Irish Daily Mail hijacked my photograph, advice sought.

osprey

An image I took and own was used by the Irish Daily Mail today without any permission sought and completely without my knowledge. What is more, it was taken directly from facebook. Factually, that is against the terms of fair use and a disregard/breach of copyright. They created a half page story on it.
The wording of the article to go with it was very poor, you can imagine they deemed to sensationalize the image (of a natural event) and in turn misinform any readers. All together it's a complete cock up on their part. I contacted the picture desk editor and was given a lengthy apology as well as the offer to forward an invoice. I also spoke to the writer of the article who passed the buck on to her 'sub-editor' as being responsible for toying with her original words prior to print. In turn she contacted the paper's editor who chose not to get back to me. I smelt a rat all afternoon as it was literally excuse after excuse.

First time for me in a situation like this, I wonder can anybody advise on the next step from experience? Thank you.

Triangla

You mean they used Facebook's picture:

https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

I would just invoice them and move on with my life

Zonua

osprey wrote: »

I contacted the picture desk editor and was given a lengthy apology as well as the offer to forward an invoice.

Seems fair enough. What more do you want? (genuine question)
Send them the invoice. Re the 'misleading' stuff, how does this actually effect you? Is it defamatory?

osprey

Zonua wrote: »

Seems fair enough. What more do you want? (genuine question)
Send them the invoice. Re the 'misleading' stuff, how does this actually effect you? Is it defamatory?

No it's not defamatory, that's just a background to their cock up. I'm posting here as I have no idea how to price it, like I said it's the first time I've been in this position. So I need some advice.

GarIT

I assume you know that if you post an image on Facebook that you own you transfer sole ownership and any rights of that image to Facebook. Let facebook know that the daily mail owes them for using their photo and get on with it.

Paulw

Triangla wrote: »

You mean they used Facebook's picture:

https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

You mean that you have a problem understanding the Facebook terms?? :eek: It is still your photo. Facebook only have a right to use it in conjunction with Facebook and you have the right to remove that at any stage. It is still your photo and you hold the copyright on the image.

Send them an invoice. Simple. Your image is worth probably €80 to them.

MilanPan!c

osprey wrote: »

An image I took and own was used by the Irish Daily Mail today without any permission sought and completely without my knowledge. What is more, it was taken directly from facebook. Factually, that is against the terms of fair use and a disregard/breach of copyright. They created a half page story on it.
The wording of the article to go with it was very poor, you can imagine they deemed to sensationalize the image (of a natural event) and in turn misinform any readers. All together it's a complete cock up on their part. I contacted the picture desk editor and was given a lengthy apology as well as the offer to forward an invoice. I also spoke to the writer of the article who passed the buck on to her 'sub-editor' as being responsible for toying with her original words prior to print. In turn she contacted the paper's editor who chose not to get back to me. I smelt a rat all afternoon as it was literally excuse after excuse.

First time for me in a situation like this, I wonder can anybody advise on the next step from experience? Thank you.

Do this and take a chance.

Tell them they can either:

- pay you 500 for the photo, or
- give you 80€ and a foot in the door

osprey

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Do this and take a chance.

Tell them they can either:

- pay you 500 for the photo, or
- give you 80€ and a foot in the door

In an ideal world that might just work, I admire your thinking, but editorial is not for me!

MilanPan!c

osprey wrote: »

In an ideal world that might just work, I admire your thinking, but editorial is not for me!

I hear ya.

Some thing's are worth more than money

Zonua

osprey wrote: »

No it's not defamatory, that's just a background to their cock up. I'm posting here as I have no idea how to price it, like I said it's the first time I've been in this position. So I need some advice.

My advice:
1. Send them the invoice, as requested
2. Feel chuffed that you got a picture published in a national newspaper!
3. Profit

Farmlife

This happened to me before, but the person who was in the picture taught they owned the photo and sent it into the paper, i accepted their apology and €80. But if they took yours without asking or contacting you I'd look for 2/3 times that under the circumstances.

tricky D

Paulw wrote: »

You mean that you have a problem understanding the Facebook terms?? :eek: It is still your photo. Facebook only have a right to use it in conjunction with Facebook and you have the right to remove that at any stage. It is still your photo and you hold the copyright on the image.

Send them an invoice. Simple. Your image is worth probably €80 to them.

Yup. Here's what Facebook's terms actually say fwiw (item 2, 1):

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

Facebook are not going to shoot themselves in the face by taking over others' IP rights, they're mainly covering their behinds and making sure they can use IP for things like their advertising, promos... whatever, not direct commercial exploitation.

osprey

tricky D wrote: »

Yup. Here's what Facebook's terms actually say fwiw (item 2, 1):


Facebook are not going to shoot themselves in the face by taking over others' IP rights, they're mainly covering their behinds and making sure they can use IP for things like their advertising, promos... whatever, not direct commercial exploitation.

Well sourced. It is a true thing that even in mainstream media there is an underlying belief that reporters and picture desks assume that what is contained within facebook's platform is public domain. It is not the case, as proven in numerous challenges in the Courts.

MarcQ

Without wanting to hijack the thread, what is the going rate for publication of a photograph in a national newspaper?

I was contacted last week by the news editor of a national broadsheet requesting a couple of photos for a feature they were running. I was told that credit would be given for anything published. I wasn't too bothered about payment as the subject of the feature is a friend, and the photo credit in a national newspaper would come in handy when seeking accreditation for certain events. I sent on a couple of shots for him to pick from.

The feature appeared in Saturday's paper with three photos taking up half a page with the text covering the rest of the page, however there was no image credit. I checked the rest of the paper and there are 58 images where the photographer was credited and 8 with no credit.

Obviously the paper cannot publish a credit in a future edition. I've sent the editor an email asking what happened to the credit but have not heard back yet.

Onesimus

Looks like Photographers are always getting the sharp end of the stick just like musicians do as well. everyoneeee expects to get your art for free. stricter laws should be set up to prevent robbing peoples work.

dinneenp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would just invoice them and move on with my life

Meow! In fairness if it's the ops first time it happened I'm. Sure they're surprised, shocked and interested in others opinions on it.

@op: van you share the photo?

Effects

MarcQ wrote: »

Obviously the paper cannot publish a credit in a future edition. I've sent the editor an email asking what happened to the credit but have not heard back yet.

Send an invoice in lieu of credit.

MarcQ

Effects wrote: »

Send an invoice in lieu of credit.

That brings me back to my initial question - what is the going rate for publication in a national newspaper? I've read that it can vary based on a number of factors but can't seem to find any clear guidance on rates.

It is three photographs covering roughly half a broadsheet page in the Saturday edition of a national newspaper.

Effects

MarcQ wrote: »

That brings me back to my initial question - what is the going rate for publication in a national newspaper?

About €60

MarcQ

Thanks.

Is that €60 per photo (so €180 total) or €60 for the lot?

Deadlie

I'd go €180.

I had the Sun take images off my website and then claim they had permission to use them. I said I'd no problem going further with it, legally and they rang me back later in the day to pay what I was asking for (€60 for the photo, €100 for copyright infringement)

Paulw

MarcQ wrote: »

what is the going rate for publication in a national newspaper? I've read that it can vary based on a number of factors but can't seem to find any clear guidance on rates.

It totally depends. Depends on the paper, the page the images are printed on, the size, and other factors. Anything from €60 to €120. Even those prices can vary.

The best way to know the rate - ask the editor. They will tell you the rate they pay. Then invoice them.

osprey

dinneenp wrote: »

Meow! In fairness if it's the ops first time it happened I'm. Sure they're surprised, shocked and interested in others opinions on it.

@op: van you share the photo?

Meow indeed!! I thought the same. Here's the photo as ran in the Independent. Their picture desk is always helpful and legitimate.

endacl

osprey wrote: »

Meow indeed!! I thought the same. Here's the photo as ran in the Independent. Their picture desk is always helpful and legitimate.

Nice shot.

dinneenp

dinneenp wrote: »

Meow! In fairness if it's the ops first time it happened I'm. Sure they're surprised, shocked and interested in others opinions on it.

That was actually my opinion...

ditpaintball

The Irish Daily Star standard image rate is €70
The Irish Sun is €75
Not sure about the others.

This happens quite a lot, I have even had images taken off instagram and printed. In my case, it's usually models that send in the pictures to the papers without telling me. I just invoice them and move on.