US/EU/Ukranian propoganda coming out of Dublin today...

renegademaster

so some of us have been watching the showcase of the "Ukranian" representation on the streets of civilly obedient Dublin today.

are people really not that bothered about how or why this is taking place on Irish soil today?

are people not worried about our governments facilitation and involvement in the aftermath of this extreemly violent coup that has ousted an elected president that had just signed a deal with the crazy far right lunatic opposition and how it's being reported/spun to the world from the emerald isle.

I get that people want to believe that our elected leaders are doing the right thing but what if (it's not a huge if anymore) they're not doing the right thing and instead protecting their interests like they've always done. I cannot understand why people don't see how dangerous a stance this could possibly be. it's not like merkel or the likes will be the ones feeling the pressure and pain if $hit goes down.

it sure looks right now like the west are intent to stick it to Russia while up to their necks in dodgy decisions themselves all to forward to american lead agendas.

double standards doesn't even come close to describing what's happening right now.

are we intent on collectively waiting until we hear the sound of jackboots outside our door before we start to worry? this would be an understandable situation to be in, i mean lets face it how many would even entertain the thought that things could get that bad eventually. I don't see what the harm is in weighing up all scenarios, no matter how horrible they could be.

maybe if we had a half hour of the type of pressure america and it's partners put on other countries that aren't as receptive as our own to the NWO agendas it would help people see the bigger picture.

Donkey Oaty

renegademaster wrote: »

the NWO agendas

Took a while, but we got there in the end.

stirwell

renegademaster wrote: »

so some of us have been watching the showcase of the "Ukranian" representation on the streets of civilly obedient Dublin today.

are people really not that bothered about how or why this is taking place on Irish soil today?

are people not worried about our governments facilitation and involvement in the aftermath of this extreemly violent coup that has ousted an elected president that had just signed a deal with the crazy far right lunatic opposition and how it's being reported/spun to the world from the emerald isle.

I get that people want to believe that our elected leaders are doing the right thing but what if (it's not a huge if anymore) they're not doing the right thing and instead protecting their interests like they've always done. I cannot understand why people don't see how dangerous a stance this could possibly be. it's not like merkel or the likes will be the ones feeling the pressure and pain if $hit goes down.

it sure looks right now like the west are intent to stick it to Russia while up to their necks in dodgy decisions themselves all to forward to american lead agendas.

double standards doesn't even come close to describing what's happening right now.

are we intent on collectively waiting until we hear the sound of jackboots outside our door before we start to worry? this would be an understandable situation to be in, i mean lets face it how many would even entertain the thought that things could get that bad eventually. I don't see what the harm is in weighing up all scenarios, no matter how horrible they could be.

maybe if we had a half hour of the type of pressure america and it's partners put on other countries that aren't as receptive as our own to the NWO agendas it would help people see the bigger picture.

YYYAAAWWWWNNNN.

For Forks Sake

renegademaster wrote: »

so some of us have been watching the showcase of the "Ukranian" representation on the streets of civilly obedient Dublin today.

are people really not that bothered about how or why this is taking place on Irish soil today?

are people not worried about our governments facilitation and involvement in the aftermath of this extreemly violent coup that has ousted an elected president that had just signed a deal with the crazy far right lunatic opposition and how it's being reported/spun to the world from the emerald isle.

I get that people want to believe that our elected leaders are doing the right thing but what if (it's not a huge if anymore) they're not doing the right thing and instead protecting their interests like they've always done. I cannot understand why people don't see how dangerous a stance this could possibly be. it's not like merkel or the likes will be the ones feeling the pressure and pain if $hit goes down.

it sure looks right now like the west are intent to stick it to Russia while up to their necks in dodgy decisions themselves all to forward to american lead agendas.

double standards doesn't even come close to describing what's happening right now.

are we intent on collectively waiting until we hear the sound of jackboots outside our door before we start to worry? this would be an understandable situation to be in, i mean lets face it how many would even entertain the thought that things could get that bad eventually. I don't see what the harm is in weighing up all scenarios, no matter how horrible they could be.

maybe if we had a half hour of the type of pressure america and it's partners put on other countries that aren't as receptive as our own to the NWO agendas it would help people see the bigger picture.

Jim Corr, ladies and gentlemen....

renegademaster

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Took a while, but we got there in the end.

why can't we mention new world order agendas??

Zillah

renegademaster wrote: »

I am detached from reality and should find something better to do with my life.

I agree OP.

Donkey Oaty

renegademaster wrote: »

why can't we mention new world order agendas??

Mention away.

Frank Lee Midere

I think the Ukrainians have to worry about the Jackboots and far right pro fascist movements (Putinism being close to clerical fascism).

The most reactionary guy I follow on twitter - a right wing Catholic - is very pro Russian. A strange alliance. Old school leftists with their russophillia and the far right.

mike65

Isn't there a constipation theory forum for this sort of garbage?

magick

Its all a conspiracy I tellz you!

The Backwards Man

That's it!! I'm taking to the streets!!



I'm watching The Streets Of San Francisco on telly. Over forty years old and never gets old.

Jonny7

renegademaster wrote: »

blah

For someone who consistently ****ing advocates a revolution against our "corrupt" government and Western governments in general, you sure contradict yourself a lot

Artful_Badger

Hang on whats going on now ?

Guy:Incognito

This conference was organised long before the current situation in Ukraine boiled over was it not?

bumper234

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Took a while, but we got there in the end.

I got as far as

until we hear the sound of jackboots

renegademaster

Jonny7 wrote: »

For someone who consistently ****ing advocates a revolution against our "corrupt" government and Western governments in general you sure contradict yourself a lot

i advocate a true revolution coming from the people, not a violent coup encouraged and enabled by america and it's partners

dxhound2005

renegademaster wrote: »

i advocate a true revolution coming from the people, not a violent coup encouraged and enabled by america and it's partners

Your oft expressed zeal for street protest is admirable but maybe you should consider the law of unforseen consequences. The Ukrainians are probably going to lose part of their territory because they didn't think through what would happen when they took to the streets of Kiev.

If you get your Socialist Republic by street demonstration, some of our population in Monaghan and Donegal could decide that it is a dangerous place and look to the neighbouring country to give them protection. What would your politburo do in that scenario?

Muise...

renegademaster wrote: »

i advocate a true revolution coming from the people, not a violent coup encouraged and enabled by america and it's partners

That's exactly what the crowd in Maidan thought they were at... but sure you know better with your distant whataboutery.

Donkey Oaty

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What would your politburo do in that scenario?

They'll be too busy executing people who ask troublesome questions like that to care.

renegademaster

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

This conference was organised long before the current situation in Ukraine boiled over was it not?

so you think these people wake up one morning, decide to organise a coup and it begins the next day. some planning would have to go into it and lets face it it's not the first time they've done it so would be experts at planning, implementation, dealing with variables as they happen and succesfully delivering of a perfectly acceptable/plausible pr campaign before during and after it.

the egyptian "revolution" began with CIA involvement up to a year and a half before the "arab sping" came

renegademaster

bumper234 wrote: »

I got as far as

so ya read most of the post then

I am pie

Jackboots = Not enough in here, I need to whip up the hysteria again.

Jackboots at our doorsteps = The above X 5.

bumper234

renegademaster wrote: »

so ya read most of the post then

Between sniggers of derision? Yes.....yes i did.

Frank Lee Midere

renegademaster wrote: »

i advocate a true revolution coming from the people, not a violent coup encouraged and enabled by america and it's partners

So the Ukrainians are not people now?

It wasn't a coup. The parliament voted a prime minister out of office (after he fled) and that's how parliamentary democracies work.

In Crimea however the pro Russian guy with 4% of the vote is now running things. Because of actual real jackboots on the actual real ground. As opposed to your fantasys.

Muise...

I am pie wrote: »

Jackboots = Not enough in here, I need to whip up the hysteria again.

Jackboots at our doorsteps = The above X 5.

Yes, because only bad evil armies wear jackboots - the OP's revolutionary force will march in ballet slippers and diving flippers.

cletus van damme

i'm with the OP on this.

hypocrisy here .

when ireland voted in FG / Labour and condemned FF to the scrap heap many European commentators and EU officals lauded the way ireland went about their business - properly via the ballot etc..

Now the same rabble are cheering when an offically elected felllow is ousted from office by a mob . we have no indication on how many supported this. Just like in Egypt when they disposed morsi who was elected and yet again has the support of the US/NATO cos it suits their agenda

And people moan that Putin says "f this for a game of soliders" when it happens on his doorstep. Plus no way was he (or should he) lose his warm water military base.

Make no mistake this is part of a broader gamesmanship between Nato (Us really) and russia. Gay rights, Pussy Riot , Ukraine , Syria is all a smoke screen for the real battle of dominance.

I for one wish we had a leader like putin.

renegademaster

Muise... wrote: »

That's exactly what the crowd in Maidan thought they were at... but sure you know better with your distant whataboutery.

you are correct and their problem was that not enough Ukranians faught against the far right nationalists that decided they were going to take over.

if they had they might as well still have their elected presidents and the deal he had just struck would be being implemented.

again for lack of action from the level headed and sane section of the general public the crazies win out.

i see people justifing not protesting here cos lefty groups or eirigi take them over but when i go to protests i only see small amounts of these devients around and nowhere near enough to take over if the public had of got out on the streets in numbers.

catallus

Here's a very short and incisive opinion piece from the NYT. After I read it it occurred to me that it really doesn't matter much of a fcuk what European feelings are about the thing, these guys all have their own agenda and the countries looking in don't have much input into what will happen, bar launching full scale war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?src=me

renegademaster

Muise... wrote: »

Yes, because only bad evil armies wear jackboots - the OP's revolutionary force will march in ballet slippers and diving flippers.

i'd take a revolutionary force peacefully marching in ballet slippers and diving flippers over people burying their heads in the sand and hoping everything is going to work out dandy.

Frank Lee Midere

cletus van damme wrote: »

i'm with the OP on this.

hypocrisy here .

when ireland voted in FG / Labour and condemned FF to the scrap heap many European commentators and EU officals lauded the way ireland went about their business - properly via the ballot etc..

Now the same rabble are cheering when an offically elected felllow is ousted from office by a mob . we have no indication on how many supported this. Just like in Egypt when they disposed morsi who was elected and yet again has the support of the US/NATO cos it suits their agenda

And people moan that Putin says "f this for a game of soliders" when it happens on his doorstep. Plus no way was he (or should) he lose his warm water military base.

Make no mistake this is part of a broader gamesmanship between Nato (Us really) and russia. Gay rights, Pussy Riot , Ukraine , Syria is all a smoke screen for the real battle of dominance.

I for one wish we had a leader like putin.

You probably don't wish the UK had a leader like Putin because if they did they would still be in Cobh. And the other treaty ports.

You pro-imperialists should actually get the story correct. Your guy fled and was voted out of office.

dxhound2005

cletus van damme wrote: »

i'm with the OP on this.

hypocrisy here .

when ireland voted in FG / Labour and condemned FF to the scrap heap many European commentators and EU officals lauded the way ireland went about their business - properly via the ballot etc..

Now the same rabble are cheering when an offically elected felllow is ousted from office by a mob . we have no indication on how many supported this. Just like in Egypt when they disposed morsi who was elected and yet again has the support of the US/NATO cos it suits their agenda

And people moan that Putin says "f this for a game of soliders" when it happens on his doorstep. Plus no way was he (or should) he lose his warm water military base.

Make no mistake this is part of a broader gamesmanship between Nato (Us really) and russia. Gay rights, Pussy Riot , Ukraine , Syria is all a smoke screen for the real battle of dominance.

I for one wish we had a leader like putin.

I don't remember anyone praising us for having an election. We were due to have one anyway and it was a bit early because the previous governing coalition fell apart. Do you know a more laudable way to decide who governs apart from the election process? Something which would give you your Irish Putin.

cletus van damme

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

You probably don't wish the UK had a leader like Putin because if they did they would still be in Cobh. And the other treaty ports.

You pro-imperialists should actually get the story correct. Your guy fled and was voted out of office.

yes of course he did.
he was hardly going to stay about for a show trial now was he. :rolleyes:

Frank Lee Midere

renegademaster wrote: »

i'd take a revolutionary force peacefully marching in ballet slippers and diving flippers over people burying their heads in the sand and hoping everything is going to work out dandy.

Oh you'd take a fascist dictatorship invading Sovereign countries over anything else.

Putin with his corporatism, clerical links, attacks on journalists, jailing of the opposition, nationalist victim rhetoric, increased targeting of minorities and homosexuals, and invasions of the Sudentanland because of the mistreatment of Germans* is clearly modern fascisms best exemplar.


* sorry Russians and Crimea.

Frank Lee Midere

cletus van damme wrote: »

yes of course he did.
he was hardly going to stay about for a show trial now was he. :rolleyes:

What imaginary show trial are you taking about? The day before he joined a national party of unity, after he fled, the legally elected parliament voted in a successor, from within that unified party; that's how parliamentary democracies work.

There was no coup. Except in Crimea.

renegademaster

catallus wrote: »

Here's a very short and incisive opinion piece from the NYT. After I read it it occurred to me that it really doesn't matter much of a fcuk what European feelings are about the thing, these guys all have their own agenda and the countries looking in don't have much input into what will happen, bar launching full scale war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?src=me

and if the politicans stirring this all up are simpletons what does that make the lot of us that are lazily watching this on our telly, online, on our phones, in the newspapers, discussing it amongst ourselves and doing damn all to try stop it.

the majority of the 7,000,000,000+ of us must appear to be deaf dumb and blind idiots to those at the top.

Toby Take a Bow

I think the situation in Ukraine is too complicated to be split down a US&EU v Russia angle. The protesters in Kiev had a lot of genuine grievances and I would be surprised if they were truly represented by the far-right lunatics. On the other hand, the people in the predominantly Russian-speaking parts have genuine concerns about somebody they elected being booted out (legitimately or not). The bigger players - which of course had a decisive hand in how these things played out - are always going to look after their own interests. If you are going to criticise the US for their actions in, oh, half the countries in the world, then you should equally criticise Russia when they do the same. Russia aren't in Crimea in order to protect the Russian speaking people. They are there to assert dominance over a strategically placed country, much like America in Iraq.

catallus

renegademaster wrote: »

and if the politicans stirring this all up are simpletons what does that make the lot of us that are lazily watching this on our telly, online, on our phones, in the newspapers, discussing it amongst ourselves and doing damn all to try stop it.

the majority of the 7,000,000,000+ of us must appear to be deaf dumb and blind idiots to those at the top.

Well that's a good point.

The Pavlovian response to all these "soft revolutions" that have been going on over the past 10 years has been for everyone to clap like trained seals, even when the people overseeing the revolution are actual real-life living and breathing nazis!

cletus van damme

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

What imaginary show trial are you taking about? The day before he joined a national party of unity, after he fled, the legally elected parliament voted in a successor, from within that unified party; that's how parliamentary democracies work.

There was no coup. Except in Crimea.

eh ...once he lost power the new folk in power issued arrest warrants and charges

http://www.euronews.com/2014/02/24/police-hunt-for-yanukovych/

so he wasn't going to hang about , I wouldnt

coolemon

This coup certainly stinks to high heaven.

It appears someone in the opposition 'hired' the snipers to shoot at civilians in order to justify the overthrow of the government and to stir up chaos.

An international investigation should be launched into crimes against humanity. The new PM or president could have been behind it.

See leaked phone call here:

humanji

MOD: There's already a thread on the Ukraine in After Hours, so there's no need for another. And everything else mentioned on this thread is better suited to either politics or the conspiracy theory forum.