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Underfloor Heating advice.

  • 28-02-2014 12:54am
    #1
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭


    Hello,

    I am putting underfloor heating downstairs and upstairs.
    I have been put on spot this afternoon by my builder and contractor in charge of doing my under floor heating.

    First, I have been advice to not put UFH under the kitchen\shower\bathtub\wardrobe, would you agree as the heat will be blocked and you don't want to heat the bottom of a fridge ?

    Second, instead to use Sand and cement to fill up above the pipe, I was advised to use easy screed, I read about it but is this a sale approach or this make really a different ?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chidorisai


Comments

  • #2
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    I put UFH everywhere in build #1. Never had any issue. Consider: under the kitchen units the air space is small, and heated quickly. And when the air is warmer than the floor it won't heat anymore. 1m away, in the open space of the kitchen the air is cooler than the tiled floor and the floor transfers from the floor to the room. It's just physics at work, and it is self-regulating. I don't think the sizes of areas you're talking about are hugely significant tbh. True about the fridge in principle, but I've a built-in one now since 1997 and it hasn't failed yet ! - but I would avoid it just keep the fridge compressor happy.

    In build #2 I didn't put it under dead spaces like the pantry, kitchen units. I did however under showers - I think a warm tray is nice to stand on !!

    I used sand/cement successfully in two houses, so it's worked for me. However, I do see and appreciate the difference the liquid ones have and I might do that next time. (Well, they do say it takes 3 houses to get it right !! ) Sand/cement is inclined to crack more imho.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #3
    BarneyMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    galwaytt wrote: »

    I used sand/cement successfully in two houses, so it's worked for me. However, I do see and appreciate the difference the liquid ones have and I might do that next time. (Well, they do say it takes 3 houses to get it right !! ) Sand/cement is inclined to crack more imho.

    What depth of sand/cement did you use? I'm installing a heat pump and maybe some day install PV cells and just wonder what's the ideal approach, i.e. 3/4 inch sand/cement or 2 inch liquid screed?


  • #4
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply galwaytt.
    when you say :
    In build #2 I didn't put it under dead spaces like the pantry, kitchen units. I did however under showers - I think a warm tray is nice to stand on !!

    Did you see a big difference from Build #1 and #2 ?

    thanks !


  • #5
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    chidorisai wrote: »
    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply galwaytt.
    when you say :
    In build #2 I didn't put it under dead spaces like the pantry, kitchen units. I did however under showers - I think a warm tray is nice to stand on !!

    Did you see a big difference from Build #1 and #2 ?

    thanks !

    A much bigger difference is the thickness of floor insulation. Build#2 has a minimum of 150mm of XPS. I don't think the difference is otherwise measurable.

    Oh, and, UFH under presses causes carrots to sprout and potatoes to grow tubers like mad !! :)

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #6
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    Hi,

    Thanks again.

    I am putting 300mm insulation so it should be good.
    So we are going to avoid putting UFH under wardrobe/kitchen...

    Now I am wondering if anybody has experience with easy screed... My understanding is that its easier to install and has better resistance to cracking...


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  • #7
    tedimc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 623 ✭✭✭tedimc


    No experience with easy screed myself, but a colleague of mine had it put down in his house on top of UFH.

    Apparently the installers made a balls up and didn't remove some top skin that formed and the screed never dried fully. When they went to tile the floor, the tiles could be lifted up by hand and pulled all the screed with them.

    Turned out to be a total mess - tiles had to be lifted, floor dug up, dust everywhere, messed up his kitchen due to him needing to wrap everything in plastic.

    Just make sure the people putting it in have worked with it before.


  • #8
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    anybody has any other nice story to share :) ?


  • #9
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    chidorisai wrote: »
    Hi,

    Thanks again.

    I am putting 300mm insulation so it should be good.
    So we are going to avoid putting UFH under wardrobe/kitchen...

    Now I am wondering if anybody has experience with easy screed... My understanding is that its easier to install and has better resistance to cracking...

    I wouldn't avoid the wardrobe. I think 300 is too much - what is compressive strength of insulation ? Too thick means screed cracks easier. .....btdt.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #10
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    I will need to check that with builder, I know normally it was going to put 150mm until I told him I want UFH and he check with couple installer and all the of advise him to put 300mm ....


  • #11
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    chidorisai wrote: »
    I will need to check that with builder, I know normally it was going to put 150mm until I told him I want UFH and he check with couple installer and all the of advise him to put 300mm ....

    Someone is guessing methinks (not you).

    How are your head heights at doors etc? What levels were they built to ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • #12
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    This is a new build, not a retrofit. so they have to dig more to be able to have enough space for 150mm concrete + 300mm insulation + UFH + tiles and for first floor they raising the height to leave enough space for the insulation + UFH.


  • #13
    BarneyMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    chidorisai wrote: »
    This is a new build, not a retrofit. so they have to dig more to be able to have enough space for 150mm concrete + 300mm insulation + UFH + tiles and for first floor they raising the height to leave enough space for the insulation + UFH.

    300mm of insulation still seems a lot. What type of insulation are they talking about?


  • #14
    hexosan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    I could see the sense in 200mm but 300mm is over kill if it's PIR insulation.


  • #15
    chidorisai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 ✭chidorisai


    polyiso insulation so PIR I presume


  • #16
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    chidorisai wrote: »
    polyiso insulation so PIR I presume

    Not a fan of PIR under ground - trends to absorb moisture and u-value plummets.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #17
    BarneyMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Not a fan of PIR under ground - trends to absorb moisture and u-value plummets.

    Surely it's not under the ground? Do you mean moisture or actual water seeping into it? What's a good alternative?


  • #18
    hexosan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    EPS is the alternative


  • #19
    BarneyMc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭BarneyMc


    hexosan wrote: »
    EPS is the alternative

    Poorer U value?


  • #20
    hexosan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Only slightly. 200mm eps is the equivalent of 160mm PIR plus it's a lot cheaper than PIR
    Each have there own applications.


  • #21
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    hexosan wrote: »
    EPS is the alternative

    Or XPS is even better.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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  • #22
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    BarneyMc wrote: »
    Poorer U value?

    ... Not when it's wet.... ;)

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #23
    froshtyv
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 225 ✭✭froshtyv


    chidorisai wrote: »
    Hello,

    I am putting underfloor heating downstairs and upstairs.
    I have been put on spot this afternoon by my builder and contractor in charge of doing my under floor heating.

    First, I have been advice to not put UFH under the kitchen\shower\bathtub\wardrobe, would you agree as the heat will be blocked and you don't want to heat the bottom of a fridge ?

    Second, instead to use Sand and cement to fill up above the pipe, I was advised to use easy screed, I read about it but is this a sale approach or this make really a different ?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chidorisai

    When you say advised not to put it in the kitchen i assume you mean under the kitchen units?
    This is common practice for food etc..
    The UFH is usually worked around these units and fridge etc.

    If your using easy screed, dont skimp on the thickness id be looking for at least 60mm


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