USA visitor here? entered illegally?

Stinicker

My cousin has visited the country since Sunday. His mother, father and himself flew from the USA into Belfast, hired a car and drove to Co. Monaghan where they crossed the border somewhere. They have a Northern Irish registered car rented from Belfast which they have rented to return in Shannon. They leave from Shannon next week but have been in the Republic of Ireland all week without having entered officially. What will happen to them in Shannon when they leave?

My aunt and her husband are both Irish born but travelling on American passports. My cousin their son is American born and travelling on an American passport. If they had travelled in on Irish passports there would not be an issue but with their American passports and there having been no record of their entry into the state I wonder could it cause an issue. They don't have Irish passports currently.

They are frequent travelers to Ireland and don't want any problems when they return again most likely next summer. They normally fly in and out of Shannon but chose to fly to Belfast as it was cheaper and nearer to their relations in Monaghan.

galwayjohn89

I'd have presumed once they were cleared into the EU they could travel freely. Can't see there being any issue at all. Its very common.

2Mad2BeMad

Stinicker wrote: »

My cousin has visited the country since Sunday. His mother, father and himself flew from the USA into Belfast, hired a car and drove to Co. Monaghan where they crossed the border somewhere. They have a Northern Irish registered car rented from Belfast which they have rented to return in Shannon. They leave from Shannon next week but have been in the Republic of Ireland all week without having entered officially. What will happen to them in Shannon when they leave?

My aunt and her husband are both Irish born but travelling on American passports. My cousin their son is American born and travelling on an American passport. If they had travelled in on Irish passports there would not be an issue but with their American passports and there having been no record of their entry into the state I wonder could it cause an issue. They don't have Irish passports currently.

They are frequent travelers to Ireland and don't want any problems when they return again most likely next summer. They normally fly in and out of Shannon but chose to fly to Belfast as it was cheaper and nearer to their relations in Monaghan.

once your cleared too travel within the EU
you can go anywere within the eu
of course though you must have all documents ready for any borders your crossing into other countrys like passport visa's etc...

Stinicker

Vuzuggu wrote: »

I'd have presumed once they were cleared into the EU they could travel freely. Can't see there being any issue at all. Its very common.

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

once your cleared too travel within the EU
you can go anywere within the eu
of course though you must have all documents ready for any borders your crossing into other countrys like passport visa's etc...

I'm not too sure of this, Ireland or the UK for that matter are not part of schengen so e.g. you were a Nigerian you would need two separate visa for Ireland and for the UK and if said Nigerian decided to visit France he would need a Schengen Visa and once admitted to the Schengen Area he was free to roam around most of continental Europe.

My cousin as an American citizen does not need a visa for either the UK or Ireland and also has Visa free entry schengen, but if travelling from Ireland to the UK or from Ireland to the Schengen Area would have his American passport stamped to record his arrival and departure in the country.

Stheno

Stinicker wrote: »

I'm not too sure of this, Ireland or the UK for that matter are not part of schengen so e.g. you were a Nigerian you would need two separate visa for Ireland and for the UK and if said Nigerian decided to visit France he would need a Schengen Visa and once admitted to the Schengen Area he was free to roam around most of continental Europe.

My cousin as an American citizen does not need a visa for either the UK or Ireland and also has Visa free entry schengen, but if travelling from Ireland to the UK or from Ireland to the Schengen Area would have his American passport stamped to record his arrival and departure in the country.

Ireland and the UK have a common travel agreement in place which is why we don't need passports to visit and vice versa

HeidiHeidi

Stheno wrote: »

Ireland and the UK have a common travel agreement in place which is why we don't need passports to visit and vice versa

The CTA is only freely available to citizens of those countries though.....

ardmacha

First of all there is no exit control at Irish airports, so it doesn't matter how they got here.
But in general this is common and not worthy of note in any case, as people not requiring visas arrive and leave from different parts of the UK/Ireland Common Travel area every day of the week.

coylemj

With the best will in the world, if a US tourist who is legitimately visiting NI travels south across the border, who is he supposed to report to in order to get a visa for the ROI? There's no security or customs on the border these days and there has never been anything remotely resembling an immigration check.

Can't see them getting any grief in Shannon, we roll out the red carpet for US tourists here so they'll probably get a free Irish Coffee, a leprechaun keyring and a 'Slan Leat' in Shannon!

Sheldons Brain

coylemj wrote: »

With the best will in the world, if a US tourist who is legitimately visiting NI travels south across the border, who is he supposed to report to in order to get a visa for the ROI? There's no security or customs on the border these days and there has never been anything remotely resembling an immigration check.

Can't see them getting any grief in Shannon, we roll out the red carpet for US tourists here so they'll probably get a free Irish Coffee, a leprechaun keyring and a 'Slan Leat' in Shannon!

Exactly. What an odd thread.

hfallada

coylemj wrote: »

With the best will in the world, if a US tourist who is legitimately visiting NI travels south across the border, who is he supposed to report to in order to get a visa for the ROI? There's no security or customs on the border these days and there has never been anything remotely resembling an immigration check.

Can't see them getting any grief in Shannon, we roll out the red carpet for US tourists here so they'll probably get a free Irish Coffee, a leprechaun keyring and a 'Slan Leat' in Shannon!

As far I know you have to go to a Garda station and sign in. There is no security as it is not needed. But you have still entered a foreign country. I know if you have an Irish working visa and enter the UK eg NI without a holiday visa and got stopped by the police. You can and will get deported.

Ireland may not have a border crossing but they are two different states with different laws, governments and visas

Sheldons Brain

As far I know you have to go to a Garda station and sign in. There is no security as it is not needed. But you have still entered a foreign country.

there is no such obligation on persons not requiring an Irish visa.
If you believe there is such a regulation please point to the Statutory Instrument or other regulation indicating this.

coylemj

hfallada wrote: »

As far I know you have to go to a Garda station and sign in. There is no security as it is not needed. But you have still entered a foreign country.

You have not entered a 'foreign' country. Going across the border in either direction is not recognised by either authority as entering a 'foreign' country. That's why there has never been immigration controls on the border - for people going in either direction.

And when was the last time the Gardai arrested an American tourist coming from NI because he didn't have a visa?

hfallada wrote: »

Ireland may not have a border crossing but they are two different states with different laws, governments and visas

Ever hear of the common travel area?

HeidiHeidi

coylemj wrote: »

You have not entered a 'foreign' country. Going across the border in either direction is not recognised by either authority as entering a 'foreign' country. That's why there has never been immigration controls on the border - for people going in either direction.

And when was the last time the Gardai arrested an American tourist coming from NI because he didn't have a visa?



Ever hear of the common travel area?

Common Travel Area can only be availed of by citizens of either country, anyone else is obliged to be compliant in terms of visas etc. The fact that you're entitled to be in NI doesn't mean you're entitled to come into ROI. Or vice versa, obviously.

There used to be occasional checks on the trains down from Belfast by immigration officers - not sure if the personnel are there any more to do those, so don't know if they happen any more, but I'm assuming they still could.

ETA - I have no idea what situation in theory the OP's relatives would be in in terms of visa requirements, just commenting on the CTA.

Sheldons Brain

I have no idea what situation in theory the OP's relatives would be in in terms of visa requirements

You could read the thread!

coylemj

Stinicker wrote: »

My aunt and her husband are both Irish born but travelling on American passports. My cousin their son is American born and travelling on an American passport.

US citizens do not require a visa to enter the Republic of Ireland so there is no issue for your relatives whether they step off a US flight in Shannon or drive across the border from NI or fly into Dublin From Bristol.

The US is listed in Schedule 1 in the list of countries at this website....

You do not need an entry visa for Ireland if you’re a citizen of one of these countries:

https://www.dfa.ie/travel/visas/visas-for-ireland/

HeidiHeidi

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

You could read the thread!

I have read the thread. I was commenting on the CTA.

You could try reading my post. In full.

<ETA - I have no idea what situation in theory the OP's relatives would be in in terms of visa requirements, just commenting on the CTA. >

Fred Swanson

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Sheldons Brain

It happened to my american friend. I collected her from Belfast and drove down. She just reported to an immigration officer and was stamped in. No fuss.

However, American tourists such the the OP are under no obligation to report to anyone or do anything, other than enjoy their holiday.

The general case for people requiring visas may be more complex, but the impression should not be given that US/Canadian/Australian tourists have to do any of this stuff, otherwise people will be peddling misinformation.

Marcusm

Stinicker wrote: »

My cousin has visited the country since Sunday. His mother, father and himself flew from the USA into Belfast, hired a car and drove to Co. Monaghan where they crossed the border somewhere. They have a Northern Irish registered car rented from Belfast which they have rented to return in Shannon. They leave from Shannon next week but have been in the Republic of Ireland all week without having entered officially. What will happen to them in Shannon when they leave?

My aunt and her husband are both Irish born but travelling on American passports. My cousin their son is American born and travelling on an American passport. If they had travelled in on Irish passports there would not be an issue but with their American passports and there having been no record of their entry into the state I wonder could it cause an issue. They don't have Irish passports currently.

They are frequent travelers to Ireland and don't want any problems when they return again most likely next summer. They normally fly in and out of Shannon but chose to fly to Belfast as it was cheaper and nearer to their relations in Monaghan.

We are dealing with 2 persons born in Ireland and their natural child born abroad? Irrespective of the passports they hold, they are all Irish citizens from birth and cannot be excluded from Ireland solely on the basis that they do not hold Irish passports. It's hard to see, even if they were holding passports of a "visa required" country that any immigration control could be forced on them once they could prove their Irish citizenship. Foreign births registration etc not relevant in the context of the child of two Irish born parents.

veetwin

coylemj wrote: »

You have not entered a 'foreign' country. Going across the border in either direction is not recognised by either authority as entering a 'foreign' country. That's why there has never been immigration controls on the border - for people going in either direction.

And when was the last time the Gardai arrested an American tourist coming from NI because he didn't have a visa?



Ever hear of the common travel area?

Actually that's not strictly true. Both Governments recognise the border and there are often Immigration checks carried out especially on the southern side. Anyone who travels the Ulster Bus from the North or the Belfast - Dublin train will be familiar with these checks.

Strictly speaking non EEA Nationals should present to an Immigration Officer upon arrival in the state and as stated visa required countries require both UK and Irish visas in order to cross the border.

In practice non visa required nationalities (including US Nationals) need not worry unless they end up doing something else to attract the attention of the authorities. A UK entry stamp is taken as valid permission to be in the state in most cases.

ardmacha

Strictly speaking non EEA Nationals should present to an Immigration Officer upon arrival in the state

Please point to the exact regulation that states this?

veetwin

ardmacha wrote: »

Please point to the exact regulation that states this?

Section 9 (3) immigration Act 2004


(3) If a non-national has no residence in the State, he or she shall attend at the office of a registration officer and, so far as possible, supply the particulars that would be required under this section if he or she were resident in the district of that officer, and shall report to the registration officer for any other district in which he or she stays for more than 24 hours and also give notice of any intended change of address to the registration officer to whom he or she has last reported.



It's also worth noting that this section does not apply to non nationals born in Ireland or those under 16.

Fred Swanson

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Sheldons Brain

veetwin wrote: »

Section 9 (3) immigration Act 2004


(3) If a non-national has no residence in the State, he or she shall attend at the office of a registration officer and, so far as possible, supply the particulars that would be required under this section if he or she were resident in the district of that officer, and shall report to the registration officer for any other district in which he or she stays for more than 24 hours and also give notice of any intended change of address to the registration officer to whom he or she has last reported.

It's also worth noting that this section does not apply to non nationals born in Ireland or those under 16.

This is rather selective, section 9 also does not apply to

a non-national not resident in the State who has been in the State for a period of not more than 3 months since the date of his or her last arrival in the State;

which is pretty much a tourist.

Now section 4.2 of the same act
A non-national coming by air or sea from a place outside the State shall, on arrival in the State, present himself or herself to an immigration officer and apply for a permission.

but this isn't relevant either.

veetwin

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

This is rather selective, section 9 also does not apply to

a non-national not resident in the State who has been in the State for a period of not more than 3 months since the date of his or her last arrival in the State;

which is pretty much a tourist.

Now section 4.2 of the same act
A non-national coming by air or sea from a place outside the State shall, on arrival in the State, present himself or herself to an immigration officer and apply for a permission.

but this isn't relevant either.

What about Section 5;


Presence in State of non-nationals.

5.—(1) No non-national may be in the State other than in accordance with the terms of any permission given to him or her before the passing of this Act, or a permission given under this Act after such passing, by or on behalf of the Minister.




Does this not place the obligation on non-nationals to seek permission to enter/remain in the state regardless of how they enter?

Fred Swanson

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Sheldons Brain

veetwin wrote: »

What about Section 5;


Presence in State of non-nationals.

5.—(1) No non-national may be in the State other than in accordance with the terms of any permission given to him or her before the passing of this Act, or a permission given under this Act after such passing, by or on behalf of the Minister.




Does this not place the obligation on non-nationals to seek permission to enter/remain in the state regardless of how they enter?

No. The Minister could give permission for people to be in the State if in possession of a valid passport from a jurisdiction not requiring a visa.

veetwin

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

No. The Minister could give permission for people to be in the State if in possession of a valid passport from a jurisdiction not requiring a visa.

I'm sorry but this statement makes no sense to me at least.