New Young Farmer. Start in 2014 or 2015 for best CAP gain

bmccaff

I have been holding out on starting farming in my own name until this CAP reform was decided. under 35 and have required training.
Currently all in my fathers name. 52 hectares and 51.2 entitlements (about the average value). DAS and SFP claimed. REPS finished.
I have sheep on approx 10 of these hectares which are in his herd and through his accounts at moment.(so basically just a farm helper!)

Would it make sense to get a Flock ID and take 10 hectares and and then claim DAS and enter new AEOS scheme. My father would loose claim on 10 entitlements this year.
Can he stack his 51 entitlements over remaining 42 ha in 2015?
Would I be granted new entitlements next year and get 25% top up?
My father is willing to transfer more if it is beneficial to both of us as he is semi-retired. Confused and cant find proper advice or info! thanks

Toplink

bmccaff wrote: »

I have been holding out on starting farming in my own name until this CAP reform was decided. under 35 and have required training.
Currently all in my fathers name. 52 hectares and 51.2 entitlements (about the average value). DAS and SFP claimed. REPS finished.
I have sheep on approx 10 of these hectares which are in his herd and through his accounts at moment.(so basically just a farm helper!)

Would it make sense to get a Flock ID and take 10 hectares and and then claim DAS and enter new AEOS scheme. My father would loose claim on 10 entitlements this year.
Can he stack his 51 entitlements over remaining 42 ha in 2015?
Would I be granted new entitlements next year and get 25% top up?
My father is willing to transfer more if it is beneficial to both of us as he is semi-retired. Confused and cant find proper advice or info! thanks

I am open to correction on this but....

If you start in 2014 you will get the 25% top up over 4 years.
If you start in 2015 you will get the 25% top up over 5 years.

So starting in 2015 will be beneficial in this way.

One thing to watch for when getting a Herd No/Flock id... Whatever land you are using must have a shed on it where a sick animal can be houses if needed. This held up my application this year so I am holding til 2015 and going to build a decent shed using the TAMS grant if possible.

Sami23

Toplink wrote: »

I am open to correction on this but....

If you start in 2014 you will get the 25% top up over 4 years.
If you start in 2015 you will get the 25% top up over 5 years.

So starting in 2015 will be beneficial in this way.

One thing to watch for when getting a Herd No/Flock id... Whatever land you are using must have a shed on it where a sick animal can be houses if needed. This held up my application this year so I am holding til 2015 and going to build a decent shed using the TAMS grant if possible.

Do you know by any chance if the 25% top up will be on each farmers own payments or 25% of the national average ?

Toplink

Sami23 wrote: »

Do you know by any chance if the 25% top up will be on each farmers own payments or 25% of the national average ?

No idea. My financial appraisals were based on the farmers own payment and this would seem the fairest method to be honest.

dungfly

Toplink wrote: »

I am open to correction on this but....

If you start in 2014 you will get the 25% top up over 4 years.
If you start in 2015 you will get the 25% top up over 5 years.

So starting in 2015 will be beneficial in this way. e.

can anyone else clarify this?

Viewtodiefor

dungfly wrote: »

can anyone else clarify this?

Yes it's five yrs from when you start/started

Farrell

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Yes it's five yrs from when you start/started

Had a BTAP meeting tonight, it seams to be 25% of Nat average - €65-80.
Pity about the 5 year from start rule

paddysdream

Sami23 wrote: »

Do you know by any chance if the 25% top up will be on each farmers own payments or 25% of the national average ?

Its 25% of the national average per entitlement of a top up.Limited to (I think) 50 hectares maximum.

Fairest way to be honest as if based on the young farmers own entitlements then some people with payments of 600 plus per hectare would get 125 euro per hectare top up and those starting out with 200 euro entitlement would receive 50 euro.

bmccaff

Just got answer back to the original post that I emailed to CAP enquires service below. useful info for anyone in the same boat

"The new Basic Payment Scheme does not allow for stacking.
If you commence farming 10 of your father’s hectares in 2014, then your father cannot declare those 10 hectares on his 2014 SPS application. That would mean that he would only be using 42 entitlements in the 2014 scheme year and would only receive payment on those. However, he would be able to carry the reference value from all of his SPS entitlements (including the unused ones) forward to the new scheme. He would be allocated new BPS entitlements based on the land declared by him in 2015 - the lower of 2015 or 2013. The value of those entitlements will be based on a fixed percentage of the SPS entitlements owned by him in 2014, spread over the number of entitlements.

The definition of a young farmer under the new scheme is
1. Aged 40 or less in first year of BPS application
2. Established holding within previous 5 years
3. Agricultural Qualification - FETAC level 6

If you meet this definition, then you will be allocated new Basic Payment Scheme entitlements from the National Reserve in 2015. The number of entitlements allocated to you will be based on the hectares that you are farming – 10. The value of those entitlements will be the National Average. You will also receive the Greening Payment on those hectares and a further payment under the Young Farmers Scheme at 25% of National Average payment per hectare for a maximum of 5 years.

2015 is the optimum year for establishing. If you start farming in 2014, that year will not count for the Young Farmers Scheme, so the most you will get the 25% extra is for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018

. "

TippNorth

Quick Query I hope someone can help me on regarding Basic Payments in 2015,

My Basic Payment in 2014 was €189/Ha, this will reduce to €124 in 2015 (Initial Unit value) plus I'll get approx. €58 /Ha from greening. I qualify as a young farmer and i'm eligible to apply to National Reserve. Am I correct in saying that if I apply to the National Reserve I will receive a top up on my entitlements value from €124 to the National average of €171?

Thanks
TN

Farmer Pudsey

Not sure if jumping through hoops for payments on 10ish HA is worth it. OP I think if you rent your fathers land he cannot stack so what you gain he loses. If he had land rented and you rented instead it might work but again amount will be limited. it will be SFP on 10 HA so will be about 2.5K. However down the line if you farmed in your own name you would no longer be a young farmer and access to higher grants might be gone.

LivInt20

Sami23 wrote: »

Do you know by any chance if the 25% top up will be on each farmers own payments or 25% of the national average ?

25% of national average about €64

LivInt20

TippNorth wrote: »

Quick Query I hope someone can help me on regarding Basic Payments in 2015,

My Basic Payment in 2014 was €189/Ha, this will reduce to €124 in 2015 (Initial Unit value) plus I'll get approx. €58 /Ha from greening. I qualify as a young farmer and i'm eligible to apply to National Reserve. Am I correct in saying that if I apply to the National Reserve I will receive a top up on my entitlements value from €124 to the National average of €171?

Thanks
TN

Yes, it is my understanding that you will be brought up to the national average.

LivInt20

bmccaff wrote: »

I have been holding out on starting farming in my own name until this CAP reform was decided. under 35 and have required training.
Currently all in my fathers name. 52 hectares and 51.2 entitlements (about the average value). DAS and SFP claimed. REPS finished.
I have sheep on approx 10 of these hectares which are in his herd and through his accounts at moment.(so basically just a farm helper!)

Would it make sense to get a Flock ID and take 10 hectares and and then claim DAS and enter new AEOS scheme. My father would loose claim on 10 entitlements this year.
Can he stack his 51 entitlements over remaining 42 ha in 2015?
Would I be granted new entitlements next year and get 25% top up?
My father is willing to transfer more if it is beneficial to both of us as he is semi-retired. Confused and cant find proper advice or info! thanks

You would be better off taking over the entire farm in my opinion.

You can get the young farmers topup of 25% on all the land up to 50 ha. GLAS, ANC, possibility of 60% shed grant, etc.

All entitlement were wiped out on the 1st Jan and replaced with the Basic Payment Scheme.

jack o shea

is there a deadlinr to apply for the top up or how is it done? can anyone apply for national reserve?

visatorro

jack o shea wrote:

is there a deadlinr to apply for the top up or how is it done? can anyone apply for national reserve?

is the national reserve only for young farmers farming land that there is no entitlements on already, I think. don't know about deadline

Zr105

bmccaff wrote: »

I have been holding out on starting farming in my own name until this CAP reform was decided. under 35 and have required training.
Currently all in my fathers name. 52 hectares and 51.2 entitlements (about the average value). DAS and SFP claimed. REPS finished.
I have sheep on approx 10 of these hectares which are in his herd and through his accounts at moment.(so basically just a farm helper!)

Would it make sense to get a Flock ID and take 10 hectares and and then claim DAS and enter new AEOS scheme. My father would loose claim on 10 entitlements this year.
Can he stack his 51 entitlements over remaining 42 ha in 2015?
Would I be granted new entitlements next year and get 25% top up?
My father is willing to transfer more if it is beneficial to both of us as he is semi-retired. Confused and cant find proper advice or info! thanks

You have the option of getting your name added to your fathers herd no. (Would also need to put the farm acc into joint names) by doing this you could apply for the top up of €60*50ha(Max ie €3000) and I think but not 100% certain on this but if the entitlements they are offering are worth more than what you currently have you could apply to national reserve and get a higher value entitlement.

I think leasing 10ha from your father will leave neither of ye any better off, as someone already said 10ha*€250 is €2500+€600 top up, but your father is likely to have to loose his payments on the 10ha, plus you will have to have a shed etc, which would definitely say good bye to any sort of money you did gain,