Options post 2015

maxxuumman

just been up in calf shed getting calves ready fir mart tomorrow and it has me thinking about what to do from next year on. The calf end of the spring it taking alot of time, when I should be concentrating on cows. And to be honest the whole thing with the Fresian bull calf is giving me the hump.
All of the farm is in one block, next year I'll have to either rent ground for replacements or get them contract reared.
Just looking at options going forward
Option1, AI heifers and some cows, and run He/AA to tidy up. To do this it will mean, having to rent ground to rear replacement heifers or get them contract reared. There'll be the extra labour of rearing the heifer calves and the labour involved at AI season.
Option2, just let He/AA bull the cows. Buy in the replacements as springer heifers. Much simpler to work, but herd no longer a closed herd. The herd is PBNR, so no issues with pedigree status.

What do ye think

TEAT SQUEEZER

maxxuumman wrote: »

just been up in calf shed getting calves ready fir mart tomorrow and it has me thinking about what to do from next year on. The calf end of the spring it taking alot of time, when I should be concentrating on cows. And to be honest the whole thing with the Fresian bull calf is giving me the hump.
All of the farm is in one block, next year I'll have to either rent ground for replacements or get them contract reared.
Just looking at options going forward
Option1, AI heifers and some cows, and run He/AA to tidy up. To do this it will mean, having to rent ground to rear replacement heifers or get them contract reared. There'll be the extra labour of rearing the heifer calves and the labour involved at AI season.
Option2, just let He/AA bull the cows. Buy in the replacements as springer heifers. Much simpler to work, but herd no longer a closed herd. The herd is PBNR, so no issues with pedigree status.

What do ye think

if labour is you most limiting factor then contract rear might be your best option ...depending on when they leave farm you`ll avoid calf rearing, all the rearing from then on and their mating so thts substantial .

downside to buying in is stock quality ,and quantity post 2015, is unknown..
health issues can be minimised buying off farm and doing your research ...

then again if your unable/unwilling to rear replacements will others?

Farmer Pudsey

The biggest issue getting other to rear replacements is it will have to be profitable to rearer. The idea that these will be reared at the same cost as you would do yourself is not a runner. The reared will need a margin as well.

Another is will be age at which rearer takes calves. While most Dairy farmers are set up to rear calves most lads that will want/be available to rear calves may not be set up to rear(housing or working outside farm) these calves until 12 weeks of age.

I think that dairy heifer rearing may become a specialist business and a very expensive one.

td5man

I think it would be better financially to go with a beef bull and sell all calves at a decent price and buy in freshly calved heifers/cows when you consider that you can buy them at what it costs to rear them.
Disease is an issue, i lost 52 milkers froma closed herd to tb.

rancher

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The biggest issue getting other to rear replacements is it will have to be profitable to rearer. The idea that these will be reared at the same cost as you would do yourself is not a runner. The reared will need a margin as well.

Another is will be age at which rearer takes calves. While most Dairy farmers are set up to rear calves most lads that will want/be available to rear calves may not be set up to rear(housing or working outside farm) these calves until 12 weeks of age.

I think that dairy heifer rearing may become a specialist business and a very expensive one.

I posted that a couple weeks back, Irish dairy farmers here talking about around €1 day for rearing and the English farming forum talking about £2/day....slight difference

Farmer Pudsey

rancher wrote: »

I posted that a couple weeks back, Irish dairy farmers here talking about around €1 day for rearing and the English farming forum talking about £2/day....slight difference

This idea by Irish dairy farmers that other sectors in farming should carry there costs is build into there thinking. Why should it not be when you look at the way farmers pay about double the commercial value of calves.

1 euro/day is crazy however historically they have got heifers contract grazed for 70c/day from March to November and this is year and a halfs. However the battle for land will change this as dairying will need about 50% more land post 2015. This will be in the form of ending of dairy beef enterprises, extra rented land, contract growing of cereals and rearing of heifers. This pressure has already increases land rental prices.

Post 2015 I expect calf prices to drop as is happening at present. This again will put pressure on costs to farming services to dairy farmers (contract growing and rearing as well as pressure on land).

kevthegaff

Im thinking about selling all calves as WH and AA and buying in replacement ready to calve. I coud milk an extra 20 cows and have more time away from the farm

biddy2013

kevthegaff wrote: »

Im thinking about selling all calves as WH and AA and buying in replacement ready to calve. I coud milk an extra 20 cows and have more time away from the farm

would work well ideally but tbh most of the animals i have bought in over the years cause alot more trouble than what its worth, there's no stand in for having your own replacements.

Greengrass1

biddy2013 wrote: »

would work well ideally but tbh most of the animals i have bought in over the years cause alot more trouble than what its worth, there's no stand in for having your own replacements.

Very true. Your only really buying what the lad that's selling doesn't want.
We bought a lot of cows here over the yrs and in the end we stopped because we couldn't get them back incalf and ended up in square one again. Were doing much better now rearing our own.
That's were your extra income will cone from, being able to sell your surplus stock

farmerjj

I think breeding your own heifers and rearing them yourself is prob best way to go as you can pick best cows to breed from instead of others rejects, and also by rearing them yourself it would be better from health as less chance of mixing with other cattle.

visatorro

often thought about just letting four angus or whitehead bulls out with the cows and selling the calves. like other posters thou I found buying large amount of replacements doesnt really work. maybe only if you had a neighbour you could trust that, you knew the stock quality and disease free status, it might work.

Gillespy

It is so tempting to go down the beef bull route and buy in the replacements as you need them. I would have so many empty sheds at the moment, only a few calves waiting for cards and then the cows. It would be lovely.

A few things stopping me, principally the risks when buying and my gra for breeding cows, seeing heifers come through, that kind of thing. Not great reasons really and the disease one can be overcome buying from reputable sellers.

keep going

One problem with buying heifers calved is cashflow.you are paying out a lump of money just when you buying everything else or my case payng the rent

kevthegaff

i dont know keep going, first your saving two years straight in terms of milk production, your WH calves will pay for most/all of your replacements and less milk to feed calves

keep going

kevthegaff wrote: »

i dont know keep going, first your saving two years straight in terms of milk production, your WH calves will pay for most/all of your replacements and less milk to feed calves

The problem then is you have to find the lad that will sell you his early best heifers.in terms of calf value dosent it work out the same on 50, 50 bull heifer basis between fr and hd

keep going

kevthegaff wrote: »

i dont know keep going, first your saving two years straight in terms of milk production, your WH calves will pay for most/all of your replacements and less milk to feed calves

The problem then is you have to find the lad that will sell you his early best heifers.in terms of calf value dosent it work out the same on 50, 50 bull heifer basis between fr and hd ie that the bull and heifer both come to 400 on average for two

Farmer Pudsey

kevthegaff wrote: »

i dont know keep going, first your saving two years straight in terms of milk production, your WH calves will pay for most/all of your replacements and less milk to feed calves

In a way you are right kev, using a beef bull would keep calving interval tight and at present prices a hereford bull and heifer would make 400-500 euro at 3 weeks as opposed to a fresian bull maybe 80. You might average 10-15 days extra milk/cow( between tighter calving and shorter gestation). At 33c/litre this would be worth arounf 100 euro/cow. saving on AI straws might be 10/cow and rearing cost for heifer's at 1 euro/day to calving down and miscellanous costs 850 euro.

However nothing remains the same and as other posters allude very few farmers will sell the best or average of there heifers. Also the advent of sexed semen will drop the price of beef calves. On the other hand the cost of rearing heifers if outsourcing will increase.

keep going wrote: »

One problem with buying heifers calved is cashflow.you are paying out a lump of money just when you buying everything else or my case payng the rent

This is a cash managment issue totally different to a costing issue. The only times it would really be an issue is if as I think beef calves drop in value by 30% post 2018 with the advent of seved semen

kevthegaff

your also skipping two years if you want to turn on the tap:D, theres pros and cons and im still trying to figure out which way is best, ill probably reduce replacements to maybe 20 early heifers for a 120 cow herd and buy in 5-10 heifers. What do ye think of keeping late heifers that didnt go back in calf??

visatorro

. not being smart but is there any point in rearing twenty heifers yourself and buying ten. having ten more heifers wont be that much extra work. another posted a possible saving of 850 if you sold all your calves. surely with all the extra heifers post 15 being born, replacement should be 1200-1300. maybe? im not on about which breed, but supply should outweight demand for stock. if it ment more time with family etc then it would have to be seriousily considered

Farmer Pudsey

visatorro wrote: »

. not being smart but is there any point in rearing twenty heifers yourself and buying ten. having ten more heifers wont be that much extra work. another posted a possible saving of 850 if you sold all your calves. surely with all the extra heifers post 15 being born, replacement should be 1200-1300. maybe? im not on about which breed, but supply should outweight demand for stock. if it ment more time with family etc then it would have to be seriousily considered

The difference may not be in the workload but rather in the timing of beef bull being left in. To get 20 heifers you may have to AI 50 cows this migh be achieveable in 3 weeks. 30 may require using AI on 75-80 cows( later cows more issues) which may mean 6 weeks. This might stretch out calving by a few weeks.

kevthegaff

Has anyone here use Brown Swiss, my brother was recommending them to me