BVD calves: lads holding onto them!!

Mac Taylor

Reading the FJ tonight and 3,839 positive pi calves tested in 2013 have been retained on farms. Would you/have you held on to pi calves?
Thankfully, none here but would get rid of. It should be mandatory to slaughter all pi infected animals regardless.

Timmaay

If they make it mandatory they will have to compensate the farmers. Utter madness keeping a PI, in the long run it will die anyways, and spread BVD to other animals on the farm. I doubt if anyone is going to be brave enough to admit to keeping them on this forum, but if you know of any farmers keeping ones, yous should do your best to convince them that its a stupid stupid move and only going to destroy theirown herd longterm.

J.O. Farmer

It's not a good idea holding on to them. If they do they need to be isolated especially from pregnant females. They have to go as veal but I don't don't think they would thrive enough and won't live long enough or thrive enough for conventional beef. It seems a no brainer to cull but easier said than done with a healthy looking calf.

Livestockmad

Timmaay wrote: »

If they make it mandatory they will have to compensate the farmers. Utter madness keeping a PI, in the long run it will die anyways, and spread BVD to other animals on the farm. I doubt if anyone is going to be brave enough to admit to keeping them on this forum, but if you know of any farmers keeping ones, yous should do your best to convince them that its a stupid stupid move and only going to destroy theirown herd longterm.

I had 3 two years ago.. throve well for about 6-8 months and I was pumping meal into them.. they were improving then all of a sudden went way back and I ended up shooting them.. I had them well separated from everything else. I had non since.. if I could go back I would shoot them alot sooner.

grazeaway

Was chatting to a neighbour in the mart a few weeks ago and this topic came up told me he had 4 last year. Calves looked perfect and were fine and hardy. Last year was a bad year for him with the fodder crisis and all so he decided to cull the calves and cows but only in the autumn. They were all sent down to his glen field for the year away from the rest of the herd and neighbours. Once the calves stayed suckling their mothers they stayed fine. Slaughtered at 10 months, then the cows were given extra feed before going to the factory a few weeks later. He reckoned it was a gamble but the cash from the calves and cows helped pay for the extra fodder he had to buy last spring. As he said he will know this year if his gamble paid off.

Not something I would be able to do here while I can isolate cattle into a small paddock for a few weeks wouldn't have enough room to be able to do something like that for a few months.

LivInt20

Animal Health Ireland and the Farmers Journal reporting about the "horrific story of one farmer who kept a PI calf in 2012 and had 26 PI calves born in 2013"

That is reason enough to get rid of all PIs. ASAP

tanko

LivInt20 wrote: »

Animal Health Ireland and the Farmers Journal reporting about the "horrific story of one farmer who kept a PI calf in 2012 and had 26 PI calves born in 2013"

That is reason enough to get rid of all PIs. ASAP

I have to laugh when I hear about farmers "isolating" pi animals away from their other stock including pregnant cows to fatten them. As far as I can see its extremely easily spread on a farm and between farms. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish. PI's should be got rid of asap in my opinion.

invicta

Shot 9 of them (sucklers) last November. The hardest thing I ever did....

greysides

tanko wrote: »

I have to laugh when I hear about farmers "isolating" pi animals away from their other stock including pregnant cows to fatten them. As far as I can see its extremely easily spread on a farm and between farms. Talk about penny wise and pound foolish. PI's should be got rid of asap in my opinion.

It spreads in dung, saliva, respiratory secretions, tears, blood, milk, urine, semen, shed dander and probably ear wax too.

One of main the reasons for the lack of thrive is the amount of energy expended in the body by the virus replicating itself.

It will spread directly or indirectly using the materials above.

Isolation....? My opinion, think Foot and Mouth Disease virus.

bbam

If holding these numbers continues then department will make disposal compulsory and rightly so.

I can't see the need for compensation and lads need to loose the notion that they must be compensated. This is something dogging the industry and those holding these calves are doing so through ignorance and stubbornness.

biddy2013

bbam wrote: »

If holding these numbers continues then department will make disposal compulsory and rightly so.

I can't see the need for compensation and lads need to loose the notion that they must be compensated. This is something dogging the industry and those holding these calves are doing so through ignorance and stubbornness.

its always the way in everything there are those who will follow to the letter of the law and those who think they are pulling a fast one who are making a mess of the whole thing.

td5man

Slightly off topic, i've been testing for bvd for three years and every sample has come back negative.
Do i need to vaccinate the cows?

greysides

td5man wrote: »

Slightly off topic, i've been testing for bvd for three years and every sample has come back negative.
Do i need to vaccinate the cows?

The answer to that isn't clear cut. Other than to say it's always safer to vaccinate than not to.

So it becomes a risk assessment....

do you buy in? Cows? Heifers? Bull? Replacing a dead calf?
do you have your own machinery for spreading slurry or dung?
do your neighbours have cattle?
do they put down their PIs?
how good are your fences?
what people visit your farm?
are you the only inhabitant of your own island?

And so on.

IMO, anyone who has been vaccinating probably should continue to do so. They have an investment to protect. Also, they either have had a problem or were 'careful' people to start with so they can see why they should.

The hope would be that eventually the answer would become 'NO' but as we can see from the topic of this thread the infidels (unbelievers) are not helping matters.

There is no technical impediment to eradicating this disease from Ireland. Only human ones.

td5man

greysides wrote: »

The answer to that isn't clear cut. Other than to say it's always safer to vaccinate than not to.

So it becomes a risk assessment....

do you buy in? Cows? Heifers? Bull? Replacing a dead calf?
do you have your own machinery for spreading slurry or dung?
do your neighbours have cattle?
do they put down their PIs?
how good are your fences?
what people visit your farm?
are you the only inhabitant of your own island?

And so on.

IMO, anyone who has been vaccinating probably should continue to do so. They have an investment to protect. Also, they either have had a problem or were 'careful' people to start with so they can see why they should.

The hope would be that eventually the answer would become 'NO' but as we can see from the topic of this thread the infidels (unbelievers) are not helping matters.

There is no technical impediment to eradicating this disease from Ireland. Only human ones.

Thanks for that, was thinking i should continue to vaccinate.

Injuryprone

Can't understand why herds with PIs are not locked up while the PI is still on the farm. Any animal sold off such a farm may not be a PI itself but May have been in a pen beside one and may be just as infectious.

saranac1

If the bull you used on your cows had bvd and you didn't know this when you bought him does this mean that all cows and calves that he bulled will have bvd?????

KatyMac

Injuryprone wrote: »

Can't understand why herds with PIs are not locked up while the PI is still on the farm. Any animal sold off such a farm may not be a PI itself but May have been in a pen beside one and may be just as infectious.

Should be as hard to have them on your land as it is to have a TB infected/inconclusive animal. It's crazy that they are left indefinitely. I still wait on tenterhooks until I get the text that all is okay. I'd want to get rid of a positive calf immediately, wouldn't it only get harder as time passes?

J.O. Farmer

saranac1 wrote: »

If the bull you used on your cows had bvd and you didn't know this when you bought him does this mean that all cows and calves that he bulled will have bvd?????

It depends on whether he was PI or just transiently infected.
Even if he is PI the cows will be okay. They may pick up BVD but they will recover and gain immunity.
I am unsure if BVD can be passed to the calf from the bulls semen but the fact that the bull will have been running with the cows increases the chance that cows will be infected in the crucial phase of pregnancy resulting in PI calves.
If the bull is not PI depending on the timing of his infection you may not have any PI calves.

Crossakiel

It amazes me that farmers are not getting the message regarding PI calves, http://www.agriland.ie/news/retention-bvd-pi-calves-farms-increases/

Was talking to a vet a few weeks back and he said that he had visited a farm recently and that the farmer told him he had used the ear of a dead calf that he knew wasn't infected as the sample for all his other calves. Do these guys not realise the problems that this cause for their own herds as well as any other poor fecker that might buy the animals?

munkus

Crossakiel wrote: »

It amazes me that farmers are not getting the message regarding PI calves, http://www.agriland.ie/news/retention-bvd-pi-calves-farms-increases/

What kind of <mod snip> are the department, everyone in Ireland going through the expense and has so of this testing without having mandatory disposal of the animal. Was that so fu#kin hard to do? Herds should be locked up like TB.

whelan2

munkus wrote: »

What kind of <mod snip> are the department, everyone in Ireland going through the expense and has so of this testing without having mandatory disposal of the animal. Was that so fu#kin hard to do? Herds should be locked up like TB.

its ahi thats running the scheme not the dept.... only realising after 3 years of being in the scheme that by doing this scheme as it is now we will never get rid of bvd :mad:

munkus

whelan2 wrote: »

its ahi thats running the scheme not the dept.... only realising after 3 years of being in the scheme that by doing this scheme as it is now we will never get rid of bvd :mad:

Never knew that. How have they the authority to impose the testing in the first place if they are an "industry led partnership group"?

whelan2

they also run the johnes scheme, dont think theres anything stopping anyone selling a johnes positive animal to another farmer, which is wrong

frazzledhome

munkus wrote: »

Never knew that. How have they the authority to impose the testing in the first place if they are an "industry led partnership group"?

I was excited about it at first. As the scheme progresses I conclude its another job for the boys. Was approached to enter Johnes pilot, wouldn't bother my whole. It's a pity AHI hasn't more teeth

whelan2

frazzledhome wrote: »

I was excited about it at first. As the scheme progresses I conclude its another job for the boys. Was approached to enter Johnes pilot, wouldn't bother my whole. It's a pity AHI hasn't more teeth

i did the johnes scheme, was very surprised to find a few bought in animals where positive, i have something to work off now. Better than working blind, although a positive still might not be a positive and a negative could still be a positive

frazzledhome

whelan2 wrote: »

i did the johnes scheme, was very surprised to find a few bought in animals where positive, i have something to work off now. Better than working blind, although a positive still might not be a positive and a negative could still be a positive

That's it, how do we know what's pos or not? So many factors influencing test. I'd have done if I thought there was a chance of a cert if clear as I export heifers I'd have entered. They couldn't say what plan was

whelan2

frazzledhome wrote: »

That's it, how do we know what's pos or not? So many factors influencing test. I'd have done if I thought there was a chance of a cert if clear as I export heifers I'd have entered. They couldn't say what plan was

The main reason i did it was to know what biestings to dump. Heifers biestings is dumped anyway. I feed rotavec biestings to calves. I dont think theres any point testing animals you are buying/selling under 3 year old as its not accurate

Kovu

Crossakiel wrote: »

Was talking to a vet a few weeks back and he said that he had visited a farm recently and that the farmer told him he had used the ear of a dead calf that he knew wasn't infected as the sample for all his other calves. Do these guys not realise the problems that this cause for their own herds as well as any other poor fecker that might buy the animals?

I'm assuming that the vet who told you would have definitely reported this case to the department if they suspected the story to be true. And that the farmer in question will be prosecuted for false samples? Because knowledge of illegal actions and all that is frowned upon :pac:

farawaygrass

did anyome even hear of any lad that kept a positive calf that was able to slaughter it? few kept around here too the first year, learnt their lesson the hard way and didnt keep the second year

moy83

farawaygrass wrote: »

did anyome even hear of any lad that kept a positive calf that was able to slaughter it? few kept around here too the first year, learnt their lesson the hard way and didnt keep the second year

I know a lad that has two sent into the factory , they were small but he sent them as soon as the factory would take them .
We have one here over a year old now , he is back the mountain with a fr bullock we couldnt sell . I suppose we should be loading him with nuts now and try to get him into the factory asap but the father is in no rush to get rid of him so isn't givin him anything .

whelan2

Crossakiel wrote: »

It amazes me that farmers are not getting the message regarding PI calves, http://www.agriland.ie/news/retention-bvd-pi-calves-farms-increases/

Was talking to a vet a few weeks back and he said that he had visited a farm recently and that the farmer told him he had used the ear of a dead calf that he knew wasn't infected as the sample for all his other calves. Do these guys not realise the problems that this cause for their own herds as well as any other poor fecker that might buy the animals?

would the reading not have been the same then for all the calves, isnt it something like 3 decimal places ?????

Crossakiel

Don't know, as a beef finished I am usually the guy that ends up with the PI cattle. Its really frustrating as after about one week on your own farm you can identify them straight away.

mf240

Add on donedeal looking for bvd calves. This is hardly legit is it?

greysides

No, they can't be sold.

onyerbikepat

greysides wrote: »

No, they can't be sold.

Maybe he's a legit animal disposable guy.

Crossakiel

More on retention rates, especially on beef farms - bloody crazy!!

http://www.agriland.ie/news/bvd-positive-calves-numbers-dropping-retention-rates-worrying/

Kielacross

Padraig Shevlin had an interesting piece about marts and disease risk on the Farmers Journal website recently

whelan2

got a text from ifa this evening....reminder to qualify for E120 BVD compensation & beef genomic scheme farmers with PI calves must remove them from their herd by tomorrow 31st july