Getting a puncture repaired, plug or patch?

forestgray

Folks,

I was driving this morning when a friendly "man in a van" alerted me to my punctured rear tyre. I changed the tyre and brought it for repair.

The garage guy quickly plugged the hole while I was looking away and I asked him would he mind patching it instead as I don't like plugs.

He got kinda ratty which I can understand as I hadn't specifically requested a patch.
Was I unreasonable?

Do you guys generally insist on a patch over a plugged tyre?

ArnieSilvia

A puncture is a local weak spot and patch should be put on to strenghten the tyre structure.

I make my own judgment on the quality of local tyre places if I don't have to ask for new valve if fitting new tyres, patching punctured ones and balancing in all cases (some "specialists" don't balance rear wheels)

Saying that, even patching is not enough for fast driving you'd do in Germany so that's the reason why we are getting second hand german tyres.

I'd imagine that some German engineer inspecting car after accident would flip over if they saw plugs or tyres with different thread pattern (not mentioning the brand!) on same axle.

Source: I worked in tyre sector (sales) and truck tyre retreading (sales & manufacturing).

Riva10

Not unreasonable at all. A patch is much safer although more work for the guy in the garage. Good on ye for insisting

vandriver

I've had countless punctures done ,and have never been offered,or even heard of a patch!
As I have never had a problem with a plug,I wonder have you?

McP2011

I thought plugs were illegal nowadays?

biko

I don't think plugs are illegal in Ireland. But they should not be used anywhere close to the sidewall. Now you can get a combo pulg-patch too.

Stavros Murphy

I now go to a decent tyre repair place that give us great service and they don't use plugs, for anything, point blank won't. Everything gets a patch or new tyre, depending. Their insurance won't cover plugs..


If we're working in the UK and get a flat, you get a patch (and often a refusal to even do that if the tyres marginal/worn - it's a new tyre or good-luck to you). Patches appear to be the way to go. I liked the speed of plugs tbh, patches can be time-consuming yokes to fit, especially if you're in a hurry. But there you go..

Bpmull

I always get the tyre patched. It's a better fix than a plug IMO. When I go to my local tyre place and get it patched they always say I'm one of a very few who looks for patches. It's more work for them than just plugging it but a patch is my preference. Although I would always say at the start I want a patch not after they plugged it. I know the op probably assumed they would patch it but 90 % of places seem to just plug the tyre if you don't specify what you want.

nc19

Patches and only ever patches

If you plug your tyre with 6/7/8mm of tread by the time it wears to half the plug may well have popped out but will certainly have become loose and most likely started leaking

The main problem with plugs is what you cant see. In order to fit a plug the hole is invarably widened with a bradel which can snap morw of the reibforcing bands in the tyre weakening its structure also if you have driven on the tyre while underinflated or totally flat the tyre may be damaged internally. The tyre should be dismounted and examined correctly. Shoving a plug in from the outside will not allow this.

I have used plugs on my motorbike when needed but only to enable me to get to somewhere to fit a tyre.

You will find that its only a certain kind of tyre shop that fits plugs

dr.fuzzenstein

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

A puncture is a local weak spot and patch should be put on to strenghten the tyre structure.

I make my own judgment on the quality of local tyre places if I don't have to ask for new valve if fitting new tyres, patching punctured ones and balancing in all cases (some "specialists" don't balance rear wheels)

Saying that, even patching is not enough for fast driving you'd do in Germany so that's the reason why we are getting second hand german tyres.

I'd imagine that some German engineer inspecting car after accident would flip over if they saw plugs or tyres with different thread pattern (not mentioning the brand!) on same axle.

Source: I worked in tyre sector (sales) and truck tyre retreading (sales & manufacturing).

That used to be a HUGE bugbear of mine!
I have had massive arguments with tyre places after they point blank refused to balance my rear wheels, citing the argument "Ah shure, she'll be grand now, balancing is only so your steering wheel doesn't shake". I'm sure they do a roaring trade in rear wheel suspension components (I have NO idea why that always goes!)
Some even said "Of course we always balance rear wheels" and I drove off in an ass shaker. And straight back.
10-15 years ago Ireland was a disaster for tires, 4 odd wheels, different sizes even, never balanced the rears, sh*tty remoulds on a lot of cars, garages had equipment that was pre-war (the first one that is), lights where levelled with a piece of chalk and a piece of chipboard, it was a nightmare.
I would request both tires on an axle to be changed (But the other one still has a month left on it!), new valves (ah sure, the old ones are grand), rear tires balanced (Ah sure you don't need that) and when I said 4 wheel alignment (we only do the tracking on the front, now) I might as well have said "My name is Zog, I am from Mars, take me to your leader"
Now a lot of garages have all the equipment, but monkeys to operate it. If you have a garage and you know they guy who knows how to operate the equipment, only go there and demand only that guy gets to work on your car, if he's off, wait till he's back.

On topic:
Better patches. If you plug it and there's internal damage, you won't know till it goes bang.

CiniO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That used to be a HUGE bugbear of mine!
I have had massive arguments with tyre places after they point blank refused to balance my rear wheels, citing the argument "Ah shure, she'll be grand now, balancing is only so your steering wheel doesn't shake". I'm sure they do a roaring trade in rear wheel suspension components (I have NO idea why that always goes!)
Some even said "Of course we always balance rear wheels" and I drove off in an ass shaker. And straight back.
10-15 years ago Ireland was a disaster for tires, 4 odd wheels, different sizes even, never balanced the rears, sh*tty remoulds on a lot of cars, garages had equipment that was pre-war (the first one that is), lights where levelled with a piece of chalk and a piece of chipboard, it was a nightmare.
I would request both tires on an axle to be changed (But the other one still has a month left on it!), new valves (ah sure, the old ones are grand), rear tires balanced (Ah sure you don't need that) and when I said 4 wheel alignment (we only do the tracking on the front, now) I might as well have said "My name is Zog, I am from Mars, take me to your leader"
Now a lot of garages have all the equipment, but monkeys to operate it. If you have a garage and you know they guy who knows how to operate the equipment, only go there and demand only that guy gets to work on your car, if he's off, wait till he's back.

On topic:
Better patches. If you plug it and there's internal damage, you won't know till it goes bang.

Spot on. Situation got much better now. But I remember even 5 years ago most tyre places not even thinking about balancing rear tyres.
I remember when I went to garage with puncture (first time in Ireland), and garag man said his "puncture fixing equipment" was broken but he offered to sell me new tyre. My tyres were 155/65. He said he had only 155/70 but difference was minimal and I wouldn't feel the difference. I couldn't believe what I just heard, but when I realized he was serious I literally started laughing at him.
This was 2007 and I think he went bankrupt a year later.
But still finding a garage doing tyre work properly is quite a challenge.

CiniO

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

Saying that, even patching is not enough for fast driving you'd do in Germany so that's the reason why we are getting second hand german tyres.

I had my tyre patched last year, but I must admit it was done properly.
Drove through Germany at high speeds (over 200km/h) and all good.

dr.fuzzenstein

CiniO wrote: »

I had my tyre patched last year, but I must admit it was done properly.
Drove through Germany at high speeds (over 200km/h) and all good.

Somebody should work out how much the patch weighs with centrifugal force at 220 km/h!

The Backwards Man

I've never patch, always a plug, never had a problem, even on tyres that had hardly had the stickers off. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Voodoomelon

I HATE going anywhere in this country get anything tyre-related done. It's a bloody nightmare.

Greyfoot

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Maybe I'm just lucky.

No, you`re the Bacwards Man.

nc19

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I HATE going anywhere in this country get anything tyre-related done. It's a bloody nightmare.

Expand please

Voodoomelon

In my last four tyre visits:

1. A pry mark on one of my newly refurbed alloys
2. I asked for two valves to be replaced and he looked at me like I had two heads
3. Got a tyre installed on a spare that would be going back on the car itself the following day, he rolls it back out to me and I asked him if he balanced it "oh you wanted it balanced as well?
4. Muppets in Dundalk who deem it acceptable to drive your car at 113kph in a 60kph zone to "test the tracking", whilst watching TV on the way back.

All different places ^^.

And several other madenning stories from friends.

dr.fuzzenstein

nc19 wrote: »

Expand please

Plus complete inability to do 4 wheel alignment properly, only ever replacing one tire at a time so you end up with 4 odd tires, refusal to balance the rear wheels, never changing valves, hammering weights into alloy wheels that should have stick on ones, I think you've never been to a tire place in Ireland, or you are one of the lucky few who knows a good place.
Also, no need to expand, it's all there in the thread, but here is a short synopsis anyway.

Want more?
Buckled alloy? She'll be grand, just shtick 'em on the back, that'll magically make them better. Of course not balanced.

visual

When you find a tyre shop that does it right its worth traveling to.

There is cowboys near me
Won't balance the back wheels
When fixing a puncture they use a chalk mark so tyre is suppose to go on the same way and not need balacing. If you pull them up on it they will balance but want more money.
Worse still they are dearer than most and too lazy to put tyre in boot.

A little drive away the guys are cheaper but more importantly do it right patch punctures pull off all old weights and balance wheels with new weights fitted not only that but the weights are fitted to side of wheel that is closest to body so not visable New valves with caps.
All while you wait.

nc19

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In my last four tyre visits:

1. A pry mark on one of my newly refurbed alloys
2. I asked for two valves to be replaced and he looked at me like I had two heads
3. Got a tyre installed on a spare that would be going back on the car itself the following day, he rolls it back out to me and I asked him if he balanced it "oh you wanted it balanced as well?
4. Muppets in Dundalk who deem it acceptable to drive your car at 113kph in a 60kph zone to "test the tracking", whilst watching TV on the way back.

All different places ^^.

And several other madenning stories from friends.

Might i suggest you may be going to the wrong places

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In my last four tyre visits:

1. A pry mark on one of my newly refurbed alloys
2. I asked for two valves to be replaced and he looked at me like I had two heads
3. Got a tyre installed on a spare that would be going back on the car itself the following day, he rolls it back out to me and I asked him if he balanced it "oh you wanted it balanced as well?
4. Muppets in Dundalk who deem it acceptable to drive your car at 113kph in a 60kph zone to "test the tracking", whilst watching TV on the way back.

All different places ^^.

And several other madenning stories from friends.

Heh..
I'd add an inablity to find a place that is willing to fit tyres, once you bring them, at reasonable price.
First time I went around with set of tyres that I wanted to be fitted to my car (and balanced) I heard the quotes of between €60 - €100. And this surely wouldn't include new valves or any other fancy stuff.
It's only 30 minutes work of one worker.

And what makes it more funny, most garages were happy to fix puncture for €10. And fixing puncture includes taking wheel off, taking tyre off the rim, patching, putting tyre back into the rim, balancing and fitting to the car. More work involved then with fitting new tyre, but much cheaper. Very interesting.

nc19

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Plus complete inability to do 4 wheel alignment properly, only ever replacing one tire at a time so you end up with 4 odd tires, refusal to balance the rear wheels, never changing valves, hammering weights into alloy wheels that should have stick on ones, I think you've never been to a tire place in Ireland, or you are one of the lucky few who knows a good place.
Also, no need to expand, it's all there in the thread, but here is a short synopsis anyway.

Want more?
Buckled alloy? She'll be grand, just shtick 'em on the back, that'll magically make them better. Of course not balanced.

We take this one thing at a time

4 wheel alignment is fool proof. The only way its ever wrong in my exp is if there is somethng wrong with the car - doesnt matter if "the nct only passed it" (we get that a lot even though there is play in the rack/rods or the bush is fecked)

If the customer wants 1 tyre, guess what? We fit one tyre! If the customer needs more tyres we tell them which is usually met with "how much?" or " only got a brand new 2nd hand tyre last week!)

If an alloy has a lip on the rim then it may well get a hammer on weight. We are not talking about a sledgehammer here (i NEVER hammer a weight on the outside of an alloy)

We ALWAYS replace valves


So let me reiterate, might I suggest you may be going to the wrong place?

nc19

CiniO wrote: »

Heh..
I'd add an inablity to find a place that is willing to fit tyres, once you bring them, at reasonable price.
First time I went around with set of tyres that I wanted to be fitted to my car (and balanced) I heard the quotes of between €60 - €100. And this surely wouldn't include new valves or any other fancy stuff.
It's only 30 minutes work of one worker.

And what makes it more funny, most garages were happy to fix puncture for €10. And fixing puncture includes taking wheel off, taking tyre off the rim, patching, putting tyre back into the rim, balancing and fitting to the car. More work involved then with fitting set of tyres, but much cheaper. Very interesting.

I take it you mean the tyres would be fit to rims off the car?
If you mean it takes 30 min to fit 4 tyres to wheels currently on the car then im not so sure

Oh. And the 60-100 quotes are to make you think twice about buying your own tyres

CiniO

nc19 wrote: »

I take it you mean the tyres would be fit to rims off the car?
If you mean it takes 30 min to fit 4 tyres to wheels currently on the car then im not so sure

Unless any of nuts or screws are seized, that's the usual time it used to take, wherever I was doing it.

dr.fuzzenstein

nc19 wrote: »

We take this one thing at a time

4 wheel alignment is fool proof. The only way its ever wrong in my exp is if there is somethng wrong with the car - doesnt matter if "the nct only passed it" (we get that a lot even though there is play in the rack/rods or the bush is fecked)

If the customer wants 1 tyre, guess what? We fit one tyre! If the customer needs more tyres we tell them which is usually met with "how much?" or " only got a brand new 2nd hand tyre last week!)

If an alloy has a lip on the rim then it may well get a hammer on weight. We are not talking about a sledgehammer here (i NEVER hammer a weight on the outside of an alloy)

We ALWAYS replace valves


So let me reiterate, might I suggest you may be going to the wrong place?

Ah, you're in the trade, sorry if we hurt your feelings, but 20 years of bad experiences leave a sour taste.
And 4 wheel alignment is fool proof? Yeah, but it's not idiot proof, judging by some of the monkeys that work the machines.

So, please enlighten us to your fabulous temple of a garage where everything is perfect.

CiniO

nc19 wrote: »

Oh. And the 60-100 quotes are to make you think twice about buying your own tyres

Heh I know that now.
Didn't know it then (in 2009) when I shopped around for best price, and struggled to get anything below 60 quid.

In Poland - where I'm originally from - most people use two sets of tyres - winter and summer.
So garage swapping tyres between winter and summer is absolutely normal thing, and such service used to cost about 10 quid for swapping 4 tyres (that included balancing).
Knowing that prices of all services are higher here in Ireland, I reasonably expected about 30-40 quid, especially as mentioned before fixing a puncture which involves more work cost about 10 quid per corner, so how could fitting new tyres be more expensive?

But after shopping around I discovered it was.
It was to punish a customer for buying tyres elsewhere. I couldn't set up in my head for a while, but I had to accept it eventually.

Fact that my tyres I wanted to fit was set of winter tyres, which were completely unavailable through any tyre shop across Ireland at that time, didn't matter for them. You bring own tyres - we charge you mad price so you learn for the future not to do it again. That's what I heard.

Few times again when I used to swap between summer and winter I had to pay this crazy prices.

Now I finally have 2 sets of rims, so I can swap winter and summer wheels on my own.
I do most of my tyre shopping in Poland as I drive there once a year, so luckily I don't have to deal with those mad tyre shops here too much.

nc19

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ah, you're in the trade, sorry if we hurt your feelings, but 20 years of bad experiences leave a sour taste.
And 4 wheel alignment is fool proof? Yeah, but it's not idiot proof, judging by some of the monkeys that work the machines.

So, please enlighten us to your fabulous temple of a garage where everything is perfect.

I am a closet sociopath, I have no feelings......

its been my exp that the general irish motorist gauges the health of their car by what the NCT says every 2 yrs and if you try to tell them different then you're just trying to rob them unless ofcourse you tell them something they want to hear(something that saves them money)

if there is ANY play in the steering/suspension i will not track a car not because im trying to sell something(i dont care if you fit the parts needed yourself) its because if i track it in that cond it will NOT be right and you will be back to me the next week and ill have to do it for free.

The same goes for tyre cond including having those super duper brand new 2nd hand winter tyres with less than 4mm of tread on them that have been on a left hand drive car for the last 3 winters and you wonder why the car pulls ever after tracking was done........pfft!

nc19

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Ah, you're in the trade, sorry if we hurt your feelings, but 20 years of bad experiences leave a sour taste.
And 4 wheel alignment is fool proof? Yeah, but it's not idiot proof, judging by some of the monkeys that work the machines.

So, please enlighten us to your fabulous temple of a garage where everything is perfect.

I am a closet sociopath, I have no feelings......

its been my exp that the general irish motorist gauges the health of their car by what the NCT says every 2 yrs and if you try to tell them different then you're just trying to rob them unless ofcourse you tell them something they want to hear(something that saves them money)

if there is ANY play in the steering/suspension i will not track a car not because im trying to sell something(i dont care if you fit the parts needed yourself) its because if i track it in that cond it will NOT be right and you will be back to me the next week and ill have to do it for free.

The same goes for tyre cond including having those super duper brand new 2nd hand winter tyres with less than 4mm of tread on them that have been on a left hand drive car for the last 3 winters and you wonder why the car pulls ever after tracking was done........pfft!

dr.fuzzenstein

nc19 wrote: »

I am a closet sociopath, I have no feelings......

its been my exp that the general irish motorist gauges the health of their car by what the NCT says every 2 yrs and if you try to tell them different then you're just trying to rob them unless ofcourse you tell them something they want to hear(something that saves them money)

if there is ANY play in the steering/suspension i will not track a car not because im trying to sell something(i dont care if you fit the parts needed yourself) its because if i track it in that cond it will NOT be right and you will be back to me the next week and ill have to do it for free.

The same goes for tyre cond including having those super duper brand new 2nd hand winter tyres with less than 4mm of tread on them that have been on a left hand drive car for the last 3 winters and you wonder why the car pulls ever after tracking was done........pfft!

I like you already!
This thread is simply borne out of years of suffering by many posters trying to find a decent tire place.
Once you find one, never let it go.
Of course things have changed and many horror stories here are from the bad old days. Though a lot of people who couldn't be trusted to open a can of beans run garages and tire shops (some even run the country, so it happens everywhere).
We're not saying they're all bad.