Dublin Bus and IMP

coolemon

edit double thread.

coolemon

Just a question that crossed my mind recently.

I remember Dublin Bus used to use those small Mercedes IMP buses on the 122?, 123 and 121 routes. When they first came out they had a leaflet campaign indicating sections of the route where you could be picked up away from a bus stop by putting out your hand (though that practice didn't last long). Since then, those same routes have been extended somewhat and are served by larger double decker buses.

But by and large, I would say that the population served by those routes has not changed significantly since the IMPS were used.

I was just wondering why the IMPs were used when presently those same routes are served by larger capacity Double Deckers.

Was there some transport design philosophy or form of strategic thought in Dublin Bus towards the use of IMPs at the time? - of small shuttle buses?

Or was it a temporary fill-in measure until DB got the funds together to buy the larger Double Decker fleets for the routes?

dfx-

I think it was around the same time of the Cityswift concept. Where single decker buses were put on 'high load' routes in the mid 90s. P's were put on the 39, and AD/VAs etc on the 40, 78A, 66 etc. All single decks..

And double decks were then required for their success...the 122 kept the Cityswift branded single deckers for a long time, the 123 obviously kept WVs until a couple of years ago.

Conway635

It was a form of madness the bus industry in the UK went through in the 1980s and 1990s, a trend for replacing double-deck routes with minibuses on a slightly increased frequency. Dublin was immune at first, and then followed the trend in the 1990s.

Putting smaller buses on some routes is a very good idea, where areas are difficult to serve (say 44B) or loadings are lower (say, 53).

But the minibus trend went way, way beyond this, converting busy trunk routes from double-deck to minibus operation, and causing years of misery for bus passengers with grossly overcrowded services. Even London was not immune - routes such as the 28 and 31 were converted directly from Routemaster to minibus operation.

See here for an example: http://www.londonbusroutes.net/photos/028.htm

There are still many minibus operations in the UK, including London, but these now tend to be smaller routes suited for their operation, rather than busy trunk routes.

Here in Dublin, we have swung back too far in the other direction, with only 3 single-decks out of a fleet of 900 buses, and a number of routes ideal for single-deck or minibus operation now operated by double-decks (53, 104 to name but two).

C635

flazio

Surely it's better to have to many seats rather then too few?

the groutch

depends on running costs of single-decker vs double decker.
the likes of the 63 definitely don't need double decker, and if anything an IMP style bus would be beneficial to that route because there are a couple of spots on the route where the road is very narrow.

loyatemu

they were awful - you couldn't sit 2 normal size people on the seats and my knees were squashed up against the seat-back in front, I'm only 5'8"!

Losty Dublin

flazio wrote: »

Surely it's better to have to many seats rather then too few?

The trouble was that they worked too well and eventually became a victim of their own success.

The IMPS were rolled out onto routes which were dying on their feet and more so suited smaller buses but the elevated service levels they offered saw to it that they ended up requiring larger buses. The 83 was the first route to be converted in 1990. It's ailing neighbour, the 55 was relauched with a slight route tweak as the 155. The 123 replaced the 24 and due to the small buses used it was able to serve into the narrow streets of Marino estate with ease, giving the locals a door to door service plus giving St. James' and Crumlin Hospital with a service to their door. The 30 and 44A became the 130 giving Dollymount and Clontarf both a city centre and a local route.

Tallaght, Bray, Enniskerry and Blanchardstown got local routes which got deep into housing estates while the Liberties and Crumlin ended up with a revamped 50, which was renamed the 150, and a new route loosely fashioned on the old 81, 81 and 22A in the 121. Cabra got a new route out it's own in the 120; so successful was it that it eventually had the 121 extended across town; the 22 also got the red and yellow treatment and entered life as the 122. And these are just a few that come to mind.

As Gabriel mentioned, it was an idea born in the UK. When Bob Montgomery took over at Dublin Bus, he brought the idea over here and, seeing a bus service that was in tatters, he applied it in no time. In the case of some of the converted routes the smaller buses were better versed for narrow and windy roads; some people liked the new smart yet communal buses while others appreciated the regular frequencies and random stopping places which they offered.

However, they were not without their problems. They buses were far too small to cope at peak times and regularly left behind passengers, even at terminal stops. When added to their success in getting punters back onto the buses and the general surge in passenger levels in a city which was growing quickly, it soon saw to it that the Imp buses were unable to cope. There were also union issues (DB looked to pay staff far less to drive the new buses than on a double decker bus) which held up the roll out of routes. In addition to this, the Mercedes Sprinter based buses were not up to the hard working life of a city bus and it was far more practical to use the reliable and sturdy Olympians, the single decker AD and VD classes and eventually the ALX 400 classes.

I gather that a few other routes were to have been converted to Imps but their plans were abandoned; the 65 and 33 being two that stick in my mind. Anybody able to offer some information on same?

n0brain3r

Was a regular user of the 65 in the 90's but don't ever remember it being an IMP service although I traveled mainly at peak times.

Maybe it was the 65A/B there was also a period of 6 months or so where an IMP operated a shuttle bus from Ballyknockan to Blessington following the placement of weight restrictions on some bridges preventing a double decker crossing but strangely not fully laden sand lorries!

I did come across an IMP much more recently though it seemed to have found new life as a private hire bus in Kilkenny about 4 years ago.

LXFlyer

Officially, these were the "branded" routes:

City Imp routes:
83, 120, 121, 122, 123, 130, 134, 150, 155

Localink and other minibus routes:
44b, 145 (Bray local service), 161, 172, 184, 185, 201, 202, 203, 207, 210, 230, 236, 237, 238, 239

CitySwift routes:
13/13a, 25a (Lucan Flyer), 27 (Malahide Road Flyer), 39, 40, 46a (Stillorgan Flyer), 41/41a/41b/41c, 51b, 77, 78a

Losty Dublin

n0brain3r wrote: »

Was a regular user of the 65 in the 90's but don't ever remember it being an IMP service although I traveled mainly at peak times.

Maybe it was the 65A/B there was also a period of 6 months or so where an IMP operated a shuttle bus from Ballyknockan to Blessington following the placement of weight restrictions on some bridges preventing a double decker crossing but strangely not fully laden sand lorries!

I did come across an IMP much more recently though it seemed to have found new life as a private hire bus in Kilkenny about 4 years ago.

It wasn't that the 65 went to Imps/Sprinter minibuses (I did know of the shuttle at one point); something has it in my head that there were plans to have a 65 and a 165 type service which would serve the Ballyknockans and Ballymore Eustaces of the world and a similar plan on the 33; it already had short local workings on the 33, untimetabled connections for trains at Rush and Lusk and the 33B/C.

Curiously, there was a tentative proposal for a shortened 65 working in Network Direct.

Thank you, LX, for the list of revamped routes. I had forgotten about the 134 which is no more.

n0brain3r

Sorry Losty I misread you. From recollection the unions weren't happy about the IMP shuttle either to the extent that if the connection with the bus was missed the IMP would off load passengers in Blessington to wait an hour for the next bus and return empty to Dublin.