4s are taken out and ran separately.
There is no maximum limit in Cycling Ireland Regs so referral to the UCI Regs is made and it is maximised at 200 riders.

However a rule does exist within CI regs which I have yet to see happen and it is as follows:

"If more than 100 riders enter for a race the organiser may, at his discretion, divide the field into two races with equal prize funds."

Race organisers can do everything required of them in accordance with the safety code but no matter what, bike handling skills, or lack of, are the cause of the majority of crashes.
Newbridge A3 race had 119 riders, yet the only crash of the day was in the A1/A2 race with a smaller field. Crashes happen. Why? because Road Racing is a dangerous sport. If overly concerned with the possibility of a crash, then Leisure cycles could be a more suitable environment for you. Because all I see from reading all these comments about crashes etc is now causing scaremongering that will lead to the cancellation of more races by organisers who wont appreciate the criticisms received as a result of organising an event for your social pleasure while trying to satisfy Garda and Local Authority requirements which is a political nightmare in certain parts of the country.

lennymc

well said gmci - crashing is a part of racing. If you race you will probably crash at some stage.
in relation to the split fields - what way would the points work out?

GMCI

In the interest of fairness, the same amount of points would be available for the second race also. It would be identical to the original so it would have to be the case.

Starting to panic for Sunday?? lol

Slo_Rida

GMCI wrote: »

lennymc is correct.

Michael196 is incorrect.

Aside from the field restriction in handicap races where if the overall number across all categories exceeds 140, then A4s are taken out and ran separately.
There is no maximum limit in Cycling Ireland Regs so referral to the UCI Regs is made and it is maximised at 200 riders.

However a rule does exist within CI regs which I have yet to see happen and it is as follows:

"If more than 100 riders enter for a race the organiser may, at his discretion, divide the field into two races with equal prize funds."

Race organisers can do everything required of them in accordance with the safety code but no matter what, bike handling skills, or lack of, are the cause of the majority of crashes.
Newbridge A3 race had 119 riders, yet the only crash of the day was in the A1/A2 race with a smaller field. Crashes happen. Why? because Road Racing is a dangerous sport. If overly concerned with the possibility of a crash, then Leisure cycles could be a more suitable environment for you. Because all I see from reading all these comments about crashes etc is now causing scaremongering that will lead to the cancellation of more races by organisers who wont appreciate the criticisms received as a result of organising an event for your social pleasure while trying to satisfy Garda and Local Authority requirements which is a political nightmare in certain parts of the country.

Hang on a second. I was the one who raised the question about field sizes and nowhere did I mention crashes. A very large field removes some of the "social pleasure" for me, that is all. I've been down a couple of times myself and hold little fear of it. If there are 100+ people in the group, it is more difficult to stay near the front and strictly speaking if you go to the back, I feel it is impossible to get back to the front without breaking code.

And to further your own point, I agree, poor bike skills cause most crashes...so...in the category where you have beginners and low-experienced riders (and therefore the worst bike skills), how can you justify the same size field as a pro/elite peloton? That was your point and not mine.

And if someone does come onto this discussion website to have a moan about a crash (as is their right), why would race organisers take it as a criticism? If they are at fault for the crash then they ought to but if they're not then they moan is not at them.

I'd also like it if my point about the field sizes being too big could be revisited after the dust has settled.

And apologies to the OP. I'll be in Carrick with bells on regardless of scaremongering or monster field sizes!!

Bianchi00

Is it the same circuit as last years race on paddy day under the bridge & up hill climb to the Finish

lennymc

GMCI wrote: »

In the interest of fairness, the same amount of points would be available for the second race also. It would be identical to the original so it would have to be the case.

Starting to panic for Sunday?? lol

wondering if a strategic split could work - all the juniors in race one......

slow

I think the Carrick organisers are reacting to the Usher IRC cancellation. Will Dublin riders travel 1.45 to Carrick? I don't know. But, it's sensible to say that a limit exists. Knowing Rory Wyley, there'll be 6 sign on sheets for the A3 race and no more. It's a nice early start for a race. Even if you win a prize and stay for the presentation, you'll be back in Dublin before 6pm.

michael196

Bianchi00 wrote: »

Is it the same circuit as last years race on paddy day under the bridge & up hill climb to the Finish

yep. wont be there myself Slo, but best of luck to u.

michael196

11. In races open to senior category riders including A4s i.e. handicap races up to 80kms, the maximum number of riders permitted to start shall be 140


does this not say max field per category is 140.

Hmmzis

michael196 wrote: »

11. In races open to senior category riders including A4s i.e. handicap races up to 80kms, the maximum number of riders permitted to start shall be 140


does this not say max field per category is 140.

Nope, it says for handicap races. Last year the early season handicap races had 300ish strong fields and that was getting a bit iffy.

ragazzo

michael196 wrote: »

11. In races open to senior category riders including A4s i.e. handicap races up to 80kms, the maximum number of riders permitted to start shall be 140


does this not say max field per category is 140.

This clearly states that the maximum field for a handicap race including A4's shall not exceed 140 riders.
If there is in excess of 140 riders the organiser has to hold a separate A4 race.

abc_xyz

Interesting race today. Large group in the A4 with 94. Spent a lot of time in the middle/back of the group and thought it was very twitchy and lots of people going across the line to move up and then staying there. There wa a massive crash in the first lap for no major reason - as in a straight road and no road furniture. I didn't see it as it was right behind me but heard bikes hit the road like dominos - bizarrely all I heard was an initial exclamation and then the repeated impacts of carbon hitting the road - no shouts or metal or crashing. Got dropped at the top of the hill at the end of the first lap and got in various groups which merged into about 12 and we finally got back in after 10-15km of hard chasing. Saw another few scares after that including one guy who ended up in the grass but bunny hopped back onto the road and kept it upright. I didn't know whether to congratulate his bike handling or mention the fact if he got it wrong (he only scored a 6/10 due to wobbling on the landing ) he'd have taken out at least 3 other guys behind him. Two guys went away with a few km to go and there didn't seem to be much of a chase - saw Waterford do a bit but didn't really see anyone else (too far down the back maybe). Died half way up the final hill and rolled in. Good event from Carrick with lots of marshals. Hope all fallers okay.

inc21

Ya it was a good race. Pretty happy with my own bike handling today. Just about managed to avoid 2 crashes. Guy in front of me pulled is front brake I think and went flying over the bars. Took down fellow next to him also. I thought here we go, this is going to hurt but went over his back wheel and managed to stay upright. Got back to the bunch and soon the big one happened not to far up front, body's and bikes everywhere. They went down hard. Think A1 race was neutralized because of it. And ya man on the grass was right in front of me. I pulled back expecting him to go down but amazingly he never did.
Great race and great circuit all the same!

slow

A good day's racing. Crashes in the A1/A2 and A4 races. Commissaire Brian Jordan is to be commended for stopping the A3 race to admonish the riders who were repeatedly on the wrong side of the road. It was a much safer race after that and we're all able to do our normal Tuesday thing today free of road rash, broken bones, etc.

joe50

enjoyable race in the a3, the bunch was very nervous all the way through though, which was unfortunate.. there were a few very close calls, particularly with the road furniture on the main road

still, as slow mentioned, the commissaire definitely calmed things down a bit by stopping the race.. very negative racing from many of the juniors I thought, given that dunbar and o'brien are away I would've thought they'd be mad to get up the road and make an impression, but the end result was that they all sat in watching each other.. also, some of the carry on in the lead in to the sprint was a bit hairy, fellas attempting to throw digs to stay on wheels etc etc..

also, many of the people complaining about the bunch being dangerous are the last to go up the road.. which puzzles me a bit.. surely the safest place to be is off the front of the bunch? you can take whatever line you want.. and there's generally no danger of anyone else taking you out

anyway, all told, a very well run event, thoroughly enjoyable

and fair play to the o'laughlins for bringing back the break and taking the win..

was a bit surprising given that there was a carrick man up the road, but I guess given that they took the win nobody was too bothered

Slo_Rida

I was in the A4 race, the bigger crash looked horrid, would like to hear some positive report on the crashees. The other crash was bizarre, I had a good view of it and all I saw was his front wheel stopped and he didn't, out over the bars he went. Locked his front brakes by accident maybe?

Safe course, well marshalled and a great crowd out. The emphasis was definitely on cake in the post race refreshments and Jesus it was nice!!

Pawlie

joe50 wrote: »

enjoyable race in the a3, the bunch was very nervous all the way through though, which was unfortunate.. there were a few very close calls, particularly with the road furniture on the main road

still, as slow mentioned, the commissaire definitely calmed things down a bit by stopping the race.. very negative racing from many of the juniors I thought, given that dunbar and o'brien are away I would've thought they'd be mad to get up the road and make an impression, but the end result was that they all sat in watching each other.. also, some of the carry on in the lead in to the sprint was a bit hairy, fellas attempting to throw digs to stay on wheels etc etc..



anyway, all told, a very well run event, thoroughly enjoyable

and fair play to the o'laughlins for bringing back the break and taking the win..
was a bit surprising given that there was a carrick man up the road, but I guess given that they took the win nobody was too bothered

Are yea sure yea where in same race as me,juniors where not negative its the same awl storey lads dont want to work with juniors,many a time they drilled it up glenbower trying to break it up,twice it snapped with about 20
riders in it but only a few would work with them,so why should they continue drilling it on the flat when they dont have the gears.

Last break went away before the roundabout at clonmel with 4 lads in it then at Killsheelan a clubmate and another went to bridge across,so myself and another mate slowed the bunch down and gave him time to get over,we knew he was the stronger rider and would win if bunch didnt catch them,only a few lads tried to attack and get across but we covered all them and nullified the bunch for 13km until 2nd last turn left,I had blown then and could not see team mate go under bridge so was sure he would win,but young O loughlin drilled it with his father behind him and led him up the last km and it was only Martin (father) that caught him with 25mtr to go,
yea just need to look at photos of finish to see the damage that O loughlin jr did,was sick team mate didnt win after the effort he made to get across,really though team did enough,

Slo_Rida

Pawlie wrote: »

Are yea sure yea where in same race as me,juniors where not negative its the same awl storey lads dont want to work with juniors,many a time they drilled it up glenbower trying to break it up,twice it snapped with about 20
riders in it but only a few would work with them,so why should they continue drilling it on the flat when they dont have the gears.

Last break went away before the roundabout at clonmel with 4 lads in it then at Killsheelan a clubmate and another went to bridge across,so myself and another mate slowed the bunch down and gave him time to get over,we knew he was the stronger rider and would win if bunch didnt catch them,only a few lads tried to attack and get across but we covered all them and nullified the bunch for 13km until 2nd last turn left,I had blown then and could not see team mate go under bridge so was sure he would win,but young O loughlin drilled it with his father behind him and led him up the last km and it was only Martin (father) that caught him with 25mtr to go,
yea just need to look at photos of finish to see the damage that O loughlin jr did,was sick team mate didnt win after the effort he made to get across,really though team did enough,

link to the photos?

Pawlie

Slo_Rida wrote: »

link to the photos?

one sec pal,how yea fair out,one our lads broke frame in half in a4

Pawlie

one set here dude,lad with black dolan in half is clubmate
https://www.facebook.com/john.m.troy/media_set?set=a.835900766427053.1073741974.100000214136060&type=1

joe50

Pawlie wrote: »

Are yea sure yea where in same race as me,juniors where not negative its the same awl storey lads dont want to work with juniors,many a time they drilled it up glenbower trying to break it up,twice it snapped with about 20
riders in it but only a few would work with them,so why should they continue drilling it on the flat when they dont have the gears.


... young O loughlin drilled it with his father behind him and led him up the last km and it was only Martin (father) that caught him with 25mtr to go,

there was nothing going in the first 2 laps.. a few lads went up the road, but they were plenty more who were sitting in waiting for the sprint (not only juniors in fairness, that wasn't what i was getting at)

going up around the glenblower climb it was lined out, but it all came back together again shortly afterwards, lads seem to have loads of legs for pulling back breaks, but none for going up the road
(that's what i mean by negative racing btw)

note, i'm not complaining about the juniors, only for them the racing could've been even more negative.. I'm just a bit surprised that in the absence of o'brien and dunbar there wasn't more of them trying to make any attacks stick..


edit:

O'Laughlin junior did an incredible turn on the front towards the end, pretty much brought the break back single handed.. as I mentioned, somewhat surprising given that there was a carrick man in the break, but still, they won it outright in the end, so fair play, unsurprisingly they were rewarded for racing aggressively and going flat to the mat.. why there isn't more like them is beyond me

Pawlie

more of the a3 finish
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201059566365828&set=pcb.10201059572605984&type=1&theater

Pawlie

joe50 wrote: »

there was nothing going in the first 2 laps.. a few lads went up the road, but they were plenty more who were sitting in waiting for the sprint (not only juniors in fairness, that wasn't what i was getting at)

going up around the glenblower climb it was lined out, but it all came back together again shortly afterwards, lads seem to have loads of legs for pulling back breaks, but none for going up the road
(that's what i mean by negative racing btw)

note, i'm not complaining about the juniors, only for them the racing could've been even more negative.. I'm just a bit surprised that in the absence of o'brien and dunbar there wasn't more of them trying to make any attacks stick..


edit:

O'Laughlin junior did an incredible turn on the front towards the end, pretty much brought the break back single handed.. as I mentioned, somewhat surprising given that there was a carrick man in the break, but still, they won it outright in the end, so fair play, unsurprisingly they were rewarded for racing aggressively and going flat to the mat.. why there isn't more like them is beyond me

But you said "very negative riding from the juniors",

Slo_Rida

Pawlie wrote: »

one sec pal,how yea fair out,one our lads broke frame in half in a4

Unbelievable that ye had 11 men in a race and didn't clean up the podium!!! At least the big fella scored. I got 4th, couldn't believe the 2 lads stayed away. Went for it early on the hill and got a good gap but a carrick guy grabbed my wheel and beat me to third. Raging as I need one more point to get up :mad:
Heard about the Dolan, hope they're ok. Poor Gandolph broke spokes at the end of lap one, he broke a wheel last week too, some man!

Pawlie

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Unbelievable that ye had 11 men in a race and didn't clean up the podium!!! At least the big fella scored. I got 4th, couldn't believe the 2 lads stayed away. Went for it early on the hill and got a good gap but a carrick guy grabbed my wheel and beat me to third. Raging as I need one more point to get up :mad:
Heard about the Dolan, hope they're ok. Poor Gandolph broke spokes at the end of lap one, he broke a wheel last week too, some man!

They all very new to racing,the Des Hanlon will suit the big man bigtime,wont be long till yea up outha that mad bunch

Slo_Rida

Pawlie wrote: »

They all very new to racing,the Des Hanlon will suit the big man bigtime,wont be long till yea up outha that mad bunch

Ah yea, I'm nearly ready! It's getting tougher in A4 I think.

Pawlie

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Ah yea, I'm nearly ready! It's getting tougher in A4 I think.

well i looking forward to seeing yea in the bunch soon

Slo_Rida

Pawlie wrote: »

well i looking forward to seeing yea in the bunch soon

Nobody will see me in the bunch soon...hanging off the back chewing the stem is where I'll be at

Pawlie

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Nobody will see me in the bunch soon...hanging off the back chewing the stem is where I'll be at

or chewing lennys ears ha ha ha ha

joe50

Pawlie wrote: »

But you said "very negative riding from the juniors",

yeah, and from everyone else too... having loads of legs to bring back anything that goes up the road.. but none to actually go up the road yourself.. seems a bit silly to me

Pawlie

I would not call it negative racing,it might be alot more cautious and with a good few strong lads from diff clubs they are going to mark one another,it happens alot,and if lads are going to attack one another they will but they aint gona drag bunch around,that's why yea could see why some guys did try go up road they came back fairly quickly apart from the last one and in that case we knew we had the strongest guy in it and he was 25mtrs away from win.

For most the race it was the same lads attacking and the same lads for most the race at the front hoping they didnt miss a move.

joe50

Pawlie wrote: »

I would not call it negative racing,it might be alot more cautious and with a good few strong lads from diff clubs they are going to mark one another,it happens alot,and if lads are going to attack one another they will but they aint gona drag bunch around,that's why yea could see why some guys did try go up road they came back fairly quickly apart from the last one and in that case we knew we had the strongest guy in it and he was 25mtrs away from win.

For most the race it was the same lads attacking and the same lads for most the race at the front hoping they didnt miss a move.

ah yeah, I agree

I wouldn't say that negative racing is necessarily a bad thing either though, it's just a type of racing.. and if you have a fast man for a sprint (as you did), then it can work out pretty well (as it did!)

lennymc

Slo_Rida wrote: »

Nobody will see me in the bunch soon...hanging off the back chewing the stem is where I'll be at

well stay away from me!!

Pawlie

lennymc wrote: »

well stay away from me!!

in like flynn yea are ha ha ha ha

lennymc

Pawlie wrote: »

in like flynn yea are ha ha ha ha

hanging off the back of the a3 bunch is my thing. No way am I sharing it with Slo_rida.....

Plus, he crashes a lot.

Slo_Rida

lennymc wrote: »

hanging off the back of the a3 bunch is my thing. No way am I sharing it with Slo_rida.....

Plus, he crashes a lot.

Ironic that you would suggest I stay away from you since YOU caused my first crash - a cherry that I was keeping for someone special!!