Carrying extra passengers

Thespoofer

I'm looking for a definite answer before I go further..
A situation in the workplace where a work truck designed to carry one passenger along with the driver but has a bunk bed behind the seats which is used to carry extra passengers ( anything up to 3 adults ) on a regular basis.
What penalties can the driver face, if any for this even if the other passengers consent to sitting there. I have rang the Gardai and asked only to be forwarded to the RSA site which is very unclear in this matter.

source

Thespoofer wrote: »

I'm looking for a definite answer before I go further..
A situation in the workplace where a work truck designed to carry one passenger along with the driver but has a bunk bed behind the seats which is used to carry extra passengers ( anything up to 3 adults ) on a regular basis.
What penalties can the driver face, if any for this even if the other passengers consent to sitting there. I have rang the Gardai and asked only to be forwarded to the RSA site which is very unclear in this matter.

Are there seatbelts for the extra passengers and does the insurance cover carrying them?

Thespoofer

source wrote: »

Are there seatbelts for the extra passengers and does the insurance cover carrying them?

No, there is not any seatbelts so I presume there isn't insurance cover. Thats the reason I would like to know before taking it any further and asking to see the insurance cert, if the driver is open to penalties.

source

Thespoofer wrote: »

No, there is not any seatbelts so I presume there isn't insurance cover. Thats the reason I would like to know before taking it any further and asking to see the insurance cert, if the driver is open to penalties.

Well if there are no seatbelts for them then they can't be in there, likewise if you're not covered to carry them, it could invalidate your insurance in the event of a crash.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/roads_and_safety/seatbelts_when_motoring_in_ireland.html

unclebill98

If the VLC does not state its a crew cab then no, you are not insured.

timmy4u2

Thespoofer wrote: »

I'm looking for a definite answer before I go further..
A situation in the workplace where a work truck designed to carry one passenger along with the driver but has a bunk bed behind the seats which is used to carry extra passengers ( anything up to 3 adults ) on a regular basis.
What penalties can the driver face, if any for this even if the other passengers consent to sitting there. I have rang the Gardai and asked only to be forwarded to the RSA site which is very unclear in this matter.

The Law states that, in relation to cars and goods vehicles if seat belts are provided they must be worn.
The following on assumption that the vehicle is post 1992.

Section 5 (1) Part 2 of EU Community compulsory Use of Safety and Child Restraint Sysyem in Motor Vehicles Regs 2006

If there is seating for four people and only three seatbelts the fourth person can legally travel unbelted.
If any one of those passengers is under seventeen then there is an onus on the DRIVER to ensure that that sub seventeen year old is belted.
So if seat belts are not provided it is not an offence to travel unbelted.
Insurance companies will insure the number of passengers that seats are provided for.

Thespoofer

I guessed the insurance would not cover them as they are sitting on a ' bed ' behind the seats without belts, they are not proper seats.
It isn't my truck or my insurance, what I'm trying to figure out is, is the driver liable for penalty points for carrying adults in a situation as described ( uninsured passengers etc ).

timmy4u2

Thespoofer wrote: »

I guessed the insurance would not cover them as they are sitting on a ' bed ' behind the seats without belts, they are not proper seats.
It isn't my truck or my insurance, what I'm trying to figure out is, is the driver liable for penalty points for carrying adults in a situation as described ( uninsured passengers etc ).

Well you are into the realm of whats a proper seat and I would assume it would need to come within type approval so I would presume that such a bed would not qualify..
The driver is not responsible for anybody over 17yrs not wearing a seat belt.
Insurance wise it would be a grey area but at all times you are an employee doing as directed and that is always a good defence.
If there is a CE&U of Vehicles Act breach as to the fitting of seat belts that would be an owner issue IMO

Going Forward

Thespoofer wrote: »

I guessed the insurance would not cover them as they are sitting on a ' bed ' behind the seats without belts, they are not proper seats.
It isn't my truck or my insurance, what I'm trying to figure out is, is the driver liable for penalty points for carrying adults in a situation as described ( uninsured passengers etc ).

As mentioned above, seatbelts must be worn IF provided. But that's hardly the same as permitting people to sit unrestrained on what is actually a bed and not a seat.

Drivers are now legally required to make daily written records of the vehicles condition, with any concerns being brought to the owner's attention .

This issue would need to be addressed by the driver under these requirements .

Is there a vehicle owners manual at hand? It may give details of passenger carrying capacity.

timmy4u2

Basically these issues are down to interpretation of the rules, regulations and Acts plus any cases stated/judgments given down in similar circumstances.

It can hardly be argued by your employer, or his agent that it was not known that the vehicle did not have proper seats in the back and that you were required to transport persons who would not have proper seating.

If, in the unlikely event that it was held that the bed could be regarded as a seat (s) within the meaning of the act then there is no offence as long as there are no caveats in the Policy document.

In the absence of any other definition of a "seat" the definition as applied to a large PSV vehicle could be applied

Seats.
75. (1) In a vehicle, each seat shall be of adequate dimensions, with a closed or continuous back rest of adequate size, and the supports of the seat shall be firmly fixed in position.

(2) Each seat in a vehicle shall be so constructed, and placed in such a position, as not to be likely to cause discomfort to any passenger.

(3) Where any seat in a vehicle is so placed that a passenger seated upon it is liable to be thrown through any exit or entrance or down a stairway, an effective screen or guard shall be placed so as to provide protection for any passenger occupying that seat.

(4) In a vehicle, there shall be a clear space of at least 3 feet measured vertically above the centre of the front edge of each seat or portion of seat allowed to each passenger.

(5) In a vehicle, the shortest distance between the edge of any step well and vertical plane passing through the front edge of a seat shall not be less than 9 inches.

(6) In a vehicle the distance between any part of the back rest of any seat placed lengthwise and the corresponding part of the back rest of the seat facing it shall not be less than 5 feet and 3 inches:

Provided that, in the case of a vehicle having passenger accommodation for not more than 14 persons, it shall be sufficient compliance with this requirement if the distance is not less than 4 feet and 6 inches.

(7) Seats placed lengthwise in a vehicle shall be so fitted that there is a clear space of at least—

(a) 8 inches in front of any part of every such seat, and
(b) 2 feet in front of the centre of the back rest of any such seat or any portion of such seat allowed for one passenge

If that is applied then the bed, provided it met with the definition, could be regarded as a seat.

Allianz insurance has this to say regarding insuring commercial vehicles

.....any Passenger unless that part of the Vehicle in which such Passenger is being accommodated is designed and constructed with fixed or folding seats permanently and securely installed in or on the Vehicle

That is a lax enough definition.
I am sure that there has been Court rulings (litigation) on seats and the definition.