Accidents roundabout

mano bano

I have seen accidents like this and wonder who'd be at fault id say car B here goes on approach to roundabout there's two lanes left marked R118 and right lane L3027 and right arrow car A is in left lane car B right. The R118 is the 2nd exit off roundabout car A sets off te go passes 1st exit comes up to 2nd exit and car B who was in the right hand cuts across A and the two cars hit each other. Car A is in the lane while car B is on hatch makings. Car A damage is front right and car B damage is left corner of bumper.

corktina

i'd say B too if I understood properly.

slimjimmc

Car B was in the wrong lane and has ignored the road marking which instructed him to take L3027. Even without such road markings car B is at fault for changing lane (while aiming for the exit) without ensuring it was safe to do so. Depending on the circumstances, car A might share some responsibility if he could reasonably have avoided a collision (e.g by braking) but failed to do do.

mano bano

slimjimmc wrote: »

Car B was in the wrong lane and has ignored the road marking which instructed him to take L3027. Even without such road markings car B is at fault for changing lane (while aiming for the exit) without ensuring it was safe to do so. Depending on the circumstances, car A might share some responsibility if he could reasonably have avoided a collision (e.g by braking) but failed to do do.

from what I seen car A was the only car to brake before the collision. And I thought you can only change lane when its safe to do so and yield to traffic already in lane.

Xennon

I see this every morning on the way to work, two lane roundabout, with a two lane exit, no designations, yet people take the inside lane to go straight on (the racing line), along with those in the outside lane. Not realizing that the car in the outside lane is entitled to continue on around the roundabout, as in they dont HAVE to take the exit. What you end up with is the car in the inside lane jumping lanes to take the exit and cutting the car in the outside lane off.

I've always believed that you have to be in the outside lane to take an exit, and you should move into that position safely before the exit.

Who's at fault if you crash in this situation, tbh theres bugger all info from the rule book on it, and whats there can be interpreted in many ways. And dont get me started on lane designations printed on the lanes, which you cant see if the road is busy.

corktina

in your world the inside lane approaching the roundabout becomes the outside lane on the roundabout I take it.

Tigger

Left and right or I don't understand

dr.fuzzenstein

/pops head round door to have a look.
No.

mano bano

My understand from the rules of the road is 1. changing lanes you must give way to traffic already in lane 2. Road markings you must obey 3. Hatched markings you must not enter area they cover. to me car B broke three rules of the road which you can get penalty points for and car A didn't brake any of the rules of the road.

cml387

This why Americans don't have roundabouts, they would all have shot each other years ago.

Xennon

in your world the inside lane approaching the roundabout becomes the outside lane on the roundabout I take it.

In my world (its shiny) when you see a roundabout with lanes then you treat it as if you were on a road, if you want to take an exit, then you have to be in the left most lane and you have to give way to traffic on that lane, you dont just jump across a lane and take the exit regardless of the traffic on it.

corktina

that simply isn't true. If there are two lanes on entry and two on exit straight on you can continue the same in the same lane throught he roundabout unless the signs and markings say otherwise.

slimjimmc

mano bano wrote: »

from what I seen car A was the only car to brake before the collision. And I thought you can only change lane when its safe to do so and yield to traffic already in lane.

Isn't that what I said, legally you can't change lane if its not clear.

However despite what the other driver did if car A could have reasonably avoided a collision and didn't then car A contributed to the situation. For example if car B was ahead and indicating left then perhaps car A should have anticipated car B intended to cut across and perhaps car A should have braked earlier to avoid a collision. Don't forget car B was hit at the rear bumper which means car A was somewhat behind. Also what were the relative speeds, where both cars moving at the same speed, was one car moving faster than the other?

biko

I'd pay for a bit of graphical illustrations in this thread

mano bano

From what I could tell car B speeded up to over take car A when it seen the exit is not a two lane exit. The roundabout has two lanes onto it but the 1st three exits are single lane I will try attached a picture of roundabout when on laptop

corktina

Don't bother, we saw it all before and we know where it's going....

mano bano

here is roundabout

djimi

You cant change lanes without ensuring that it is safe do to so. If you change lanes and cause an accident in the process then you are at fault; this applies to a roundabout in the same way as it applies to a normal road.

ironclaw

mano bano wrote: »

here is roundabout

That roundabout has road markings and signage on all approaches (Not shown in Google Street view) There is no ambiguity in my mind.

felimd

9 times out of 10, a judge will rule 50/50 with an accident on a roundabout. I know from experience. Same situation as the OP except the second exit has two lanes coming off the roundabout. I was car B trying to exit to the right hand lane, leaving the left hand lane for car A, car A tried to keep going to exit 3 and cut across me, hitting the side of my car. Judge wouldn't even listen to the circumstances, saying the law on roundabouts is a grey area. 50/50.

slimjimmc

mano bano wrote: »

here is roundabout

Judging by the width of the R118 exit it looks like two buses go through side-by-side, never mind 2 cars. The tarmac surface is the same width as the 2 lanes on the other side of the island. You can see this in the Streetview image which shows the exit before chevrons were painted on.

Imo car A should have been able to avoid a collision had he been keeping to the left of the exit. That doesn't excuse car B in the least, but every driver has a duty to watch out for bad driving.

mano bano

slimjimmc wrote: »

Judging by the width of the R118 exit it looks like two buses go through side-by-side, never mind 2 cars. The tarmac surface is the same width as the 2 lanes on the other side of the island. You can see this in the Streetview image which shows the exit before chevrons were painted on.

Imo car A should have been able to avoid a collision had he been keeping to the left of the exit. That doesn't excuse car B in the least, but every driver has a duty to watch out for bad driving.

as I said from what I seen car A braked and if it didn't the accident would have being worse so imo car A was watching out and car B wasn't not following road makings and signs. I have being in car B's place with unfamiliar roundabouts and have had to around again before taking exit but have also just taking exit if it was safe to do so.

Patrickheg

Roundabout arguments on the motors section are never friendly and go on a very long time. I've never actually seen one come to a successful conclusion as both side dig their heels in

Cessna_Pilot

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

gutteruu

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Education/Road-safety-tips/Using-roundabouts/

Problem with that is the rules changed about 2004 ish but they never told anyone. They brought in the new "12 O'Clock" rule. So its left lane for all exits up to 12 O'Clock unless indicated otherwise. Most people were thought the old way and its not always possible to see all exits, so roundabouts are a free for all now where people can be held responsible even if they are not at fault.

Patrickheg

gutteruu wrote: »

Problem with that is the rules changed about 2004 ish but they never told anyone. They brought in the new "12 O'Clock" rule. So its left lane for all exits up to 12 O'Clock unless indicated otherwise. Most people were thought the old way and its not always possible to see all exits, so roundabouts are a free for all now where people can be held responsible even if they are not at fault.

No roundabout is the same as another so it can be hard(maybe the wrong word) to apply the 12oc rules and expect everyone to know and obey them.

Simple cheap solution is to paint arrows on the lanes, ie left only / left and straight / straight and right etc

mano bano

Patrickheg wrote: »

No roundabout is the same as another so it can be hard(maybe the wrong word) to apply the 12oc rules and expect everyone to know and obey them.

Simple cheap solution is to paint arrows on the lanes, ie left only / left and straight / straight and right etc

the roundabout in question has road markings with arrows

ironclaw

Patrickheg wrote: »

No roundabout is the same as another so it can be hard(maybe the wrong word) to apply the 12oc rules and expect everyone to know and obey them.

I know a lot of people were thought both methods, I for one was taught to count exits plus use a decent amount of common sense. But I've yet to see any 'rules' that state the '12 O'Clock' procedure is the official line from RSA. The video above would fly in the face of any change in 2004 as that video was made far more recently.

Not arguing at all as it has its merits but it appears to be a simpleton procedure that some driving instructors are teaching as opposed to an official RSA / RTA guideline.

But yes, things would be far simpler if all roundabouts had decent maintained road markings, with a set at least 50m on the approach. How often do you find yourself at an unfamiliar roundabout and they put the markings at the stop line? Lunacy.

corktina

It is logical to say any exit after 12 oc take the right lane as you are essentially turning right....really it's common sense, especially if everyone indicates

mano bano

corktina wrote: »

It is logical to say any exit after 12 oc take the right lane as you are essentially turning right....really it's common sense, especially if everyone indicates

if people would indicate properly i have seen signs near roundabouts telling drivers to use indicators

ironclaw

corktina wrote: »

It is logical to say any exit after 12 oc take the right lane as you are essentially turning right....really it's common sense, especially if everyone indicates

Fully agree. However, the usual logic falls down a little here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.1813323,-6.1295509,130m/data=!3m1!1e3

If you are going from the Southern Cross to the N11, the left lane is left turn only (And there are two left turns!) The right lane is straight on or right. However, the exit (if you go straight on) is two lanes. Thats grand during the day, but during rush hour traffic, you end up with the exit left lane filling up, thus the left lane becomes the 'straight on lane' on the approach.

Then you have those that consider their time far more important than others, and skip up the right hand side, to cut in closer to Hills roundabout. While they are in the correct lane, they are generally being total prats.

So as a road layout, its nonsense really.

Xennon

Its all a grey area coz no one has properly defined the rules. 12o'c rule my ass I'm always at work around that time (i'll grab my coat )

But seriously...I think the NRA live in some ideal world where roundabouts are perfect cross-roads, and I love the way they change the rules and tell no-one...

And no...putting signs on the roads is not a good idea...put them overhead each lane so people can see the damn things. This painting directions on the road is really really dumb.

mano bano

mano bano wrote: »

I have seen accidents like this and wonder who'd be at fault id say car B here goes on approach to roundabout there's two lanes left marked R118 and right lane L3027 and right arrow car A is in left lane car B right. The R118 is the 2nd exit off roundabout car A sets off te go passes 1st exit comes up to 2nd exit and car B who was in the right hand cuts across A and the two cars hit each other. Car A is in the lane while car B is on hatch makings. Car A damage is front right and car B damage is left corner of bumper.

Just heard today car B insurance company have taking 100% liability

Marty McFly

Ok from what I can gather from the OP's post I had a similar accident.

I was on the outside lane going taking the second exit, car beside me was on the inside lane and also decided to take the second single lane exit and crashed into the side of my car.

Now I seen her coming but there was a railance to my left so had no where to go, beeped my horn and bang she hit me.

Once she got out began ranting and raving at me it was my fault she had her indicator on so fcuking what you were in the wrong lane. Called the Gards who told her to shut up she was in the wrong and then my car was fixed off her insurance.