What to do about making Canal towpath access more cycle friendly?

DrGuy

I started riding along the Royal Canal between Drumcondra and Ashtown, and find the "kissing gates" quite obnoxious. Anyone know who decided these were a good idea?

tempnam

I'd say whoever was sick of skangers flying around on motorbikes.

How heavy is your bike that you can't lift it over these gates?

fiacha

they help keep horses , quads and motorbikes off the towpath. unfortunately, they also stop others from using it. Are they wide enough for wheelchair access ?

I don't find them a hassle on any of my bikes ( it takes seconds to get through). Being a shared path, i'm never going at any real speed there anyway. I have however seen people with trailers failing to get through.

At the moment, they are setup to protect pedestrians. i don't know what they will be using on the new corridor they are currently working on.

DrGuy

It's more of an annoyance at this point, but I could see it becoming a safety issue if I were to ride with my son on his seat. I'd have them replaced with simple bollards. Also, the entrances to said paths need signage stating basic rules for the path, e.g.:

1. No unauthorised motor vehicles or horses- anyone caught using it is liable for a €300 to €3000, 30 days in jail, and forfeiture of said vehicle or horse for said violations.
2. No unleashed dogs.
3. No distracted walking, cycling, rollerblading - this includes listening to music on headphones or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).
4. Stay to the left when possible.
5. Ride single file.

They should also have cycle-mounted garda patrolling the canals- it would make them safer.

buffalo

Gardai to stop people looking at their mobiles while walking... yep, that's reasonable.

DrGuy

I'm more worried about people on vehicles, but distracted walking does cause accidents. If you're on a path of any kind, you need to be alert. If you want to Facebook, text, or tweet you can do that from the side of the towpath and out of the way of everyone else.

RayCun

Maybe the pedestrians could wear high-vis too?

07Lapierre

6. Walk single file ( keep left)

rollingscone

I will reply to this thread once I've put my typing helmet on.

feck sake lads

DrGuy wrote: »

It's more of an annoyance at this point, but I could see it becoming a safety issue if I were to ride with my son on his seat. I'd have them replaced with simple bollards. Also, the entrances to said paths need signage stating basic rules for the path, e.g.:

1. No unauthorised motor vehicles or horses- anyone caught using it is liable for a €300 to €3000, 30 days in jail, and forfeiture of said vehicle or horse for said violations.
2. No unleashed dogs.
3. No distracted walking, cycling, rollerblading - this includes listening to music on headphones or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).
4. Stay to the left when possible.
5. Ride single file.

They should also have cycle-mounted garda patrolling the canals- it would make them safer.

what planet are you from.

RobertFoster

07Lapierre wrote: »

6. Walk single file ( keep left)

7. Fun not permitted.


I've not cycled either canal, but if the kissing gates are anything like the ones in Tolka Valley Park (the Glasnevin end at least) where you have to dismount and play bike Tetris, I'd rather stick to the road.

Mycroft H

feck sake lads wrote: »

what planet are you from.

The plantet 'no craic' in the buzkillington solar system.

ThisRegard

DrGuy wrote: »

I1. No unauthorised motor vehicles or horses- anyone caught using it is liable for a €300 to €3000, 30 days in jail, and forfeiture of said vehicle or horse for said violations.
2. No unleashed dogs.
3. No distracted walking, cycling, rollerblading - this includes listening to music on headphones or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).
4. Stay to the left when possible.
5. Ride single file.

They should also have cycle-mounted garda patrolling the canals- it would make them safer.

Sure why not close them completely.

monument

I'll just ignore the post about rules...

Dublin City Council are designing an upgrade of the canal for cyclists -- last time I checked, it should be going to part 8 planning this year.

Along this section you could mark one side of the canal as mainly for cyclists (eg possibly keep kissing gates etc on the other side and only include a narrower walking path on the cycling side).

The section is used a lot for walking (mainly on the north side) and I don't think mixing modes will work here at all (yes, I'm generally against such mixing, but I'd see this as more problematic than normal).

London has a lot of problems with the mixing of cyclists and walkers/runners/etc on their canal, and we're going to run into the same problems if we try to mix modes on the busier sections.

DrGuy

monument wrote: »

I'll just ignore the post about rules...

Dublin City Council are designing an upgrade of the canal for cyclists -- last time I checked, it should be going to part 8 planning this year.

Along this section you could mark one side of the canal as mainly for cyclists (eg possibly keep kissing gates etc on the other side and only include a narrower walking path on the cycling side).

The section is used a lot for walking (mainly on the north side) and I don't think mixing modes will work here at all (yes, I'm generally against such mixing, but I'd see this as more problematic than normal).

London has a lot of problems with the mixing of cyclists and walkers/runners/etc on their canal, and we're going to run into the same problems if we try to mix modes on the busier sections.

That's good to know about the plan, I'd like to get a look at it.

I agree that it's better to separate out pedestrians and cyclists when possible. I've run into similar problems with mixing in the Washington, DC area. I do think there should be some sort of posted rules (whether enforced or not) as they can encourage safer, more courteous behaviour on mixed trails. There were a number of cases where people nearly caused accidents because they chose to ride side by side on a narrow path rather than single file, or ignore cyclists requests to move over. In the case of the towpath, someone could easily end up in the canal or a deep ditch, so a little signage wouldn't hurt anyone.

The headphones issue is particularly irksome, because people can't hear you when you tell them you're coming up. It also means they can't hear a potential assailant coming up from behind.

nomdeboardie

DrGuy wrote: »

That's good to know about the plan, I'd like to get a look at it.

I agree that it's better to separate out pedestrians and cyclists when possible. I've run into similar problems with mixing in the Washington, DC area. I do think there should be some sort of posted rules (whether enforced or not) as they can encourage safer, more courteous behaviour on mixed trails. There were a number of cases where people nearly caused accidents because they chose to ride side by side on a narrow path rather than single file, or ignore cyclists requests to move over. In the case of the towpath, someone could easily end up in the canal or a deep ditch, so a little signage wouldn't hurt anyone.

The headphones issue is particularly irksome, because people can't hear you when you tell them you're coming up. It also means they can't hear a potential assailant coming up from behind.

This is why I always wear a hat helmet with rear-directed ear-trumpets and rearview mirror when walking. Anywhere.

Surely these should be mandatory

rollingscone

650Ginge

DrGuy wrote: »

It's more of an annoyance at this point, but I could see it becoming a safety issue if I were to ride with my son on his seat. I'd have them replaced with simple bollards. Also, the entrances to said paths need signage stating basic rules for the path, e.g.:

1. No unauthorised motor vehicles or horses- anyone caught using it is liable for a €300 to €3000, 30 days in jail, and forfeiture of said vehicle or horse for said violations.
2. No unleashed dogs.
3. No distracted walking, cycling, rollerblading - this includes listening to music on headphones or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).
4. Stay to the left when possible.
5. Ride single file.

They should also have cycle-mounted garda patrolling the canals- it would make them safer.

Sounds like you need you own private planet some place where you just make yourself miserable and don't get to inflict you dictatorship on everyone else.

Mark Tapley

nomdeboardie wrote: »

This is why I always wear a hat helmet with rear-directed ear-trumpets and rearview mirror when walking. Anywhere.

Surely these should be mandatory

Tin foil hats should be mandatory just to be on the safe side.

nomdeboardie

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Tin foil hats should be mandatory just to be on the safe side.

Hmm...could do with some protection from all the ANT+ signals all right

Wishbone Ash

DrGuy wrote: »

....or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).....

If you have "issues" with that then you need help. (Reminds me of those adverts in newspapers in the 1970's warning against walking and reading newspapers).

(...and outside of the US, who uses the term "cellphone"?)

buffalo

DrGuy wrote: »

3. No distracted walking, cycling, rollerblading - this includes listening to music on headphones or staring at one's cellphone while walking (I've had issues with these in the past 24 hours).

It's getting really close to Friday, so I was just wondering what happens if I'm walking and get distracted by someone cycling past - do I need to stop walking and stand completely still, lest I commit the crime of distracted walking?

If I'm cycling and I get distracted by a hot jogger ahead, do I hit the brakes? Will my somersaulting over the handlebars distract everyone else from their cellphones? And if that happens, which distraction is the greater offence?

Cookie_Monster

buffalo wrote: »

If I'm cycling and I get distracted by a hot jogger ahead, do I hit the brakes? Will my somersaulting over the handlebars distract everyone else from their cellphones? And if that happens, which distraction is the greater offence?

depends on the chain reaction of distraction you cause. If a bus ended up in the canal because the driver was distracted by a crashing motorist who was distracted by a whole load of pedestrians freezing because they were distracted by you flipping you'd be in trouble! Though if you can legitimatly prove the jogger was hot she might have to take all the blame

bambergbike

DrGuy wrote: »

if I were to ride with my son on his seat...

What about if you were to ride with your son on his own little bike? Do you want a garda to leap out of the bushes and confiscate the little un's vehicle if he gets distracted and drifts into the middle of the path rather than sticking to the left?

rollingscone

bambergbike wrote: »

What about if you were to ride with your son on his own little bike? Do you want a garda to leap out of the bushes and confiscate the little un's vehicle if he gets distracted and drifts into the middle of the path rather than sticking to the left?

You want to put a CHILD on a bicycle? You murderer!

DrGuy

650Ginge wrote: »

Sounds like you need you own private planet some place where you just make yourself miserable and don't get to inflict you dictatorship on everyone else.

When I am Overlord there will be laser turrets stationed along the canals to shoot violators, and you will all suffer harshly for your insolence.

feck sake lads

DrGuy wrote: »

When I am Overlord there will be laser turrets stationed along the canals to shoot violators, and you will all suffer harshly for your insolence.

good on ya dr guy i think you left yourself open for micky taking, but is all in good humour no offence intended.:)

01Surveyor

Kissing gates are easy peasy if you stand the bike vertically and wheel it through on the back wheel.
If you are really handy you might even be able to stay on the bike while doing it...

DrGuy

I can get through most kissing gates in 5-10 seconds without having to lift the bike up or dismount. That said, they're still a royal pain in the arse. I am still in favor of laser turrets to shoot offending motorized vehicles.

Seaneh

Why not just use pillars to stop cars? much easier to install and walkers and cyclists can just go through them?
You could make them so that they are too narrow for moto's but wide enough for push bikes.

DrGuy

The argument I heard was that bollards (the technical term for those pillars) were ineffective at stopping motorbikes or quad vehicles owned by some of the more questionable types that live near the canal. Hence my suggestion for laser turrets with a thermal infrared tracking system.

However, the canal towpath does need some improvements so it can be a better mixed-use path, like possibly lane markings or the likes to better control the flow of pedestrians and cycles. That said, I've noticed that pedestrians generally don't respect bike lanes elsewhere.

Bloggsie

Weepsie wrote: »

Id remove the canal. I managed to go head first into it today as the front wheel kinda slid on a muddy portion.

a bit ironic as i was avoiding the speed bumps a bit before phibsborough.

here's a radical idea, make it a cycle only section during certain hours of the day so cyclists could use it for a commute corridor to & from work, if any else gets on with out a bike during these times they get the laser turrets up the jacksie!

Páid

I use the Grand Canal Greenway most days. Some time ago SDCC introduced semi-circle shaped gates for cyclists and these are far better than the kissing gates. They are slightly inconvenient but they prevent some but not all unwanted hazards.

It is still possible to get horses through the gates. There is currently one near the Kylemore Road intersection grazing on the grass tied with a rope across the path. This section is covered in horse feces and the rope is a hazard to cyclists using the path after dark.

There are rules posted very rarely along the path (see the top right of the photo). I apologise for the quality, it's taken from a video. From memory the sign states that cyclists must give way to pedestrians at all times and you must pass them slowly (or words to that effect). I will take a better photo of the sign on my way home later (or maybe tomorrow on my way to work).

idiottje

I use the Grand Canal also. Improvements for me would be a line painted in the middle for cyclists and walkers with a big outline cyclist on the bike one, and the usual adult and child walker outline in the walking one painted every 50 mtrs or so. However, as the Phoenix Park and Clontarf lanes show, people tend to ignore them. Put the cyclists away from the canal to allow people to fish.

The biggest improvement I think is to employ a security company to have a couple of pairs of security officers to cycle along the Greenway on a regular basis from lets say 8 until 8, like those chaps on the Luas. The video cameras are no deterrent to poor behaviour what so ever. The visual of this solution would be of huge benefit.

I find the gates on the canal a better solution than the ones on the Royal Canal, but youves do use them to act the maggot and be a nuisance from time to time.