SFP - Retention Period

Toplink

Entering as a new young farmer in 2014.

Have no silage ground so not interested in wintering cattle which means buying no earlier than March and selling no later than end of Oct.

Regarding SFP is there a minimum time I need to have cattle on the land?

paddysdream

No need to have stock at all for SFP.All you need is to be farming the land.

Think there is a minimum stocking rate/retention period for DA payments but not sure about that.

CHOPS01

As a matter of interest what do you plan on stocking?
Bullocks or heifers?
Yearlings or stores?

farmernewbie

paddysdream wrote: »

No need to have stock at all for SFP.All you need is to be farming the land.

Think there is a minimum stocking rate/retention period for DA payments but not sure about that.

8 months for DAS

Toplink

Ok, shows how much I have to learn.

DAS is what I meant. 8 months, ok that's fair enough.

@CHOPS01 Store Bullocks is the plan. As I understand i'll need to have a minimum amount of units per hectare and a store bullock will have a greater unit value than a yearling?

Stevec394

Interesting thread are you not worried about high prices in March when buying and them the potential of poor prices at the back end when you are selling.

Toplink

Stevec394 wrote: »

Interesting thread are you not worried about high prices in March when buying and them the potential of poor prices at the back end when you are selling.

Of course I am. I have nothing done yet and am open to options.

Its dry land and I could winter them if needed but that would mean buying silage and I didn't want to go down that route in year 1 for a variety of reasons (new baby due in Oct, travelling abroad with work in December).

Stevec394

Yea its an option im looking to try aswell. Im currently wintering cattle and winter finishing some. Costs are killing it. If I changed to that system I would be cancelling my costs on concentrates, silage, rented housing, winter veterinary and labour. I was thinking of going down the route of buying weanling/yearling heifers in March keeping them the grazing season and selling in the marts in October. The margin of profit is just not in the winter finishing I feel. My only worry is prices at buying and selling.

Toplink

Stevec394 wrote: »

Yea its an option im looking to try aswell. Im currently wintering cattle and winter finishing some. Costs are killing it. If I changed to that system I would be cancelling my costs on concentrates, silage, rented housing, winter veterinary and labour. I was thinking of going down the route of buying weanling/yearling heifers in March keeping them the grazing season and selling in the marts in October. The margin of profit is just not in the winter finishing I feel. My only worry is prices at buying and selling.

Sure look, its risky business to be honest but no riskier than wintering in my opinion and with a lot less cost and effort. Of course you'll still have the cost of concentrates, manure and vets etc but its more controlled than the winter option.

stanflt

Did you claim Sfp in 2013

If not you can't claim Sfp

Toplink

stanflt wrote: »

Did you claim Sfp in 2013

If not you can't claim Sfp

No.

My 'Adviser' failed to mention this to me.

Why?

theaceofspies

If these factory prices keep trending as they are a lot of guys are going to be forced to get out of the business - there are only so many losses that can be sustained (with or without the SFP) and that breaking point must be approaching for a lot of beef men.

Toplink

farmernewbie wrote: »

8 months for DAS

I was told 7 today... Is there an updated document for 2014?

There 2013 Document states the following...

1. Minimum Stocking Density Requirements
Eligible applicants in 2013 must have met (a) a minimum stocking density of 0.3 livestock units per
hectare in 2011 (equivalent to 2 ewes per hectare), or have been granted derogation and (b) 0.15
livestock units per hectare in 2013.

2. Minimum Stocking Density of 0.15 livestock units per forage hectare in 2013
The retention period is increased to seven consecutive months where the stocking density on the
holding has to be equal or greater than 0.15 livestock units per forage hectare. In addition to
maintaining 0.15 livestock units for a minimum retention period of seven consecutive months,
applicants must also maintain an annual average of 0.15 livestock units calculated over the 12 months
of the scheme year. Applicants must own, possess, hold and maintain the livestock required to
maintain the minimum stocking level.

farmernewbie

Toplink wrote: »

I was told 7 today... Is there an updated document for 2014?

There 2013 Document states the following...

1. Minimum Stocking Density Requirements
Eligible applicants in 2013 must have met (a) a minimum stocking density of 0.3 livestock units per
hectare in 2011 (equivalent to 2 ewes per hectare), or have been granted derogation and (b) 0.15
livestock units per hectare in 2013.

2. Minimum Stocking Density of 0.15 livestock units per forage hectare in 2013
The retention period is increased to seven consecutive months where the stocking density on the
holding has to be equal or greater than 0.15 livestock units per forage hectare. In addition to
maintaining 0.15 livestock units for a minimum retention period of seven consecutive months,
applicants must also maintain an annual average of 0.15 livestock units calculated over the 12 months
of the scheme year. Applicants must own, possess, hold and maintain the livestock required to
maintain the minimum stocking level.

Sorry you are correct it was 7 months and 6 the year before. Hopefully 7 or 6 this year.

theaceofspies

farmernewbie wrote: »

Sorry you are correct it was 7 months and 6 the year before. Hopefully 7 or 6 this year.

Any betting it will be 8 months this year :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
Summer grazing might yet go the way of the DoDo.

Toplink

theaceofspies wrote: »

Any betting it will be 8 months this year :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:
Summer grazing might yet go the way of the DoDo.

Jesus the glass is really half empty today with you, i'll put it down to a bad Monday!

Its all about supply and demand, some lads will get out, the efficient will survive and will benefit from the fallout of the inefficient guys.

The one thing that is a fly in the ointment of the efficient surviving is the subsidies for part time farmers... who see it as a sideline and don't have to survive on it.

I am in this bracket but I like to think that I am different as I have run my own business before and I do know how to price and value my own time.

CHOPS01

Hoping to go down this route in a gradual way over the next 2 to 3 years.
Is it niave of me to think that 50 head of cattle could return 10-12k per annum

farmernewbie

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Hoping to go down this route in a gradual way over the next 2 to 3 years.
Is it niave of me to think that 50 head of cattle could return 10-12k per annum

Reckon after expenses closer to 8k. More experienced lads here may know better. What you thinking of buying with factory prices at the moment?

I usually buy continentals but thinking buying whiteheads now if factories are after lighter cattle.

CHOPS01

I know its all about the continentals these days.Auld fella has always been a hereford man so would probably be drawn that way. But would be looking at value for money when shopping.
Rather be buying a good quality blk/red whitehead than a middling charlois

Hopefully be shopping within next few weeks.

farmernewbie

CHOPS01 wrote: »

I know its all about the continentals these days.Auld fella has always been a hereford man so would probably be drawn that way. But would be looking at value for money when shopping.
Rather be buying a good quality blk/red whitehead than a middling charlois

Hopefully be shopping within next few weeks.

I will be myself as well, will let you know how I go. Made 300 profit on some nice continentals last year, struggled to get 200 on a few bad ones and a few blues.

CHOPS01

farmernewbie wrote: »

I will be myself as well, will let you know how I go. Made 300 profit on some nice continentals last year, struggled to get 200 on a few bad ones and a few blues.

All grass ?
What did you buy initially were they yearlings or stores

farmernewbie

CHOPS01 wrote: »

All grass ?
What did you buy initially were they yearlings or stores

Yearlings or just under a year. Bout 300kg sold for avg around 500kg. Grass and tonne and half of nuts to keep them ticking over and easy to manage. Other bills vet, dosing and transport.

CHOPS01

farmernewbie wrote: »

Yearlings or just under a year. Bout 300kg sold for avg around 500kg. Grass and tonne and half of nuts to keep them ticking over and easy to manage. Other bills vet, dosing and transport.

Very good. Can I ask have you green cert and are you claiming entitlements. Could you do it without entitlements?

farmernewbie

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Very good. Can I ask have you green cert and are you claiming entitlements. Could you do it without entitlements?

No green cert, full time job. Not a danger of doing it without entitlement and don't be fooled by anyone that says otherwise. Of course I'm trying to build and improve things so I can make more without entitlements. I sell silage and am improving grass land etc.

But it I have one or two mortalities there does my profit.

Toplink

farmernewbie wrote: »

No green cert, full time job. Not a danger of doing it without entitlement and don't be fooled by anyone that says otherwise. Of course I'm trying to build and improve things so I can make more without entitlements. I sell silage and am improving grass land etc.

But it I have one or two mortalities there does my profit.

I am doing the sums at the moment and without entitlements/DAS you'd be as well off staying bed.

I reckon 300 per head is the max I would make and worst case scenario would be 150 a head.

If GLAS comes next year it would suit me and I would also be interested in putting up a loose shed so the grants there would interest me.

farmernewbie

Toplink wrote: »

I am doing the sums at the moment and without entitlements/DAS you'd be as well off staying bed.

I reckon 300 per head is the max I would make and worst case scenario would be 150 a head.

If GLAS comes next year it would suit me and I would also be interested in putting up a loose shed so the grants there would interest me.

300 is max for me and unfortunately one or two have been below the 150.

Toplink

So it looks like i'll need some sort of a shed on the land before they'll give me a herd number :rolleyes: Animal Health & Welfare Act, which does make a lot of sense when you think about it.

Hmmm, with TAMS coming in late 2014 I think i'll hold off my introduction to farming till 2015 as there is no point in building a half arsed shed now when I could get 60% funding for a proper shed later.

The Dept lad told me there might other ways around this, like leasing a shed somewhere but it sounds complicated.

Gives me more time to plan and think anyway I suppose.

cj maxx

as there is no point in building a half arsed shed now when I could get 60% funding for a proper one


If you need a shed build one thats cheap now because if there is going to be a 60% grant that grant will be swallowed up on inflated construction costs for a 'registered' contractor
Find a cynic who build one in the boom and learn from them

tanko

When are all the summer grazers who need cattle to qualify for DAS going to start buying cattle?

ABlur

tanko wrote: »

When are all the summer grazers who need cattle to qualify for DAS going to start buying cattle?

When the tide goes out! Maybe end of March but my place will need a few dry weeks for that to happen. Also no fertiliser out yet so wont be able to get fully stocked up til April.

tanko

ABlur wrote: »

When the tide goes out! Maybe end of March but my place will need a few dry weeks for that to happen. Also no fertiliser out yet so wont be able to get fully stocked up til April.

I was afraid that would be the reply:D. Kept a few weanlings bulls for you lot and getting fed up looking at them.

keep going

How do you plan to buy these cattle and have you an eye for them.to have any chance of making a profit in this system you must buy well and that means living in the marts for a few weeks and picking up good value cattle-you cant buy all your cattle in 2 or 3 days.unfortunately in the beef game someone has to loose money for you to make it but if you dont buy very shrewdly you are going to be the loser. In my view you should buy in feb to have a better chance of getting cheaper stock because in march april may there is too many fellas like yourself looking for cattle and it always goes a little mad

ABlur

keep going wrote: »

How do you plan to buy these cattle ....

I get a local dealer to buy them as he lives in the mart and as a novice I dont plan to compete with him and his colleagues around the ring. He buys what I want and sticks to the budgset. Twas June last year before I stsrted late getting herd No etc. Kept them til Dec happy enough with them. Would love to be stocking in Feb but in west clare thats not realistic.