equality in work question

Doom

I work in a company with a salary band, generally climbing up the band was based on good reviews and taking on extra duties,
I carry out the exact same work as my colleagues, in fact I carry out more duties than half of them and have had nothing but good reviews.
Some of them are at their band ceiling and can climb no more unless they move into management, I'm significantly paid less than most of the others by almost 20k for doing the exact same job, all our contracts and bands are the same, only difference is they are there longer (this has never been the base for progression in salary)
What's your opinions on this? I feel very unfairly treated in this area.

Wanderer2010

You need to provide a bit more information before any advice can be given: Is your job title the exact same as the people you say are 20k over you? What is the official company policy on pay rises? Is there a pay freeze? How many years experience do you need before being eligible for a pay rise? There are a lot of variables here, maybe give a bit more info before we can help.

dinnyirwin

Doom wrote: »

I work in a company with a salary band, generally climbing up the band was based on good reviews and taking on extra duties,
I carry out the exact same work as my colleagues, in fact I carry out more duties than half of them and have had nothing but good reviews.
Some of them are at their band ceiling and can climb no more unless they move into management, I'm significantly paid less than most of the others by almost 20k for doing the exact same job, all our contracts and bands are the same, only difference is they are there longer (this has never been the base for progression in salary)
What's your opinions on this? I feel very unfairly treated in this area.

Time to go where you will be paid better for your work.
If there is no chance of you leaving then they wont need to pay you anymore.

Doom

Job is exactly the same as the others, As I've said, I even undertake more duties than others, pay rises are not based on length of service, they are based on annual reviews, management haven't paid any in years, they decide this from year to year.

Sheldons Brain

management haven't paid any in years, they decide this from year to year.

This is your problem, with several increases missed for you which would have meant that you would have caught up on the old stagers by now. Time to have increases again.

dinnyirwin

Doom wrote: »

Job is exactly the same as the others, As I've said, I even undertake more duties than others, pay rises are not based on length of service, they are based on annual reviews, management haven't paid any in years, they decide this from year to year.

Pay rises are very simple. Dont believe all the rules and regulations they might be shoving down peoples throats. If you are worth more to them as an employee than as an ex-employee, they will pay you what you ask for. If you arent then you take what they give you.

nuckeythompson

Doom wrote: »

I work in a company with a salary band, generally climbing up the band was based on good reviews and taking on extra duties,
I carry out the exact same work as my colleagues, in fact I carry out more duties than half of them and have had nothing but good reviews.
Some of them are at their band ceiling and can climb no more unless they move into management, I'm significantly paid less than most of the others by almost 20k for doing the exact same job, all our contracts and bands are the same, only difference is they are there longer (this has never been the base for progression in salary)
What's your opinions on this? I feel very unfairly treated in this area.

Looks like they dont want you, you never mentioned if you were male or female , female recently married etc. I worked in recruitment for a while and the amount of clients requesting only male applications was unreal.

Doom

Male, about 15-20 yrs younger than most here

Doom

I get the feeling the company would like to keep me low paid for good and hopefully older, costlier employees will eventually retire, therefore reducing future salaries.
I was told before that if anyone is ever hired into our dept they will definitely not get the same employment terms as us, I feel they're doing it to me already.
Age discrimination.....?

nuckeythompson

looks like they want you to look for another job mate. when this type of thing happens in a job best thing to do is keep on the lookout for something better. never stay somewhere if your not wanted

Gone West

Doom wrote: »

I carry out the exact same work as my colleagues, in fact I carry out more duties than half of them

So you also do less duties than half of your colleagues?

Raises aren't granted, they are earned.
If your extra work is not being rewarded, look at the situation objectively. Are you actually adding value?
If you really are under paid, just change jobs, go somewhere that will value you.

Doom

Fuzzy wrote: »

So you also do less duties than half of your colleagues?

Raises aren't granted, they are earned.
If your extra work is not being rewarded, look at the situation objectively. Are you actually adding value?
If you really are under paid, just change jobs, go somewhere that will value you.

No one is here for a grammar lesson Fuzzy,
I work very hard and have given a lot more than my other colleagues in the last couple of years, I'm just annoyed to be consistently ignored for my extra Work, while my colleagues enjoy substantiality better wages.

davo10

Doom wrote: »

they are based on annual reviews, management haven't paid any in years, they decide this from year to year.

Am I reading this right, no one has got a pay rise in years including the people paid more than you?

Doom

Management just decide a week or two before and then just say, "well done everyone great year but no pay rises"
Now remember most of the people in my dept are at the top of the salary band already!

davo10

Doom wrote: »

Management just decide a week or two before and then just say, "well done everyone great year but no pay rises"
Now remember most of the people in my dept are at the top of the salary band already!

In the past, were they getting pay rises while you were not? If so, what reason did your employer give you for this?

yawhat!

Are they all in the same team as you?
Are you all working on the same projects?
How do you know they are earning an extra 20K a year?

Something quite doesn't add up.

Doom

davo10 wrote: »

In the past, were they getting pay rises while you were not? If so, what reason did your employer give you for this?

They're in company longer, during boom yrs they got up to the top of salary scale quickly

yawhat!

Doom wrote: »

They're in company longer, during boom yrs they got up to the top of salary scale quickly

Have you asked each and every one of them their salaries or something?

How do you know what they are making?

Did everyone write down on a piece of paper what they earn and hand it to you?

Doom

yawhat! wrote: »

Are they all in the same team as you?
Are you all working on the same projects?
How do you know they are earning an extra 20K a year?

Something quite doesn't add up.

Same team, same work (I do some extra duties), same contract, same terms & conditions, I know the salary scale and they don't mind telling me, also some of them agree that I'm been screwed

Gone West

Doom wrote: »

No one is here for a grammar lesson Fuzzy,
I work very hard and have given a lot more than my other colleagues in the last couple of years, I'm just annoyed to be consistently ignored for my extra Work, while my colleagues enjoy substantiality better wages.

There was no grammar lesson... you need to read the replies that people are sending you, and take it in.
From your responses, it seems that you are just looking for validation, and aren't addressing any of the points posed to you.

Doom

Fuzzy wrote: »

There was no grammar lesson... you need to read the replies that people are sending you, and take it in.
From your responses, it seems that you are just looking for validation, and aren't addressing any of the points posed to you.

?? What the f**k you on about???

davo10

Doom wrote: »

?? What the f**k you on about???

OP, in your first post you said you felt "unfairly treated" but everyone is being treated the same, no one is getting wage increases. Your colleagues are paid more because they were there longer, during the boom, new recruits are paid less than you because you will have been there longer than them. Should new recruits be paid the same as your colleagues at the top of the band if they do the same job?

I understand your frustration but I can't see how you are being treated unfairly.

Doom

Like I said, length of service is not the way salary progression is in this company, its by getting good annual reviews and carrying out more duties, I've done all this. ... at what point does a huge difference in pay become a case of unfair pay conditions

davo10

Doom wrote: »

Like I said, length of service is not the way salary progression is in this company, its by getting good annual reviews and carrying out more duties, I've done all this. ... at what point does a huge difference in pay become a case of unfair pay conditions

But you posted that no one is getting wage increases and that others got theirs by being there longer during the boom. Also you said new recruits are getting less than you, where exactly do you feel "unfair pay conditions" exist?

Surely if good annual reviews are necessary to get wage increases, then the more annual reviews the greater the number of increases so length of service does matter, unless that is that one good review this year deserves a €20k jump in wages.

I would expect good annual reviews to be a requirement to keep a job.

Doom

There has been no new recruits, I was told if there was, they would be on a lower salary scale and less benefits.....
If I have a salary scale surely I'm entiled to be able to progress, I been asked to give more and more each year on the suggestion of a pay rise.
Another issue is that when was was joining the company they indicated that it was easy to progress if I got good reviews.

davo10

Doom wrote: »

There has been no new recruits, I was told if there was, they would be on a lower salary scale and less benefits.....
If I have a salary scale surely I'm entiled to be able to progress, I been asked to give more and more each year on the suggestion of a pay rise.
Another issue is that when was was joining the company they indicated that it was easy to progress if I got good reviews.

No you are not "entitled" to pay increases, no one is unless it expressly says in your contract that you will be given one each year.

Your company has not paid increases to anyone, why would you feel more "entitled" than others?

Everyone in your company may be being asked to give more and more without a pay rise.

I think I'd be equally pissed off if I was one of your better paid colleagues, knowing that as I am at the top of my band, I cannot progress any further no matter what I do unless I'm promoted to management.

It seems obvious that you should ask for a pay rise, if they value you they will give it, if they feel that everyone is as committed as you and no one is getting a pay rise, then you can try progressing elsewhere.

Doom

As I've said, I feel unfairly paid for the work I do in comparison to my colleagues, I don't feel entiled to be paid the same immediately, in time? Yes...., ( it would be nice to get a pay rise at reasonable intervals) I was asking for opinions on this, and maybe at what stage would this situation be considered "unfairly paid to do the same job In the same dept" 5yrs, 10yrs?
I really don't get that the others would pissed off by not been able to earn anymore in this band, they are already very well paid.
They can apply for managing roles if they wanted

Stheno

Doom,

Without being personal, you post here regularly with various issues you have in your workplace.

I'd suggest that a. you need to find a workplace more suited to you, and b. with the amount of issues you've posted here, I'd suspect you are viewed with less than zeal by your management team, which will affect your payrises

That aside if your pay is as per your contract and it states that rises are discretionary based on whatever they are operating as they should.

Mrs OBumble

Doom wrote: »

As I've said, I feel unfairly paid for the work I do in comparison to my colleagues, I don't feel entiled to be paid the same immediately, in time? Yes...., ( it would be nice to get a pay rise at reasonable intervals) I was asking for opinions on this, and maybe at what stage would this situation be considered "unfairly paid to do the same job In the same dept" 5yrs, 10yrs?

It's irrelevant - unless the others are getting more money because of their age, sex, ethnicity .. or any one of the nine criteria that under which discrimination is not allowed.

There is no general requirement to pay people doing the same job equally.

And even so - you don't have as much experience as your current colleagues, and by defintion never will.

The only real comparison, for you, is what your current employer is prepared to pay you vs what another employer is willing to pay you.

You have clearly shown your current employer that you are willing to work for your current pay, so they have no incentive to pay you more.

Doom

Stheno wrote: »

Doom,

Without being personal, you post here regularly with various issues you have in your workplace.

I'd suggest that a. you need to find a workplace more suited to you, and b. with the amount of issues you've posted here, I'd suspect you are viewed with less than zeal by your management team, which will affect your payrises

That aside if your pay is as per your contract and it states that rises are discretionary based on whatever they are operating as they should.

Could you get anymore personal... you know **** all about how management view me, in fact I'm viewed very well within the company.
I have worked in many places, unfortunately this one has some very "as I view it" unfair practices, I'm not running to management with every issue, I do some digging on the issue and approach it with a reasonable manner.
I have been a shop steward previously and got on very well with both sides, the industry I'm in now happens to have a very different setup and its proved to be difficult to get straight answers, i've done my time as a union rep and am not to keen to get that involved again.
I work hard and well, and have been praised numerous times in side the company and outside, I just want to be equally respected in the salary stakes in a reasonable time scale.

Doom

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It's irrelevant - unless the others are getting more money because of their age, sex, ethnicity .. or any one of the nine criteria that under which discrimination is not allowed.

There is no general requirement to pay people doing the same job equally.

And even so - you don't have as much experience as your current colleagues, and by defintion never will.

The only real comparison, for you, is what your current employer is prepared to pay you vs what another employer is willing to pay you.

You have clearly shown your current employer that you are willing to work for your current pay, so they have no incentive to pay you more.

I am in fact more qualified in certain areas than others,(working in a different company) and on a par with the rest for other areas, this is the reason they hired me

davo10

Doom wrote: »

I am in fact more qualified in certain areas than others,(working in a different company) and on a par with the rest for other areas, this is the reason they hired me

I think this hinges on your belief that you are "entitled" to equal pay rather than a belief only that you deserve it.

You are not entitled to a pay rise, you are entitled to think you deserve it though. If there is a company pay freeze, everyone may think they deserve more but the company seems to have stated their policy on this, a policy that is applied equally to all employees.

This boils down to what you are worth to the company. If you are paid market rate then you have no grounds for feeling unfairly treated by your employer, the others are marely paid more because they are there longer, if you are paid below market rate and you feel someone will pay you more, then you have a decision to make.

So just to state again, you may feel you deserve a pay rise, you have no entitlement to one and if no one is getting a pay rise, you are not being unfairly treated.

the_syco

Doom wrote: »

Could you get anymore personal... you know **** all about how management view me, in fact I'm viewed very well within the company.

Although you may think that they think highly of you, they also seem to think that you won't "rock the boat" and thus won't raise your salary.

Doom wrote: »

I work hard and well, and have been praised numerous times in side the company and outside, I just want to be equally respected in the salary stakes in a reasonable time scale.

Although you can raise the salary easily, you can't lower it too easily. Thus your work colleagues probably won't get salary cuts as the employer knows he risks losing them if he does so. You... you will stay if they don't give you a raise. They seem to know this, and thus see no point in paying you more.

Mrs OBumble

Doom wrote: »

I am in fact more qualified in certain areas than others,(working in a different company) and on a par with the rest for other areas, this is the reason they hired me

And when they offered you the job, you must have been happy with the salary, or you woulldn't have accepted.

If you are no longer happy with it, then go get a job with the other company.

Ray Palmer

It seems really straight forward. You ask them for a raise regardless of what they have said about salary freezes and wages, leave if they don't give it to you and find a job paying more. You certainly have missed that length of service is a factor in how the process works.

However here is the reality matching your salary to another's does not mean you would be paid market rate. The people with higher wages are being paid a market rate from a different time which was probably when all wages were higher. Companies can not take salary off people every time this happens so they freeze wages until the level out again. This is how it works.

Just because you came in at a different market rate means you are paid less than them but it doesn't mean you are not paid fairly. It means they are paid better than current market rates. The fact you have been told a new person would get even less means you are overpaid in comparison to the market.

There are a few solutions:
1) Ask for a pay rise
2) Leave and find another job paying more
3) Just accept it

Overall you are expecting equity in something that has no connection in the way you think. It isn't what you pay them and I work here so I should be paid the same, it is what is the industry paying now?