Leaving Cert Irish

Cian_

Hi everyone.

I plan on attending UL next year, but unfortunately I only do one language and that's Irish. It's definitely my weakest subject, and I'm really starting to doubt if I'll be able to pass it.

If I fail Irish, is that my chances of attending UL gone out the window? or is there any exceptions to the requirements?

Also, if I do fail Irish and have to repeat the Leaving Cert to get into UL, will I have to repeat all my subjects again, or is it possible to just repeat Irish and forget about the other subjects since I'll more than likely pass all of them this year and get the points I need?

Agent_99

Are your CAO choices Irish related?
If not you will only need the points required for generally entry.
What courses have you applied for?

Cian_

Agent_99 wrote: »

Are your CAO choices Irish related?
If not you will only need the points required for generally entry.
What courses have you applied for?

Not at all. My first choice is Mobile Communications and Security, and all my other choices are computer or engineering related too.

Here's what it says in 'Entry Requirements' for that course.

Applicants are required to hold at the time of enrolment the established Leaving Certificate (or an approved equivalent) with at least Grade C3 in two Higher Level subjects and Grade D3 in four Ordinary or Higher Level subjects (including Mathematics; Irish or another language; and English).

It's kind of ridiculous that you need Irish, because the course will have absolutely nothing got to do with Irish.

cgordonfreeman

Give the course director a call / email. He's sound out. His details are here. There might be some solution ye can come up with. In the meantime, knuckle down and do your best in Irish.

Russellynx

tbh it would be hard not to get a d3 in ordinary level irish. are you really that bad? did you live abroad for a number of years?

Reiver

Cian_ wrote: »

It's kind of ridiculous that you need Irish, because the course will have absolutely nothing got to do with Irish.

Could be worse mate, any of the NUI colleges would want Irish AND another language. Just stick with it, they've changed up the marking procedure a bit so you'll be able to get alot more marks in the oral and aural exams. I'd to struggle with maths myself, its only a few more months to go. If you know you're having problems with it now, then you've got time to fix it.

GaelMise

It's kind of ridiculous that you need Irish, because the course will have absolutely nothing got to do with Irish.

Not really, firstly you dont need Irish, you need a second language, and Irish can be used as that second language. So its a question of needng a second language, not specifically Irish.
Speaking a second language is commonly seen as an important part of a good education. The requirements list also acts as a screen for people that are capable of undertaking a course at third level. If you are unable to do well enough to get a D3 in ordinary level Irish (or another language) then its quite possible that you will struggle at third level.

Cian_

GaelMise wrote: »

Not really, firstly you dont need Irish, you need a second language, and Irish can be used as that second language. So its a question of needng a second language, not specifically Irish.
Speaking a second language is commonly seen as an important part of a good education. The requirements list also acts as a screen for people that are capable of undertaking a course at third level. If you are unable to do well enough to get a D3 in ordinary level Irish (or another language) then its quite possible that you will struggle at third level.

I'm good at all my other subjects. I do all higher level except for Irish, and the subjects I do would be far more relevant to a course like this than Irish would. (Applied Maths, Physics, DCG and Business).
I've also studied a number of programming languages outside of school, so I personally feel I'd be able to handle third level. The only thing that catches me out is languages. I was never good at languages, Mathematics was always my strong point.

GaelMise

Cian_ wrote: »

I'm good at all my other subjects. I do all higher level except for Irish, and the subjects I do would be far more relevant to a course like this than Irish would. (Applied Maths, Physics, DCG and Business).
I've also studied a number of programming languages outside of school, so I personally feel I'd be able to handle third level. The only thing that catches me out is languages. I was never good at languages, Mathematics was always my strong point.

You seem to be doing just fine at English. The notion that some people are just not good at languages is a falicy. There are many parts of the world where the entire population is completely fluent in two or more languages.
If you are struggeling with Irish, there is a reason for that, but the reason most certinly is not that 'you just are not good at languages'.

Reiver

It's not just about whats relevant to the course. They want to encourage the development of people as well. You can't just get by with one language anymore. Knowing languages makes you more employable and makes for a wee bit more understanding in the world today.

You didn't choose a language for the LC so Irish is your only option. Any of the NUI colleges require both Irish AND a second language. The exams are in June? You've got March, April, May to prepare for it. Do a bit of extra effort, you'll pull through with a pass no bother. Its not that hard to get.

Jester252

Cian_ wrote: »

Not at all. My first choice is Mobile Communications and Security, and all my other choices are computer or engineering related too.

Here's what it says in 'Entry Requirements' for that course.


It's kind of ridiculous that you need Irish, because the course will have absolutely nothing got to do with Irish.

Well that's because Irish is the only compulsory subject on the leaving cert.

GaelMise

Jester252 wrote: »

Well that's because Irish is the only compulsory subject on the leaving cert.

What has that got to do with it?

Jester252

GaelMise wrote: »

What has that got to do with it?

I guess you didn't read the OP or the quoted post

GaelMise

Jester252 wrote: »

I guess you didn't read the OP or the quoted post

I did, but what has Irish being compulsory for the LC got to do with UL's requirement that all applicants have a second language? If anything its lucky for him that Irish is compulsory for the LC, had it not been, one can only assume he would have dropped it and now found himself completely unable to meet UL's entry requirements due to a lack of any second language.

If UL dropped Irish as one of the second languages they accept as part of their entry requirements, he would be equally screwed right now.

Being in a position to do Irish is the one lifeline he has left open for himself for UL's entry requirements right now, instead of complaining about it being open to him at all, he should get his head down and try to make the best of the opportunities he has.

Jester252

GaelMise wrote: »

I did, but what has Irish being compulsory for the LC got to do with UL's requirement that all applicants have a second language? If anything its lucky for him that Irish is compulsory for the LC, had it not been, one can only assume he would have dropped it and now found himself completely unable to meet UL's entry requirements due to a lack of any second language.

If UL dropped Irish as one of the second languages they accept as part of their entry requirements, he would be equally screwed right now.

Being in a position to do Irish is the one lifeline he has left open for himself for UL's entry requirements right now, instead of complaining about it being open to him at all, he should get his head down and try to make the best of the opportunities he has.

Maybe after having to take Irish and needing English he didn't feel able for a third language.

He is already relying on one language for points. If he didn't have to take Irish he could have taken French or another European language, which is an easier exam and he might be better at.

I never said anything about UL dropping Irish as one of the second languages.

Russellynx

GaelMise wrote: »

I did, but what has Irish being compulsory for the LC got to do with UL's requirement that all applicants have a second language? If anything its lucky for him that Irish is compulsory for the LC, had it not been, one can only assume he would have dropped it and now found himself completely unable to meet UL's entry requirements due to a lack of any second language.

If UL dropped Irish as one of the second languages they accept as part of their entry requirements, he would be equally screwed right now.

Being in a position to do Irish is the one lifeline he has left open for himself for UL's entry requirements right now, instead of complaining about it being open to him at all, he should get his head down and try to make the best of the opportunities he has.

Would you cop on with your Irish ****, it's a ****ing joke of a language, uglier thn welsh and entirely useless outside of acting smug or reading the nuacht.

feargale

OP comes here with a genuine problem and gets caught in off topic crossfire where the exchanges are far from impressive,

GaelMise wrote: »

You seem to be doing just fine at English. The notion that some people are just not good at languages is a falicy. There are many parts of the world where the entire population is completely fluent in two or more languages.
If you are struggeling with Irish, there is a reason for that, but the reason most certinly is not that 'you just are not good at languages'.

There's a reason for everything. I'm useless at computers. Do you have a cure? It is not a fallacy to say some people are not good at languages. And there is a contradiction in your post in that you go on to accept the possibility that OP is struggling with Irish. I know a very good architect whose English spelling is appalling, a dentist whose general knowledge is zero. Should they drop the profession for a year to brush up on the other? OP needs sympathy, not a dissertation on places where people are multilingual because they grow up in multilingual societies.

@Russelynx re post "Would you cop on with your Irish ****, it's a ****ing joke of a language, uglier thn welsh and entirely useless outside of acting smug or reading the nuacht."

The less said about this post the better. You clearly know little or nothing about languages as does anyone who thinks he can measure the ugliness of a language. Look up "subjective" in an English dictionary. Your next stop should be "respect," as in respect for those whose first language is Irish or Welsh.

GaelMise

Russellynx wrote: »

Would you cop on with your Irish ****, it's a ****ing joke of a language, uglier thn welsh and entirely useless outside of acting smug or reading the nuacht.

No. You will just have to live with it.

*EDIT: As for Irish being usefull, you can also use it for getting the shift, which is what i did over the weekend.

GaelMise

feargale wrote: »

There's a reason for everything. I'm useless at computers. Do you have a cure? It is not a fallacy to say some people are not good at languages. And there is a contradiction in your post in that you go on to accept the possibility that OP is struggling with Irish. I know a very good architect whose English spelling is appalling, a dentist whose general knowledge is zero. Should they drop the profession for a year to brush up on the other? OP needs sympathy, not a dissertation on places where people are multilingual because they grow up in multilingual societies.

I accept that he is struggeling with Irish, what do not accept is that the reason he is struggeling with Irish is a lack of some kind of natural aptitude for learning languages.
There is really no evidence that suggests that any such natural aptitude, that determins how well you will learn a language, exists.

A bit of honest hard work on the part of the OP would probably sort the problem out. But they would rather cling to a notion that exhonerates themselves from blame, ie i'm just not good at languages, its not my fault, its just a lack of a natural aptitude. That kind of attitude is going to do nothing but hold the OP back, and as such the basis of it should be shown to be false.
Its somewhat akin to fat people pretending to be 'big boned', all this does is exhonerate them from blame and excuse them from doing anything about it.

As for your point about computers, my cure for you would be, actually put some work into it, don't hide behind an excuse like, I lack a natural aptitude to become good at computers, therefore there is no point trying.

Jester252

GaelMise wrote: »

I accept that he is struggeling with Irish, what do not accept is that the reason he is struggeling with Irish is a lack of some kind of natural aptitude for learning languages.
There is really no evidence that suggests that any such natural aptitude, that determins how well you will learn a language, exists.

A bit of honest hard work on the part of the OP would probably sort the problem out. But they would rather cling to a notion that exhonerates themselves from blame, ie i'm just not good at languages, its not my fault, its just a lack of a natural aptitude. That kind of attitude is going to do nothing but hold the OP back, and as such the basis of it should be shown to be false.
Its somewhat akin to fat people pretending to be 'big boned', all this does is exhonerate them from blame and excuse them from doing anything about it.

As for your point about computers, my cure for you would be, actually put some work into it, don't hide behind an excuse like, I lack a natural aptitude to become good at computers, therefore there is no point trying.

Dyslexia.

I guess you that person in school, the one who did all honers without any effort.

Reiver

My brother is dyslexic but he managed to get through honours English and German alright. Just made sure to put aside some extra time for it. Did pass Irish as well.

I know myself I'm useless at Maths, familiarity bred contempt though, practice won't make you perfect but it will help you get better at it.

Jester252

Reiver wrote: »

My brother is dyslexic but he managed to get through honours English and German alright. Just made sure to put aside some extra time for it. Did pass Irish as well.

I know myself I'm useless at Maths, familiarity bred contempt though, practice won't make you perfect but it will help you get better at it.

So? Not everyone is your brother.

Honours maths?

Reiver

For which I am eternally thankful. But yeah dyslexia isn't a crippling block like its made out to be.

Aye, scraped through alright but it was a miserable 6th year. Happy never to look at the exam paper again. And UL give a few bonus points for Honours so that was nice as well!

You'll get through it OP, you might loathe and be bad at the subject but just think, once its over with, college beckons and you're not required to study it again.

Jester252

OP put your head down are push through it, after June you'll never have to touch it again.

GaelMise

Jester252 wrote: »

Dyslexia.

I guess you that person in school, the one who did all honers without any effort.

Dyslexia does indeed have an impact, has the OP got dyslexia? They certainly have not said so. Dyslexia also does not prevent the learning of a second language, it just requires differnet stratigies and possibly a little extra work.

I did not get all honours, far from it, nor did I get a particularly good grade in Irish, at ordinary level, but I don't blame some fictional lack of aptitude. I put in a certain level of effort and got what I needed, had I put in more work, I could have done better.

The 'lack of natural aptitude' story that some people put about is little more than an excuse for lack of effort and can often become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jester252

GaelMise wrote: »

Dyslexia does indeed have an impact, has the OP got dyslexia? They certainly have not said so. Dyslexia also does not prevent the learning of a second language, it just requires differnet stratigies and possibly a little extra work.

I did not get all honours, far from it, nor did I get a particularly good grade in Irish, at ordinary level, but I don't blame some fictional lack of aptitude. I put in a certain level of effort and got what I needed, had I put in more work, I could have done better.

The 'lack of natural aptitude' story that some people put about is little more than an excuse for lack of effort and can often become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Really?

GaelMise

Jester252 wrote: »

Really?

Yep. Whats your point?

Jester252

GaelMise wrote: »

Yep. Whats your point?

read the bold section

rmacm

Jester252 wrote: »

Well that's because Irish is the only compulsory subject on the leaving cert.

That may not be entirely true...

English (mandatory)
Irish (mandatory with exceptions)
Maths (mandatory)
At least one Science subject
At least one other Language subject
1–3 other subjects

Quoted from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Certificate_(Ireland)

Jester252

rmacm wrote: »

That may not be entirely true...

English (mandatory)
Irish (mandatory with exceptions)
Maths (mandatory)
At least one Science subject
At least one other Language subject
1–3 other subjects

Quoted from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaving_Certificate_(Ireland)

English and Maths are required by 3rd level institutes not the government. NUIG require a 3rd language. Science subject are required for science and maths course, hence why it is down as a recommended.

November 2005 Enda Kenny asked the then Minister for Education (Mary Hanafin) a range of questions on subjects for the Leaving Cert.
Here is her response