Account closed and paid, now a collection agency letter

snaps

Ok,
Myself and my family moved from Ireland last September, obviously i cancelled all my relevant utility accounts. Now I phoned Vodafone and asked them what the procedure was, I verbally gave them 2 months notice and also stated that I was in a new contract from April (I phoned to cancel as I was going to move over to Sky for BB and phone, but they offered me the same deal). Anyhow, they said as I was leaving the country the termination charge for outstanding contract would be waived.
So after the phone conversation, I gave my notice in writing.
The day before we left Ireland I emailed customer support telling them that they could cease my phoneline from the next day (I think it was 48hrs notice).
So all well I thought. I emailed on the 4th of October asking what my outstanding balance was so i knew what to keep in my current account in Ireland for the direct debit.
I had a reply back saying my account was at 0.00€ and had been closed, there was no final payment to be made.
Anyhow, I received a letter saying i owed 98€, which i thought sounded correct.
I emailed Vodafone again and was told to ignore the letter and was told my account was closed and that amount had been written off as a bad debt and that there was no further payments to be made, I would only be liable for that amount if I moved back to Ireland and reinstated my account with Vodafone.

So yesterday I receive a letter forwarded from Ireland from a Collection agency looking for 310€.
As you can imagine I was in shock, phoned vodafone straight away and they said I was billed in November 269€ termination charge.

I explained the emails i had received and said my account was closed and I owed 0.00€. Vodafone wanted none of it, they said I owed 269 to them and it had been passed onto this collection agency. Also they have no recording of the verbal cancelation of my account were the agent said "As I was leaving to go abroad, my termination charge would be waived".

I have also spoken with the collection agency who have said there is nothing they can do. I told them i was living abroad but they said if dont pay up, they will send agents around to my address in Ireland (Which is empty) and then it will be passed onto solicitors.

So, a few people have said dont worry about the letter as i am now abroad, But if I ever want to move back to Ireland I dont want this to go against me, plus I dont want balifs turning up here in my new home abroad.

To be honest I am a bit worried.

Peregrinus

Write to the collection agency - registered post, not e-mail, and keep a copy - and tell them that your account was cleared when you closed it, you have a letter from Vodafone confirming that your account was closed with a nil balance. Enclose a photocopy of that letter. Tell them that the information they have been sent that you owe money is a clearly a mistake. You are sorry they have been troubled with this, but now that you have shown them the correct position you expect to hear no more about it. If they take proceedings to try and recover money you will produce this letter and rely on it to seek an order for costs against them.

Cc the letter to the Vodafone accounts department and include a covering note saying that you are disappointed that they have referred you as a bad debt when you previously had a letter from them confirming the account had been closed with a nil balance, but now that the correct position has been drawn to their attention you are confident that you will hear no more about it.

snaps

See what vodafone are saying is that the zero balance was for my normal monthly payments, they didn't bill me for a termination charge until November. By this time I was long gone and never thought of checking my online vodafone account.

Carawaystick

Check if the bill for the termination charge has vat, there is no vat applicable to cancellation charges, so the bill is wrong there, for one thing.

seb65

There's a cancellation charge of 269 euro?? Is that not astronomically high?

Also, I wouldn't worry about bailiffs turning up at your home abroad. I highly doubt the collection agency will go through the expense for a 300 euro claim.

Greenmachine

seb65 wrote: »

There's a cancellation charge of 269 euro?? Is that not astronomically high?

Also, I wouldn't worry about bailiffs turning up at your home abroad. I highly doubt the collection agency will go through the expense for a 300 euro claim.

3
If anything it could be low. OP could have taken out a 24 month contract in April then 3 months later in July gave them noticed that they wanted the account cancelled. I find the initial post a little confusing to be honest. Not particularly sure of the relevance of them thinking of moving to sky. In any case it sounds like they entered a new contract at the point. What services did you enter a contract with Vodafone for OP.

chopper6

seb65 wrote: »

There's a cancellation charge of 269 euro?? Is that not astronomically high?

Also, I wouldn't worry about bailiffs turning up at your home abroad. I highly doubt the collection agency will go through the expense for a 300 euro claim.

Oh By God they would...not only that,the charges keep mounting especially for any actual agents they might have to send around.

You need to get this sorted or you'll end up owing them a heap of money and debt collectiong agencies are ruthless.

A friend of mine had to pay over 400 euro from an original debt of 100 euro for something similar...they charge for letters,phone calls and sending people round,it's how they make money.

snaps

A 12 month verbal contract when they matched what sky were offering for 49€ a month.

snaps

chopper6 wrote: »

Oh By God they would...not only that,the charges keep mounting especially for any actual agents they might have to send around.

You need to get this sorted or you'll end up owing them a heap of money and debt collectiong agencies are ruthless.

A friend of mine had to pay over 400 euro from an original debt of 100 euro for something similar...they charge for letters,phone calls and sending people round,it's how they make money.

But I am living abroad now since last September. How would they track me as I have no registration here, no names on any bills etc?

Nuttzz

If you want, and only if, you could ring the collection agency tell them your gone from the country and not coming back but that you will give them €100 to settle this. They make deals all the time, they wont on the initial calls but give them a month or two and they will, especially if they use Intrum Justitia as their collection agency

snaps

Nuttzz wrote: »

If you want, and only if, you could ring the collection agency tell them your gone from the country and not coming back but that you will give them €100 to settle this. They make deals all the time, they wont on the initial calls but give them a month or two and they will, especially if they use Intrum Justitia as their collection agency

The fact of the matter is I was verbally told there would be no termination charge as I was moving abroad. I was told by letter my account was closed, also they issued a charge to my online account in November for this termination charge. I never realised it was made, why should I as I thought my account was closed and settled.

Carawaystick

snaps wrote: »

The fact of the matter is I was verbally told there would be no termination charge as I was moving abroad. I was told by letter my account was closed, also they issued a charge to my online account in November for this termination charge. I never realised it was made, why should I as I thought my account was closed and settled.

If you have in writing that your account was closed, dated before any other termination charge, then that termination charge can't be applied to the closed account.....

F1ngers

Ignore the collection agency - you never had a contract with them.

hullaballoo

F1ngers wrote: »

Ignore the collection agency - you never had a contract with them.

Whether a contract exists between the debtor and the collection agency is totally irrelevant.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

chopper6

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Of course i dont work for a debt colection agency but i know how they operate...they're similar to car clampers,they will get thier fee one way or another and like car clampers they ratchet up the charges the longer you leave it.

Dublin city council,i have heard have employed debt collection agency to follow up outsanding bin charges of 13 euro...the agency will use that as a starting point and add on extras if it's not paid.

The OP needs to come to an arrangement with them at some point.

ArseBurger

snaps wrote: »

The fact of the matter is I was verbally told there would be no termination charge as I was moving abroad. I was told by letter my account was closed, also they issued a charge to my online account in November for this termination charge. I never realised it was made, why should I as I thought my account was closed and settled.

Verbal is not fact unless you can prove it.

Debt agencies will chase you abroad and charge you for the pleasure.

The debt agency takes direction from the vendor (in this case Vodafone). If you can get Vodafone to agree in writing that you owe them nothing/zero and get them to direct the debt agency to cease then you're ok. This is pretty much all you can do other than paying the debt.

You have no proof that your termination fee was waived.

I had similar with a satellite provider. However, I had written confirmation that my account was closed and that I had no further dues. The provider eventually directed the debt agency to cease. This took a couple of months and a string of letters. I made sure all communication was written. I suggest you do the same.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

snaps

While this is going on im actually away on holiday in another country. I've been in contact with vodafone, but they want none of it. I was with them for 7 years, never a problem with debits etc.
When I closed my account I had emails from customer care stating no more payments to be taken, balance 0.00 and to disregard any recent letters.
Then a month later when I was long gong they issued a bill for this termination fee.
I knew nothing of it until I had a load of mail forwarded from ireland.
Of course the telephone conversation regarding the waiver was not recorded or on record.

itsirishfarmer

just igore it

Peregrinus

snaps wrote: »

While this is going on im actually away on holiday in another country. I've been in contact with vodafone, but they want none of it. I was with them for 7 years, never a problem with debits etc.
When I closed my account I had emails from customer care stating no more payments to be taken, balance 0.00 and to disregard any recent letters.
Then a month later when I was long gong they issued a bill for this termination fee.
I knew nothing of it until I had a load of mail forwarded from ireland.
Of course the telephone conversation regarding the waiver was not recorded or on record.

But the letter confirming account closed, nil balance is on record.

And, if this ever came to court, your giving evidence that you'd had that conversation, followed by a letter from Vodafone saying nothing more due, makes a fairly good case. Why would they send a letter confirming a nil balance if they had debited a termination charge? Why would Vodafone close an account if they still had charges to debit to it? The letter is entirely consistent with your version of events, and very hard to reconcile with Vodafone's.

On the basis of what you say, I doubt that Vodafone could get judgment against you in court, if you turned up to defend the claim. The problem is that they can cause you considerable hassle without getting judgment against you, or even instituting proceedings, simply by setting the bloodhounds on you, as they have done.

The Communications Regulator is your friend. ComReg investigates complaints about communications services such as that offered by Vodafone. The thing is, before you can go to ComReg, you have to exhaust Vodafones own complaint procedure. (All providers are required to have a complaint procedure.)

So here's what you do:

- Write (registered post, keep a copy) to Vodafone they agreed that there would be no termination charge, they subsequently sent you a letter (copy enclosed) showing account closed and nil balance, you are now being hassled for more money, this is obviously due to a stuff-up at their end, and now that you have pointed it out you expect to hear no more about it.

- If Vodafone gets back and says that they have imposed a termination charge, contact Vodafone and say you wish to make a complaint about the imposition of the charge, and you want to invoke the Vodafone complaints procedure.

- If Vodafone doesn't respond to your letter, but you continue to be hassled by the debt collectors, contact Vodafone and say that you wish to make a complaint about being hassled for money that you don't owe, and you want to invoke the complaints procedure.

- The key, as you'll have spotted, is to invoke the Vodafone complaints procedure. Once you do that they'll write to or e-mail you telling you what their procedure is and assigning you a complaint number.

- Follow the Vodafone complaints procedure. It should not take very long to work through. At an early stage say that you want your complaint escalated so that it is handled by an officer who has the authority to reverse or write off the termination charge that they are trying to recover.

- If the outcome of the Vodafone complaints procedure is that the charge is written off, great.

- If it isn't, then you go to ComReg and tell them the whole sorry story.

There;s a page on the ComReg site about how to bring a complaint to ComReg.

It's worth taking time to set out your complaint in clear language that sets out all the relevant facts but does not display anger or emotion.

My (limited) experience is that communications providers like to have a good standing with ComReg, so (a) if ComReg recommends a resolution in your favour, the provider will almost invariably accept it, and (b) once Vodafone realises the route down which you are going, they may try to prevent the matter ever getting to ComReg by resolving your complaint themselves to your satisfaction. After all, how much time and goodwill are they prepared to burn for the sake of €310?

snaps

Peregrinus wrote: »

But the letter confirming account closed, nil balance is on record.

And, if this ever came to court, your giving evidence that you'd had that conversation, followed by a letter from Vodafone saying nothing more due, makes a fairly good case. Why would they send a letter confirming a nil balance if they had debited a termination charge? Why would Vodafone close an account if they still had charges to debit to it? The letter is entirely consistent with your version of events, and very hard to reconcile with Vodafone's.

On the basis of what you say, I doubt that Vodafone could get judgment against you in court, if you turned up to defend the claim. The problem is that they can cause you considerable hassle without getting judgment against you, or even instituting proceedings, simply by setting the bloodhounds on you, as they have done.

The Communications Regulator is your friend. ComReg investigates complaints about communications services such as that offered by Vodafone. The thing is, before you can go to ComReg, you have to exhaust Vodafones own complaint procedure. (All providers are required to have a complaint procedure.)

So here's what you do:

- Write (registered post, keep a copy) to Vodafone they agreed that there would be no termination charge, they subsequently sent you a letter (copy enclosed) showing account closed and nil balance, you are now being hassled for more money, this is obviously due to a stuff-up at their end, and now that you have pointed it out you expect to hear no more about it.

- If Vodafone gets back and says that they have imposed a termination charge, contact Vodafone and say you wish to make a complaint about the imposition of the charge, and you want to invoke the Vodafone complaints procedure.

- If Vodafone doesn't respond to your letter, but you continue to be hassled by the debt collectors, contact Vodafone and say that you wish to make a complaint about being hassled for money that you don't owe, and you want to invoke the complaints procedure.

- The key, as you'll have spotted, is to invoke the Vodafone complaints procedure. Once you do that they'll write to or e-mail you telling you what their procedure is and assigning you a complaint number.

- Follow the Vodafone complaints procedure. It should not take very long to work through. At an early stage say that you want your complaint escalated so that it is handled by an officer who has the authority to reverse or write off the termination charge that they are trying to recover.

- If the outcome of the Vodafone complaints procedure is that the charge is written off, great.

- If it isn't, then you go to ComReg and tell them the whole sorry story.

There;s a page on the ComReg site about how to bring a complaint to ComReg.

It's worth taking time to set out your complaint in clear language that sets out all the relevant facts but does not display anger or emotion.

My (limited) experience is that communications providers like to have a good standing with ComReg, so (a) if ComReg recommends a resolution in your favour, the provider will almost invariably accept it, and (b) once Vodafone realises the route down which you are going, they may try to prevent the matter ever getting to ComReg by resolving your complaint themselves to your satisfaction. After all, how much time and goodwill are they prepared to burn for the sake of €310?

A great reply thanks. What vodafone are saying is that up to the 17th of September last year the nil balance letter now was regarding any monthly direct debits and not a final charge. But what gets me is that I have another letter dated 4 October to ignore any recent letters looking for payment as any monies owed on my account would be written off as "bad debt". I never got any letter regarding the 260€ termination fee, it was just added to my account (online) without my knowledge. It is there, I think dated 24 October, but by then I would have no reason to be checking my account as I thought it was finished.

snaps

So this has come to life again. A phone call from debt collection agency looking to do a deal for the said amount outstanding. I sent them an email with forwarded emails saying my account was at 0.00€ balance after it was closed and they contacted vodafone.
Vodafone still want the "debt" collected but said they will reduce it by 90€.
The guy I was speaking to sounded very surprised that vodafone are still wanting to recover this said debt after the documentation I sent them.
My Irish solicitor too said it would be like shooting fish in a barrel in court with the emails I have.

So should I do a deal? Or should I leave it and take it to court (don't want the hassle of solicitors and coming back to ireland)?

My gut instinct says court. But what would I gain?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

No Pants

Just curious if there's any VAT applied to this termination charge?

snaps

No Pants wrote: »

Just curious if there's any VAT applied to this termination charge?

I dont know as i dont have a physical bill for it. I will try to check online.


NO VAT, its just 269.80€ with 0.00€ on the VAT.

ShatterProof

If you have time on your hands string them along. If not tell them to hop it and ignore them.

daveohdave

Neither Vodafone nor the collection agency can harm you in any way, either abroad or when you return. Any commentary to the contrary is complete and utter nonsense. Stop responding and stop worrying.

snaps

Its easy to say "Stop worrying" I highly doubt i will ever return to Ireland. Its cost Vodafone so much more than my 263€, as all my remaining family haved got rid of vodafone phones and landlines.

I was a happy loyal customer for 6 years with them, both mobile fixed line and broadband!

daveohdave

It is easy to say, because it's true. Even replying to me is a waste of your time. Forget about it, it's irrelevant. Move on to something that actually matters.

chopper6

It needs to be resolved..any outstanding debt(particularly one dealt with via an agency) can potentially harm you further down the line.

A guy i work with was refused a mortage because he had issues with a credit card company..they published his name as a defaulter and the bank used it against him.

Debt collection agencies are incredibly unreasonable...they will not listen to sob stories and they wil continue to ratchet up the fees.

Come to an arrangement with them and do it now..if you follow some of the advice about ignoring them it will hurt you.

Sorry if i sound harsh but you do *not* want a private agency on your back.

Fred Swanson

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chopper6

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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What ya mean?

Fred Swanson

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chopper6

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What do you think the OP should do then?

To my mind debt collectors are like clampers...there is a way around it if you have the neck.

Fred Swanson

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No Pants

Fred Swanson wrote: »

A final registered letter to the principal denying any debt telling them to tell their tame collectors to back off and leave it at that.

Further contact on the matter from the agency after such a letter could be considered harassment and reported to the Gardai.