Mirror - signal - mirror - manuver

CiniO

I heard once from driving instructor this sequence.
It makes sense obviously when changing lanes, turning, overtaking, etc...

What I'm interested though is how you do it?

mirror - signal - mirror - maneuver;

Because formula on it's own doesn't mean much.

Say you want to change lane.
1st step - you check mirror. And then what?
If there is something coming faster on lane you want to change - do you proceed to step two (indicate), or do you wait until road is clear, and only then indicate?

I see little point in giving the formula to learner drivers, unless they are explained how to use this formula.

Obviously further points should leave less doubts.
Once you are signalling, you check mirrors again, and then if road is free, you proceed with maneuver.

colm_mcm

Don't indicate unless its clear to move, don't move out till after you indicate. Don't move out till its clear to do so. Simple.

djimi

Its a simple way of drilling into people that you check twice and dont just assume that because the road was clear when you first checked that it will still be clear now that you want to execute the manoeuvre.

Its something thats thought to people by instructors; obviously it is usually followed up by further instruction and not just left up the imagination of the learner as to how best to interpret it...

biko

I wait to indicate until the car is just past, otherwise it may look to him and others like I might just change lanes suddenly without looking.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don't indicate unless its clear to move,

All good, but what are you meant to do in high traffic, when it's never clear to move ?

biko

If it's slow bumper to bumper traffic in both lanes just start indicating and move over when it's clear.

The main thing to keep in mind is to be clear for other road users.

djimi

You indicate to signal your intention, and as such it makes sense to do so as early as possible. I dont buy the idea that you dont signal if its not clear to move; there is nothing wrong with signalling early and letting the cars behind you know of your intention.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

I wait to indicate until the car is just past, otherwise it may look to him and others like I might just change lanes suddenly without looking.

Exactly.
I generally do the same.
Don't turn indicator in front of approaching car.
But if traffic is heavy, and I want to change lane, obviously I do indicate even lane is not clear.

I though it strange that people are taught just a formula without explanation what it means.
I talked to few novice drivers, and no one was able to answer if it was OK to indicate if when lane is not clear, but all of them knew mirror - signal- mirror - maneuver sequence thing.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I though it strange that people are taught just a formula without explanation what it means.
I talked to few novice drivers, and no one was able to answer if it was OK to indicate if when lane is not clear, but all of them knew mirror - signal- mirror - maneuver sequence thing.

Thought by who without explination? Its not something that we learned in baby infants...

It also doesnt exactly require a degree in rocket science to have a think about it and work out what the proper meaning in your head!

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Thought by who without explination? Its not something that we learned in baby infants...

By driving instructor when you are learning to drive.

It also doesnt exactly require a degree in rocket science to have a think about it and work out what the proper meaning in your head!

What's the point in teaching a formula which you have to work out anyway yourself.

It's like I heard it for the first time at ago of 30, after 13 years of driving, when I was doing my truck driving test.
I had few lessons with instructor beforehand, and he told me this: "mirror-signal-mirror-maneuver".
First thing that came to my mind - allright then. Does he want me to wait with indicating until road is completely clear, or he doesn't.
But to be honest - he wasn't able to answer this question.

As I said - I usually turn indicator, except in case where there is someone quickly approaching, as turning indicator just in front of him, could lead him to think that I might cross his way, and cause dangerous situation.

djimi

Its a while since I took lessons, but I seem to remember being told something similar by an instructor before he actually took me through the process while driving. Its not normally something that is just dropped into conversation casually and then forgotten about; not by any half ways decent instructor anyway.

If an instructor cant or wont explain it they are not someone who you want teaching you to drive. Plenty of good instructors out there who are able to actually back up the things they teach.

colm_mcm

CiniO wrote: »

All good, but what are you meant to do in high traffic, when it's never clear to move ?

Just open out the door.

stoneill

mirror - signal - mirror - maneuver

Don't read too much into it -
It's not an instruction or a set of rules - it's a guide to learners (and experienced drivers) that indicators do not give you the right of way, and to check your mirrors before, during and after your maneuver.
As always common sense should prevail.

Scartbeg

There's a (large) group of drivers who clearly don't follow this sequence.

i.e those who give one blink of the indicator after overtaking, when they are already half-way back into the left lane.

Honestly, the number of drivers who do this is mind boggling.
What purpose do they think this serves to other road users?

djimi

Scartbeg wrote: »

There's a (large) group of drivers who clearly don't follow this sequence.

i.e those who give one blink of the indicator after overtaking, when they are already half-way back into the left lane.

Honestly, the number of drivers who do this is mind boggling.
What purpose do they think this serves to other road users?

Its astonishing the number of drivers who dont understand that the purpose it so indicate your intentions to the other drivers. Indicating as you star the manoeuvre is pointless; may as well not bother at all.

colm_mcm

I call them "vindicators", they think once they indicate they're allowed do what they want.

CiniO

stoneill wrote: »

mirror - signal - mirror - maneuver

Don't read too much into it -
It's not an instruction or a set of rules - it's a guide to learners (and experienced drivers) that indicators do not give you the right of way, and to check your mirrors before, during and after your maneuver.
As always common sense should prevail.

My driving instructor - who taught me how to drive when I was 17, explained it to me in following way.

A good driver should not need to use mirror before maneuver.
Good driver should always know exactly what surrounds him. Where are other road useds in front, on sides and behind him. Once you learn this skill, looking at the mirror before maneuver is pure formality, because you already know before looking in it, if your way is free or not.

I must admit it took good few years to learn this skill, but that's definitely the way to approach driving - be fully aware of all of your surroundings at all times. Then looking at the mirrors before maneuvers is just a formality.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

My driving instructor - who taught me how to drive when I was 17, explained it to me in following way.

A good driver should not need to use mirror before maneuver.
Good driver should always know exactly what surrounds him. Where are other road useds in front, on sides and behind him. Once you learn this skill, looking at the mirror before maneuver is pure formality, because you already know before looking in it, if your way is free or not.

I must admit it took good few years to learn this skill, but that's definitely the way to approach driving - be fully aware of all of your surroundings at all times. Then looking at the mirrors before maneuvers is just a formality.

So in essence, you shouldn't need to look in your mirror before moving lane, because you've already looked in your mirror before moving lane?

Or do you have a different way of knowing whats going on around you?

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

So in essence, you shouldn't need to look in your mirror before moving lane, because you've already looked in your mirror before moving lane?

Yes. Pretty much as you said.
You should control your mirrors at all times when driving, so you should be aware what's around you.
If there is a car at distance behind you, approaching at speed, you should know that in a while it's going to be right behind you or overtaking, so you won't be surprised when it's near you in a moment.

What you shouldn't be doing is to be surprised by presence of any vehicle directly near you.
So if you want to change lane, look in the mirror, and see a car (which you haven't seen before), just right behind you in lane you want to get to, then it means you are not really aware of your surroundings.

It makes sense to me anyway.

Mycroft H

I agree somewhat with Cinio. 360 awareness at all times is something I've picked up from doing a few lessons from a Roadar instructor. Glancing in your mirrors every 15-20 seconds is something that I've gotten in the habit of doing nowadays.

I wouldn't agree that the "Mirror - Signal - Blindspot/Mirror - Move" is a formality; it's more of a double check, a just in case something has whizzed up your inside since you last checked - a motorbike tearing along the dual carriageway for example.

colm_mcm

When you're learning to drive, you won't be as intuitively aware of your surrounds as you'll be concentrating on gears, steering etc.

Its an easy way to remember when you're learning, I can't see the point in dissecting it and trying to disprove it tbh.

Its a bit like the "I before E except after C" rule. There are always those who will point to the exceptions.

CiniO

colm_mcm wrote: »

When you're learning to drive, you won't be as intuitively aware of your surrounds as you'll be concentrating on gears, steering etc.

That's for sure, but you should know what to aim for, and with time try to learn the skills.
Good driving is a skill that you generally should learn all your life. The more experience, the better you drive, assuming you follow correct rules and try to do it in the right way.

I.e. you as you said - you might not be fully aware of your surrounding on first week of your driving, but you should in 3rd year.

Its an easy way to remember when you're learning, I can't see the point in dissecting it and trying to disprove it tbh.

Its a bit like the "I before E except after C" rule. There are always those who will point to the exceptions.

No.
Mirror -signal - mirror - maneuver is good formula.
I just started a thread to see what was the understanding of it among people?

Hareton

Mirror signal mirror manoeuvre is how I was that and that you should signal early to show intent. However I believe that the inconsistency ( took me a while to spell) between drivers kinda throw that out the window.

I.e some drivers will signal to show intent and wait for a gap to move

Where as some will wait for a gap then signal and move so it's understandable that someone could get nervous when they see some one signal thinking they're going to move out across them.

I myself still get nervous when I'm overtaking on a motorway and one of the cars I'm overtaking stars indicating

So really check your mirror when you've decided you want to manoeuvre. Signal to show other drivers you intend to mavouvre check mirror again, check blind spot and perform mavouvre when safe to do so.

Greyfoot

Awareness comes with experience, as soon as you lose your fear of constant colliding, dangers you start to ease up. The mentioned formula helps to get used to it as a second nature. As Cinio said after a while if interested in driving(and this is important because most people who can`t be arsed or just never lose that fear of driving will never have a healthy interest)one will develop a 360 awareness, its like training.

I can most of the time tell you the 3 cars in front and back, approximately their colours and make and speed at any given time.

Putting the indicator asap is good practice, checking mirror is something you`ll never loose even if you know whats going around you.

Remember, especially on motorways: a 750+cc bike can appear out of nowhere anytime from any direction.