Hatching the chickens a bit too early: Cllr Malcolm Noonan said that he was puzzled

Chinasea

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/felling-of-trees-in-kilkenny-city-puzzling-and-saddening-malcolm-noonan-1-5893913

"Kilkenny’s local authorities have claimed that the felling of trees in the centre of the city, which had been earmarked for removal to facilitate the construction of a new bridge, suffered some damage as a result of recent storms and after inspection had to be cut down.

Cllr Malcolm Noonan said that he was puzzled and saddened at the loss of the trees particularly given the fact that no decision has been made regarding the status of the houses at Vicar Street which are on the route of the planned Central Access Scheme (CAS) and the new bridge. The houses are due for demolition but questions remains over their importance in heritage terms."

Must they. Must they really? This seems such a shame.

kikel

The latest update from the council.
www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/RSSLatestNewsAndAnnouncements/Statement-on-Removal-of-Trees-in-the-Peace-Park.34503.shortcut.html

mick kk

So basically, there was possibly absolutely no reason to cut those trees down. At least there will be a better view of the plastic looking bridge now from the peace park.

nuttz

Wood quay comes to mind again, not because of any historical significance of the two houses, but because the council are pushing this through in the same manner, similar tactics,etc.

Deathwish4

Who cares?

If Malcolm Noonan wants to look at some trees, he can come sit in my front garden.

Threadhead

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Who cares?

If Malcolm Noonan wants to look at some trees, he can come sit in my front garden.

Loads of people care. They care about how the city looks. They care about what gets destroyed in the city and what gets built in the city. They care about the place they live and want the best for it.

Hope that answers the question.

Chinasea

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Who cares?

If Malcolm Noonan wants to look at some trees, he can come sit in my front garden.

But some of us do care. Some of us care about our communal environment and whats-more APPRECIATE it.

After-all it was with great foresight, several hundred years ago that someone (who knows it could have even been a relative of yours) planted these beautiful trees for YOU and I to benefit from.

Some of us at least are aware of our environment and respect and appreciate it. The county has sadly lost many of its beautiful trees of late, not just as a result of the recent storms, but for silly reasons as in this case. Tree planting is more-or-less off the County Council's agendas nationwide sadly and they have a wheel barrow of lazy excuses as to why planting seriously lacks. OP your user name is concerning.

Grats

I care about trees and the environment. I also care about the money being wasted on those houses in Vicar St. It appears to me that the whole preserve those houses thing is just an excuse to stall the new bridge. Nobody gave a care about them when they were tumbling down for years.

Green's Bridge is not fit for purpose and hasn't been for years. I use it everyday, I know what it's like to negotiate it. Furthermore these do gooders showed no interest in the path, really a scaffolding, that was installed on Green's Bridge many years ago and remains there to this day. An ugly and dangerous spectacle.

All I've heard of to date in relation to those houses is an ancient window! For gods sake. Can we just knock the rest of the rubbish and put the window in Rothe House on display?

What an utter waste of money.

Cabaal

Grats, in fairness the central access scheme is a poor idea,

It would be far far better to complete the ring road with the ultimate aim of linking it up with the Callan road roundabout (or as near as they can), at the very least for now linking the Castlecomor roundabout with the Freshford road area would have benefits traffic wise.

Grats

We need a new bridge near Greens Bridge, there is no doubt about that, it's well overdue. I understand from what I read on many occasions that the funding for this current bridge is there now but not for ever or for any other project. We are not getting an extension to the Ring Road for the foreseeable future. What's wrong with improving the situation for motorists, pedestrians, cyclists etc by building a new bridge now. I'm very familiar with our City and know the Dean St area only too well. Putting in a new bridge can only improve matters for what is a bottle neck area from Dean St right over to the Comer Road. And of course there is the safety aspect.

If more traffic starts to use the new route at least the new road structure will handle it. I don't see why there should be that much more traffic anyway. For example if I were arriving at the Dunmore Roundabout in a truck and wanted to get to the Callan Road I would use the Ring Road rather than use the new bridge and then negotiate up through Stephens St etc. in any event trucks could be prohibited.

Forget about the extension to the Ring Road, we don't have the funding. We do have the funding for the new bridge. I wonder how many of the anti brigade actually use Vicar St, Greens Bridge etc on a daily basis. If they do then they are irresponsible to object to the proposed new bridge.

catbear

Grats, all the Central Access Scheme does is deliver the same bottleneck closer to the city, you could alternatively call it the Congestion Acceleration Scheme!

The completion of a bridge to continue the ringroad is the solution to Greensbridge congestion. All the traffic generated by estates on the Comer and Freshford road would have an viable alternative for accessing either side.

As for those trees, national 1 in 10 trees were affected by the storm. I walked down there after the strong winds and the place had a lot of large branch falls.

Chinasea, the area just after the swimming pool was planted in recent decades, prior to that is was all just grass. And as for trees falling I remember the really big tree falling into the river, it was on the opposite bank and was so large we could cross the river walking on it! I wonder if anyone has a photo of it?

Grats

catbear wrote: »

Grats, all the Central Access Scheme does is deliver the same bottleneck closer to the city, you could alternatively call it the Congestion Acceleration Scheme!

The completion of a bridge to continue the ringroad is the solution to Greensbridge congestion. All the traffic generated by estates on the Comer and Freshford road would have an viable alternative for accessing either side.

As for those trees, national 1 in 10 trees were affected by the storm. I walked down there after the strong winds and the place had a lot of large branch falls.

Chinasea, the area just after the swimming pool was planted in recent decades, prior to that is was all just grass. And as for trees falling I remember the really big tree falling into the river, it was on the opposite bank and was so large we could cross the river walking on it! I wonder if anyone has a photo of it?

How could a new bridge create the same bottle neck as that at Greens Bridge which just cannot accommodate today's traffic? Greens Bridge is dangerous and should not be considered for its present use into the future. The plans for the old bridge after the new one is complete is to use it for pedestrians and cyclists only. What a wonderful idea that is.

We all know that there will be no funding for the ring road in the near future, meanwhile a bridge is badly needed for which we have funding and therefore it is irresponsible to carry on using Greens Bridge in its current form when that funding is there.

By the way, the local authorities are to be commended for the landscaping - that includes plants, flowers and trees - they have carried out over many many years around the city and county. After the recent storm damage we can all appreciate nature all the more and have a better understanding of the type of trees more suited to our environment.

catbear

Grats wrote: »

How could a new bridge create the same bottle neck as that at Greens Bridge which just cannot accommodate today's traffic? Greens Bridge is dangerous and should not be considered for its present use into the future. The plans for the old bridge after the new one is complete is to use it for pedestrians and cyclists only. What a wonderful idea that is.

The same simply moves from its current location.
The CPOs for the ringroad extension are already in process, it's only a matter of time. CAS or the Congestion Acceleration Scheme is not the solution.

Captain Havoc

I agree with catbear, it only moves the problem (pretty sure I posted same earlier). The road doesn't go anywhere and I don't think it will have a good or bad effect on traffic.

Grats

I'm talking about the dangerous bottle neck that is Greens Bridge. As I said, this bridge will be for pedestrians and cyclists when the new bridge is open. Building a new bridge out the road from the city will do nothing to improve safety issues for people using Greens Bridge. The site for the new bridge is a no brainer for those of us who use Greens Bridge daily. It is long overdue. I look forward to the extension of the ring road also.

Cabaal

Grats wrote: »

Building a new bridge out the road from the city will Di nothing to improve safety issues for people using Greens Bridge.

Do nothing?

You sure?

It would reduce the amount of traffic using greens bridge for a start, which is what really makes it hell for people that use it daily.

As for your claim that greens bridge is dangerous, what is dangerous exactly?

Sure its narrow but the traffic that uses it should be slow moving (due to city speed limits),

From my use of the bridge both as a motorist and person that uses it to run each week. The issue that makes it dangerous is motorists going far too fast and not paying attention to the pedestrian crossing and to road markings such as the roundabout nearby.

Grats

Did you ever try cycling over the bridge? Would you be relaxed in the knowledge that so many school children have to negotiate if regularly? Did you ever see people pushing prams trying to get by one coming in opposite direction? Surely now that there is a golden opportunity to make the bridge safe for pedestrians and cyclists we should grab it? Of course if you're dead against the project you won't accept the facts.

Cabaal

Grats wrote: »

Did you ever try cycling over the bridge? Would you be relaxed in the knowledge that so many school children have to negotiate if regularly? Did you ever see people pushing prams trying to get by one coming in opposite direction? Surely now that there is a golden opportunity to make the bridge safe for pedestrians and cyclists we should grab it? Of course if you're dead against the project you won't accept the facts.

These aren't facts, these things are your opinions and your twisting them to make something that is actually something thats merely inconvenient into something you want to call dangerous.

The footpath is narrow, does that make it dangerous? Nope.
It makes it inconvenient, the narrowness of the footpath in no way causes any pedestrian onto the road because this can't happen due to the railings.

The footpaths in John street and Rose Inn street are just as narrow, if not more so in places.
in comparison they have no railings which means a pedestrian can and do at any moment step out into traffic, this is far more dangerous in fairness. Unless you disagree?

As for cycling it, never had any problems cycling it.
I'm curious have you ever cycled it or are you merely assuming it is dangerous to cycle across the bridge?

Grats

I'm sorry to disappoint you but those facts reflect the opinions of a variety if people, young and old, who have put up with this situation for years. U would never be so self centred as to reflect just my own views. And to solve your curiosity, I have walked, cycled, driven, pushed buggys over Greens Bridge for many years. I still use it a number of times daily and commend the council for finally acting responsibly on behalf of the citizens.

Those opposed to it clearly have little regard for safety. And on the one hand they say it will be the same bottle neck and yet they state that more traffic will use the new route! Such a contradiction.

Ask yourselves, would not Greens Bridge be more safe were it to be pedestrianised? That includes runners,by the way!

That is my final say on the matter. I just thought it was high time the views of those most inconvenienced by the current arrangement were expressed. And in any case it is going ahead, thankfully.

Cabaal

Grats wrote: »

I'm sorry to disappoint you but those facts reflect the opinions of a variety if people, young and old, who have put up with this situation for years.

errr,
It doesn't matter if 1 person says it or 200 people say something, that still doesn't make what is being said a fact. It makes it a opinion.

Facts in this case would come from you backing up your claims with actual research from say the council or NRA showing that greens bridge is dangerous for use.

Those opposed to it clearly have little regard for safety. .

Although you've claimed its unsafe you've still not demonstrated how the footpath on greens bridge is unsafe when for example compared to the bottleneck created between the end of Rose Inn Street and John's Bridge. (Around that news agents before Xtravision)

If anything the footpath on greens bridge is safer as it stops people walking out into traffic,

Ask yourselves, would not Greens Bridge be more safe were it to be pedestrianised? That includes runners,by the way!

You just pulling such ideas out of the air now or you want to backup such ideas with actual council plans for such a thing?

Turning greens bridge into a total pedestrian zone won't happen, the best you can hope for is a one way system and even that is a push....as we saw before, people in Kilkenny don't like one way systems even when they create a safer road environment for cyclists etc.

The Central Access Scheme is a short sighted solution for Kilkenny as most of the traffic that uses greens bridge at present doesn't actually need to go through the city at all. Instead it should go around the city using a ring road.

catbear

Grats wrote: »

Did you ever try cycling over the bridge? .

All my life Grats and I never had a problem cycling it. Having said that I'm used to cycling from before there were ever any cycle lanes in Kilkenny so I can imagine some cyclists find road sharing a challenge.

If we followed your implied logic then that very same bottleneck would be switched from Greensbridge to the Congestion Acceleration Scheme.

What myself and rational posters have posited is that a substantial volume of traffic would be removed from Greensbrigde and/or your Congestion Acceleration Scheme if the ringroad was extended to the Freshford road.

Citing cycling as a reason for the Congestion Acceleration Scheme is of the same distracting tactics as its opponents use of a medieval window.

In relation to the thread topic here's an actual link for the conspiracists to shove in their pipe.

The Department of Agriculture’s forest service said it was very hard to estimate the number of fallen trees but it could be as high as 7.5 million.

Bowlardo

I supported(marched) the CAS and still do but the brewery site needs to be developed and that need the new bridge....
To be honest I would have no problem with it but the absolute shambles the made of the library pedestrian bridge fills me with no confidence.
Whoever is accountable for that should be out of a job.....it's horrendous...if they go ahead with thenew bridge it will something three times as grotesque....the equivalent of ****ing a concreate blank over the nore....medieval city my arse

Cabaal

Bowlardo wrote: »

I supported(marched) the CAS and still do but the brewery site needs to be developed and that need the new bridge....
To be honest I would have no problem with it but the absolute shambles the made of the library pedestrian bridge fills me with no confidence.
Whoever is accountable for that should be out of a job.....it's horrendous...if they go ahead with thenew bridge it will something three times as grotesque....the equivalent of ****ing a concreate blank over the nore....medieval city my arse

Whatever bridge the build will have to be very high up to pass over the nore and the walk beside the nore. this means its going to need supports which means odds are its going to be ugly as feck.

Downside is you'll also see it from the Castle and Johns Bridge, so overall it won't look good in the city centre.

Another reason why they should complete the ORR and have the bridge outside the city