Do you take success into account when considering relationships?

karaokeman

Let's say you meet an amazing girl at a point you are still finding yourself in life, do you feel any pressure to further your career/studies so that you will have more to offer, or do you just enjoy the relationship and satisfy the rest later?

In my experience there is often pressure on guys to have a stable income and/ or lifestyle, the same way the guy is expected to ask a girl out or propose.

karaokeman

karaokeman wrote: »

Let's say you meet an amazing girl at a point you are still finding yourself in life, do you feel any pressure to further your career/studies so that you will have more to offer, or do you just enjoy the relationship and satisfy the rest later?

In my experience there is often pressure on guys to have a stable income and/ or lifestyle, the same way the guy is expected to ask a girl out or propose.

You might be mixing up two different areas, most people both men and women do not want to be in a relationship with a lazy unmotivated directionless individual, however the vast majority of women are going to cut you some slack if you are say an unemployed joiner or architect because if you have studied and qualified at something it shows that you are intelligent and can stick at something, the fact the you are unemployed is just an unfortunate set of circumstances, do you see the difference.

Seriously?

karaokeman wrote: »

In my experience there is often pressure on guys to have a stable income and/ or lifestyle, the same way the guy is expected to ask a girl out or propose.

Thats because society has equated a males worth to their ability to support a family financially, you can even see that expectation of men paying for dates as a sort of insurance to verify they can afford the lifestyle they'll be expected to support.

karaokeman

mariaalice wrote: »

You might be mixing up two different areas, most people both men and women do not want to be in a relationship with a lazy unmotivated directionless individual, however the vast majority of women are going to cut you some slack if you are say an unemployed joiner or architect because if you have studied and qualified at something it shows that you are intelligent and can stick at something, the fact the you are unemployed is just an unfortunate set of circumstances, do you see the difference.

I am not talking about lazy guys who lack all motivation because there is always a middle ground between that and someone who is very successful and full of ambition.

My point refers more to say, a guy who has an undergraduate degree and is unsure what to do next, and there are a lot of them.

karaokeman

karaokeman wrote: »

I am not talking about lazy guys who lack all motivation because there is always a middle ground between that and someone who is very successful and full of ambition.

My point refers more to say, a guy who has an undergraduate degree and is unsure what to do next, and there are a lot of them.

Would you not want to get yourself sorted on some path in life for your own sake and not because of what some woman might think about you? woman your own age are not going to think any thing less of you because you are not sure what to do after college, however if it is years since you were in college and your still bumming around with no idea of what to do, that might put some women off but not all women.

Bottom line is you need to be motivated to do it for your self and not because of what a woman will think.

Holsten

Yes I do feel pressure.

There is always a pressure to better yourself.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

Would you not want to get yourself sorted on some path in life for your own sake and not because of what some woman might think about you?

He's asking a bloody question. Where did he say that it's because of what women might think? I don't the impression that he doesn't want a path in life, he's asking others if they've experienced that pressure in a relationship or potential relationship setting.

karaokeman

Buttonftw is bang on, now back on topic :P.

Sleepy

I'll be honest, the main pressure I felt in life to be successful came from the same source I'd imagine a lot of Irish men get it from: a socially aspirational Irish Mammy.

Where women were concerned, I was always wary of those who seemed to be sizing me up based on the amount of money (or more realistically, lack thereof) in my wallet / level of my prospects. Not necessarily because I was opposed to being the primary/sole breadwinner but more because I can't stand the sense of self-entitlement that seems to come with the desire to be the home-maker in many women.

Pawwed Rig

mariaalice wrote: »

most people both men and women do not want to be in a relationship with a lazy unmotivated directionless individual.

I don't think this is necessarily true. There are huge amounts of people happy to shack up with partners that have low aspirations in life. From an anecdotal experience the under achievers I schooled with married earlier and had more children than those who applied themselves.
I also see couples who have 'decided' that minding 1 child is a fulltime job where one of them has ceased any motivation or direction career wise.

Sleepy wrote: »

I'll be honest, the main pressure I felt in life to be successful came from the same source I'd imagine a lot of Irish men get it from: a socially aspirational Irish Mammy.

I think this is largely a myth that credits a mans success to anyone other than him. Everything I have gotten in life is through hard work. I have failed and suceeded on my own two feet.

Slattsy

Absolute bollocks.

Slattsy

I strongly disagree.

endacl

Slattsy wrote: »

Absolute bollocks.

Just for clarification, would you consider any bollocks at all, or just successful ones?

Lou.m

Female talking here.

I was with a guy for a year and a half who was unemployed the whole time.

I would say it really depends on why and who it is.

I did not find out a lot about him until I had been with him for a bit and it turned out the relationship was a huge mistake and very dangerous for me.

That is not because he was unemployed but he was unemployed partly because of his problems. I found out he had a criminal record and a previous drug habit and had started to use again. His behavior towards me was what made me end it.

I would say if I met someone who was unemployed I would consider being with them but I would need to know that their life and behavior was in some order. But you having money when they do not can get in the way. I would buy him food etc often and I would want to do things he could not afford to do so I would end up paying etc. I was ok with it but it made him resent it.

Men do not have to spend money on me but they do need to make an effort in some way. At the very end he ended up spending any money of alcohol or drugs.

He did not treat me at all well. But that was nothing to do with his success in life. Rather the opposite his attitude affected his success.


If you click with a good person who had their **** together in other ways it can work but it really depends on the guy.

Also I would say some women looking to settle down would feel they were being held up. It would be difficult to plan a future though.
But for me if he was a decent guy and not playing around i would consider it. As I say it might be difficult to plan a future though which might make me think about it.

Slattsy

The OP asked if there is added pressure to a relationship to be successful/attempt to further your career etc etc.

I stick to what I said...

Any self respecting girl doesn't fall in love with a guy because of what he might turn out to be in 5 years.

thecatspjs

I wouldn't feel any pressure personally. I would always be trying to better myself, but only for me. If you don't know what you want to do then there is no point just aimlessly obtaining qualifications to make yourself appear more successful IMO. The amazing girl wouldn't be with you anyway if she didn't like you for who you are now, as opposed to who you could become.

Morf

karaokeman wrote: »

Let's say you meet an amazing girl at a point you are still finding yourself in life, do you feel any pressure to further your career/studies so that you will have more to offer, or do you just enjoy the relationship and satisfy the rest later?

In my experience there is often pressure on guys to have a stable income and/ or lifestyle, the same way the guy is expected to ask a girl out or propose.

Are you asking this as a personal opinion or a societal expectation?

For me it would depend on my current attitude to self/why I was attracted to her (on what level whether it is aesthetic/ambition/overriding personality traits/other). If I was doing eff all and I met a girl who was driven, successful and assertive and those were traits I found appealing then yeah it would make me feel inferior. If I was attracted to a girl who wasn't driven by materialistic things and possibly creative or idealistic there would be less of a contrast.

It'd all depend on the girl, the point I'm at in my head at the time and any number of uncontrollables outside of that.

On a societal level then I would say yeah there would be that general expectation to progress in your career/status. It is up to you to choose to accept or reject that notion though.

Sleepy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I think this is largely a myth that credits a mans success to anyone other than him. Everything I have gotten in life is through hard work. I have failed and suceeded on my own two feet.

I wouldn't credit any success or failure to anyone else but myself. I meant that my desire to be successful was instilled in me by my own socially aspirational mother and I think this is far from unusual in Ireland (though it may not just be an Irish thing, I can only speak to my own experience and this is where I grew up and have lived the majority of my life).

There's obviously a correlation in the reverse too: those born to parents who've been life-long welfare recipients tend to continue along the same path as their parents. Yes, there are exceptions and external factors (e.g. lack of role models, social issues in the neighbourhood, not being able to afford grind schools, etc.) but parental influence seems to be the biggest determining factor of whether a child grows up with a positive attitude to education and work and every person I know personally who made something of themselves having come from such a background would have had at least one very supportive parent.

ongarboy

I think OP brought up something interesting when he said success in the thread title without quantifying in the title what type of success. In his post, he then referred to it as career and lifestyle success and the ability to pay for the girl on dates etc.

That is not definitive success to me. Yes, career progression and the ambition and drive that are associated with it are admirable qualities. However a successful human being can not be at the top of the career ladder or aspire to be or financially well off and still be an amazing person in so many other ways (the time they give to others, charities, volunteer work, carer duties, their empathy for others, their own self esteem and confidence, selflessness, respect for others - particularly for themselves and their other half).

The amazing girl OP refers to in his first post - is she really that amazing if she judges you first and foremost for where you are in your career, how promising a career it is, earnings potential, how much you can wine and dine them? I'm not saying she is or isn't any of those things (or whether she is just a hypothetical example the OP is using). I know I did not take the success OP is referring to into account when I met my OH. I fell in love with them for many of the success attributes I mentioned above (and obviously the physical chemistry too! ) and I consider our relationship far more rewarding as a result.

I think there is something shallow and lacking if OP and others feel the pressures he refers to in his opening post as being prerequisites for relatonships. Are they really the amazing girls they want to be with if they (or so called society) instigate such pressures? Challenge societal norms in that case is my advice!

beks101

As a woman I'm always wary of men who 'lead' with their careers, use the fact that they're in X, Y, Z profession as a major selling point. Having dated a lot in the past, I've encountered a sh1t ton of dickhead doctors, aRsehole lawyers, high-rolling pr1cks who think the fact that they make X amount of money means they indefinitely should have their pick of women and certainly for many, their ego was built around this so-called "high status" dictated by their careers.

In relationships the most basic personality qualities are the most important for me, and all too often, the most rare. Kindness, generosity, loyalty, emotional maturity. Honesty about who they are and what they want.

I have absolute respect for anyone who has built a wonderful career and life for themselves, God knows I've worked hard enough myself in my own field and understand completely how that success can excite and fulfill and enrich your life in many ways.

But it's not what defines a person or what makes them likely to be a good and loving partner - by any stretch of the imagination.

Holsten wrote: »

There is always a pressure to better yourself.

Agree 100%. And it's a human thing, not a male or female thing.

While females may not have historically or traditionally had the same pressure of financial success in a relationship, I know that I've personally found myself at times pulling back from getting into anything serious with a guy because I felt unhappy with my lot, unsettled in my career, or too busy with my work schedule, or too fcuked up in the head for whatever reason work or non-work related to find any room for commitment to another person.

I've never wanted to find myself in a relationship where I'm not happy in my own life or my own skin before it even kicks off, and what I'm doing for a living / what direction my career is going would certainly play into that.

Aidric

Holsten wrote: »

There is always a pressure to better yourself.

For me that pressure comes from within as I am ambitious. I am not guided by the perceived wishes of others.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Everything I have gotten in life is through hard work.

This exactly. I build my own goals and work my ass off to achieve them. I would be drawn to similarly ambitious women. Does it mean I discount women who don't fit this criteria? No, you can't put people in boxes like that.

Lou.m

ongarboy wrote: »

I think OP brought up something interesting when he said success in the thread title without quantifying in the title what type of success. In his post, he then referred to it as career and lifestyle success and the ability to pay for the girl on dates etc.

That is not definitive success to me. Yes, career progression and the ambition and drive that are associated with it are admirable qualities. However a successful human being can not be at the top of the career ladder or aspire to be or financially well off and still be an amazing person in so many other ways (the time they give to others, charities, volunteer work, carer duties, their empathy for others, their own self esteem and confidence, selflessness, respect for others - particularly for themselves and their other half).

The amazing girl OP refers to in his first post - is she really that amazing if she judges you first and foremost for where you are in your career, how promising a career it is, earnings potential, how much you can wine and dine them? I'm not saying she is or isn't any of those things (or whether she is just a hypothetical example the OP is using). I know I did not take the success OP is referring to into account when I met my OH. I fell in love with them for many of the success attributes I mentioned above (and obviously the physical chemistry too! ) and I consider our relationship far more rewarding as a result.

I think there is something shallow and lacking if OP and others feel the pressures he refers to in his opening post as being prerequisites for relatonships. Are they really the amazing girls they want to be with if they (or so called society) instigate such pressures? Challenge societal norms in that case is my advice!

Yes I agree. You must be successful personally rather than professionally.

One will lead to the other anyway.

But it is more important the guy is balanced and mature that he 'gets it'. That he is secure in himself.

If his reason for not being where he wants in his career is to do with personal problems that are serious though those issues tend to affect ones life.

The whole social climbing things defies a person having a good character anyway.

I would want him to be intelligent that does not mean having gone to Uni but it does mean being able to click etc.

As a woman I'm always wary of men who 'lead' with their careers, use the fact that they're in X, Y, Z profession as a major selling point. Having dated a lot in the past, I've encountered a sh1t ton of dickhead doctors, aRsehole lawyers, high-rolling pr1cks who think the fact that they make X amount of money means they indefinitely should have their pick of women and certainly for many, their ego was built around this so-called "high status" dictated by their careers.

Yeah or guys who are like I live in x area or whatever. Or I drive x. I am not into material stuff for relationships. But he has to make an effort if he thinks money buys it he does not get it. Character and emotional understanding does.

Actually what is a REAL turn on is when a guy has faith in you and is supportive. Like when he says ' hey you are going to be a real huge success I know it'. And when they acknowledge your achievements 'look how far you have come!'.

I think there are three female tropes the woman who accepts her lover if he is fair as he is. The gold digger and the woman who 'makes the man' she can be a positive influence or a Lady Macbeth type.

You can help a person believe in themselves and be their most powerful self as they see that to be. Or you can harp on at them and drive them to your own will which is very negative.

If a man and woman love each other they will accept each other as they are but also support each other in doing the best and being the best of who they are etc. That is important.

Voglio

Slattsy wrote: »

The OP asked if there is added pressure to a relationship to be successful/attempt to further your career etc etc.

I stick to what I said...

Any self respecting girl doesn't fall in love with a guy because of what he might turn out to be in 5 years.

Love isn't enough though. I'm a man and I wouldn't enter into a serious relationship with a woman who didn't have a decent career. Money is important and I want to live a comfortable life.

Slattsy

Voglio wrote: »

Love isn't enough though. I'm a man and I wouldn't enter into a serious relationship with a woman who didn't have a decent career. Money is important and I want to live a comfortable life.

Seems a very shallow attitude to carry into a relationship. But if you think you can live a lifetime with someone without love then I think you're in for a hard fall.

smcgiff

My wife definitely took a chance on me when it wasn't at all certain I'd amount to much. I, er, really enjoyed college (first time around). I think I've since repaid that faith.

But, it's not just one way. I personally would find myself attracted to successful women.

Pawwed Rig

Slattsy wrote: »

Seems a very shallow attitude to carry into a relationship. But if you think you can live a lifetime with someone without love then I think you're in for a hard fall.

I don't think he is saying that though. What he is saying is that love is not enough. Anyone can fall in love with anyone else but the infatuation type love soon fades and if there is not more underpinning the realtionship then it is probably doomed. For example look at the easy on the eye thread. There are few girls in it that I would consider relationship material as we would have so little in common that we would end hating each other.
A relationship is extremely difficult where values are not shared.

Daveysil15

beks101 wrote: »

As a woman I'm always wary of men who 'lead' with their careers, use the fact that they're in X, Y, Z profession as a major selling point. Having dated a lot in the past, I've encountered a sh1t ton of dickhead doctors, aRsehole lawyers, high-rolling pr1cks who think the fact that they make X amount of money means they indefinitely should have their pick of women and certainly for many, their ego was built around this so-called "high status" dictated by their careers.

Excellent post.

Pug160

Someone who is hard working and ambitious/career driven will probably be drawn more to people with a similar philosophy and outlook on life. I've no problem with that - it's logical and unsurprising. Like others have said, do something positive for your own benefit, not to impress others.

burnhardlanger

Just remember the speed dating company from a few years ago that dictated a minimum salary/Elite Singles etc.