Under age Disco

m'lady

My 13 year old was at a teenage disco at the local hotel in our town. After collecting her at 11pm, we were chatting and have been told the disco had a smoking area and a lot of the kids were congregating out there (on a roof terrace of all places), ashtrays were provided. I also have been told that they have alcohol on display (not covered)... Just wondering is this normal practice? I'd have thought that it isn't??

I'm no prude, but am pretty angry that they'd provide a smoking area for a disco catering for 13-16 year olds! Apart from encouraging smoking, it's a potential hazard as it's on a bloody roof terrace- full of teenagers?

The Pheasant2

m'lady wrote: »

My 13 year old was at a teenage disco at the local hotel in our town. After collecting her at 11pm, we were chatting and have been told the disco had a smoking area and a lot of the kids were congregating out there (on a roof terrace of all places), ashtrays were provided. I also have been told that they have alcohol on display (not covered)... Just wondering is this normal practice? I'd have thought that it isn't??

I'm no prude, but am pretty angry that they'd provide a smoking area for a disco catering for 13-16 year olds! Apart from encouraging smoking, it's a potential hazard as it's on a bloody roof terrace- full of kids?

Providing a smoking area is standard enough for those discos. Yes there would be smoking going on to a degree but for the most part it's just an area to chat away from the loud music.

m'lady

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Providing a smoking area is standard enough for those discos. Yes there would be smoking going on to a degree but for the most part it's just an area to chat away from the loud music.

Why does it have to be set up as a smoking area, that's my question? It's totally encouraging kids to smoke, by catering for them.

The Pheasant2

m'lady wrote: »

Why does it have to be set up as a smoking area, that's my question? It's totally encouraging kids to smoke, by catering for them.

Yeah you're right there; although realistically any outside area at all will end up being smoked in anyway - they're probably aware of this and are just trying to save on clean up. I wouldn't worry about your daughter anyway, just make it very clear to her that she'll be in some serious trouble if you do catch her out smoking

m'lady

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Yeah you're right there; although realistically any outside area at all will end up being smoked in anyway - they're probably aware of this and are just trying to save on clean up. I wouldn't worry about your daughter anyway, just make it very clear to her that she'll be in some serious trouble if you do catch her out smoking

She's been well warned! I'm still interested to look into the legalities of this, I'd have thought it would be illegal considering all the bans in various places (hospitals etc), and here's a nightclub encouraging minors, and in addition displaying alcohol?
I'm only in my early 30's but I remember the 'teenie bopper' discos had alcohol covered down with shutters, and there certainly wasn't a smoking area, indoors or ourdoors!

The Princess Bride

Although it is illegal for minors to buy cigarettes, there's nothing stopping them from smoking.
I'd imagine the hotel is providing that area, to ensure nobody will smoke in areas where it is forbodden-ie: inside/toilets.
Unfortunately, just because some of us don't want our children smoking, doesn't mean everyone thinks like us.

In relation to the alcohol, it isn't actually being sold-I guess that's the main selling point of these teenage discos** from a parent's point of view.

**(I have been reliably informed that they are called "clubs" nowadays, and not discos.:o)

dpofloinn

I think you are over reacting and gettin offended for the sake of getting offended. An open smoking area and alcohol on show should be the least of your worries when it comes to teenage discos.

Its a Hotel/NightClub its going to have a smoking area,it was not provided for the benefit of the kids it is provided for adults who 99 times out of 100 are the pricipal customers of this facility. I sincerely doubt the hotel/nightclub is encourageing smokeing amongst teenagers. Was the hotel/nightclub selling cigarettes to these kids?

Secondly its a Hotel/NightClub it is going to have a bar that has alcohol in it again I dont think they are encourageing kids to drink.By your logic you would never be able to bring kids for lunch or dinner in a pub. Did the hotel/nightclub sell alcohol to the kids?


Im in my 30s too and of course there was no smokeing area provided because back then you could light up a cigerette when and where you liked in a pub/nightclub and you could buy cigarettes aged 16

m'lady

The Princess Bride wrote: »

Although it is illegal for minors to buy cigarettes, there's nothing stopping them from smoking.
I'd imagine the hotel is providing that area, to ensure nobody will smoke in areas where it is forbodden-ie: inside/toilets.
Unfortunately, just because some of us don't want our children smoking, doesn't mean everyone thinks like us.

In relation to the alcohol, it isn't actually being sold-I guess that's the main selling point of these teenage discos** from a parent's point of view.

**(I have been reliably informed that they are called "clubs" nowadays, and not discos.:o)

The club was only opened for 13-16 year olds, and the smoking area is only for the club, so it was especially for the teens at the disco ( they are calling it disco here!). Anyway thanks for your reply, I'm still going to look into it, as I really feel it's wrong what they are doing, and as I've said the smoking area is on a roof terrace.. That's an accident waiting to happen with a large group of over excited teens.

I know I sound like a fussy oul bint, I'm really not- but this has really annoyed me.

dpofloinn

m'lady wrote: »

Completely aware of other concerns of teenage discos, thanks.

Firstly- why did they have to open the smoking area (on a roof terrace, over Looking a lake?) it was a teenage disco, with no other patrons there except the teens?
I sincerely th

Perhaps they didnt fancy having a gang a of teens smoking in the bathrooms, or perhaps security didnt fancy having gangs of teens going in and out of the club for a smoke,perhaps they opened it up to have an overflow place where kids could go outside to get a breath of fresh air or chat in relative quiet.

You seem to have a fixation with this roof terrace. How is it more dangerous to have SOBER teens up there as opposed to DRUNK adults?

m'lady

dpofloinn wrote: »

I think you are over reacting and gettin offended for the sake of getting offended. An open smoking area and alcohol on show should be the least of your worries when it comes to teenage discos.

Its a Hotel/NightClub its going to have a smoking area,it was not provided for the benefit of the kids it is provided for adults who 99 times out of 100 are the pricipal customers of this facility. I sincerely doubt the hotel/nightclub is encourageing smokeing amongst teenagers. Was the hotel/nightclub selling cigarettes to these kids?

Secondly its a Hotel/NightClub it is going to have a bar that has alcohol in it again I dont think they are encourageing kids to drink.By your logic you would never be able to bring kids for lunch or dinner in a pub. Did the hotel/nightclub sell alcohol to the kids?


Im in my 30s too and of course there was no smokeing area provided because back then you could light up a cigerette when and where you liked in a pub/nightclub and you could buy cigarettes


Completely aware of the other concerns of teenage discos, thanks.

Anyway back on topic - why did they have to open the smoking area (on a roof terrace, over Looking a lake?) it was a teenage disco, with no other patrons there except the teens?
I sincerely think they are encouraging kids to possibly try smoking- opening a nice, cooler (temperature wise), quieter room for them to SMOKE and have a chat in.

By my logic going for dinner in a pub/restaurant with adults/parents and seeing alcohol on display is very, very different to going up a nightclub to an underage event and seeing fancy bottles of various etc behind the bar.

I really doubt you could have lit a cigarette up in the middle of a disco aimed at under 17 years olds, at say 13 years old??

Also I could be mistaken but I think the sake of tobacco is illegal to under 18 year olds now?

The Princess Bride

m'lady wrote: »

I'm still going to look into it, as I really feel it's wrong what they are doing, and as I've said the smoking area is on a roof terrace.. That's an accident waiting to happen with a large group of over excited teens.

I know I sound like a fussy oul bint, I'm really not- but this has really annoyed me.

You're not a fussy oul bint! When it's your children, there's no such thing as an over reaction.
I've always been worried when parents don't give a shít, not the other way around.

I'd imagine that if it's the only smoking area, then they have little choice.
If they let the children outside of the hotel building, then absolutely anything could happen to them and security would be an even worse nightmare than it probably already is.

You could find out who organises it and tell them your concerns about the roof(potential fall) factor-as I'd imagine trying to discuss the smoking issue would be a waste of time.

Best of luck.

m'lady

dpofloinn wrote: »

Perhaps they didnt fancy having a gang a of teens smoking in the bathrooms, or perhaps security didnt fancy having gangs of teens going in and out of the club for a smoke,perhaps they opened it up to have an overflow place where kids could go outside to get a breath of fresh air or chat in relative quiet.

You seem to have a fixation with this roof terrace. How is it more dangerous to have SOBER teens up there as opposed to DRUNK adults?

Oh because teens don't drink? Seriously?!

Anyway I'm not getting into a debate with you, I came on asking for advice on the legalities of this, which I have not found out yet. I'd imagine the majority of parents will see where I'm coming from anyway.

dpofloinn

m'lady wrote: »

Completely aware of the other concerns of teenage discos, thanks.

Anyway back on topic - why did they have to open the smoking area (on a roof terrace, over Looking a lake?) it was a teenage disco, with no other patrons there except the teens?
I sincerely think they are encouraging kids to possibly try smoking- opening a nice, cooler (temperature wise), quieter room for them to SMOKE and have a chat in.

By my logic going for dinner in a pub/restaurant with adults/parents and seeing alcohol on display is very, very different to going up a nightclub to an underage event and seeing fancy bottles of various etc behind the bar.

I really doubt you could have lit a cigarette up in the middle of a disco aimed at under 17 years olds, at say 13 years old??

Also I could be mistaken but I think the sake of tobacco is illegal to under 18 year olds now?

What possible advantage could be gained by this night club in encourageing kids to smoke? Does Philip Morris own this night club?

Is this night club selling alcohol at these teenage discos?

Yes you could have, the legal age to purchase fags BACK THEN was 16 and there was no smoking ban

Yes you are correct the lagal age to purchase tobacco is NOW 18 but as far as im aware there is no law against smoking under 18 and if you think that under 18s dont smoke you are very naive

nbar12

m'lady

The Princess Bride wrote: »

You're not a fussy oul bint! When it's your children, there's no such thing as an over reaction.
I've always been worried when parents don't give a shít, not the other way around.

I'd imagine that if it's the only smoking area, then they have little choice.
If they let the children outside of the hotel building, then absolutely anything could happen to them and security would be an even worse nightmare than it probably already is.

You could find out who organises it and tell them your concerns about the roof(potential fall) factor-as I'd imagine trying to discuss the smoking issue would be a waste of time.

Best of luck.

Ha ha, thanks! I'm nearly starting to question myself now! No it's not the only smoking area, and nobody else in the hotel could actually access it without going into the nightclub (which they wouldn't be allowed into if they were over 17!). I just think allowing them sit up on a roof terrace smoking is very,very wrong at such an impressionable age.
Thanks for your reply ..

m'lady

dpofloinn wrote: »

What possible advantage could be gained by this night club in encourageing kids to smoke? Does Philip Morris own this night club?

Is this night club selling alcohol at these teenage discos?

Yes you could have, the legal age to purchase fags BACK THEN was 16 and there was no smoking ban

Yes you are correct the lagal age to purchase tobacco is NOW 18 but as far as im aware there is no law against smoking under 18 and if you think that under 18s dont smoke you are very naive

At what stage have I said that under 18's don't smoke? Please read my posts before you start calling me naive.

Fully aware of the smoking ban and when it was introduced, but I still don't think the average 13 year old would have blatantly lit up in the middle of a disco or wherever.

dpofloinn

m'lady wrote: »

Oh because teens don't drink? Seriously?!

Anyway I'm not getting into a debate with you, I came on asking for advice on the legalities of this, which I have not found out yet. I'd imagine the majority of parents will see where I'm coming from anyway.

Thats fine I understand you didnt come here for a debate, you came here to validate your own opinion.

For what its worth I dont think the night club did anything wrong. They didnt sell cigarettes to the kids,they didnt sell alcohol to the kids. So I guess if you dont like it then dont let your kid attend these events in the future

Peanut Butter Jelly

Maybe I won't be welcome here as I am a teen myself (17), but my opinion on this is that:

The organisers know that whatever way they search, the teens will find some way of getting cigarettes into a disco. It's much easier to conceal that alcohol in the sense that you can put it in your socks, shoes, and a shirt pocket inside a jacket. They won't tell everyone to take off their shoes because that will lower numbers through the door. Why do they open a smoking area? It's a great place for people to go if they just want to sit down and talk. You can't really do that inside to the same extent and you get some peace from the pumping music. They're not trying to get teens to smoke, but it's better to make them do it outside instead of fumigating the place of customers.

You have to realise that there are teens out there that smoke, drink and have sex. Not every teen will, but in this day and age, you have to expect that there will be underage smokers and drinkers at a night out, and if you're in a built up area, there will be sexual encounters. Here's a fact that might startle you, there are teens, right now as you're reading this possibly, that have protective covers on their phones, but are having unprotected sex. That is what we now have to accept as "today".

Yes, there are 13 year olds out there that will light up in the middle of a disco, I've seen it myself. Not the average 13 year old, mainly boys with high egos fitting in with the "norm".

I don't think you should be worried about there been exposed alcohol, if there's nobody to serve it then that won't be a problem. Can I just ask, this lake you speak of, how far away is it from the terrace?

Yes, the minimum age you can buy tobacco at is 18. However, the kids that smoke have friends that have brothers that are 18 and over and that's how they get them. There is no law saying you have to be 18 to smoke.

I ask you not to take this and prevent your daughter from going on nights out with her friends just because there's an open smoking area or exposed alcohol, just let her know what will happen if she partakes in it.

dpofloinn

m'lady wrote: »

At what stage have I said that under 18's don't smoke? Please read my posts before you start calling me naive.

Fully aware of the smoking ban and when it was introduced, but I still don't think the average 13 year old would have blatantly lit up in the middle of a disco or wherever.

That is the very epitome of a weak argument taking bits of information out of context and completely focusing on them to enforce your argument.

You origionally said you did not remember people smoking when you attended teenage discos .I then countered by saying people regularly did back in the day because you could I never said 13 year olds did it.

Now back to your op if you know that u18s smoke then what is the issue with the smoking area? where do you think these teens should go if they are going to smoke?

freshpopcorn

Being honest with you teenagers smoke at these events with or with out a smoking area. I know when I was a teenager people smoked in toilets which would have being illegal or they smoked outside. Smoking outside was awkward for the security staff because they were trying to keep an eye on who had played/didn't pa. So the smoking area would be attractive for the business's point of view.
The outdoor area also sounds good if people just want to have a chat or just want a bit of piece for a couple of minutes.
I don't know what you can do about alcohol being on display. I suppose as long as they don't sell it. Do you have a problem with your daughter going to supermarkets? Because alcohol is always on display. Except for Good Friday.
Also have you any proof of this or are you just going on what your daughter says?

The Pheasant2

OP you say you're only interested in the legalities of their setup - the answer is that they've done nothing illegal: they weren't selling cigarettes to the kids and there's nothing illegal about smoking outside regardless of age.

They also weren't selling alcohol to the kids. Nothing illegal about having it on display - think of your local supermarket.
(In any case I think this is a silly thing to get worked up over - these kids are teenagers and are probably mature enough that the mere presence of (inaccessible) alcohol would entice them to drink. Definitely nothing sinister there on the part of the hotel anyway).

As regards the terrace, is it really that much of a hazard? Surely it's got barriers surrounding the edge and I can guarantee you that the security would be told to keep a very close eye out for anyone climbing or messing near it.

I can see where you're coming from but genuinely I wouldn't worry about it. I'm 19 myself so it's not exactly a long time ago since I attended one of these discos myself and I can assure you security and safety were always concerns they took really seriously. Thinking back I'd be a lot more concerned with what goes on in the corners and on the dancefloor if you know what I mean!

m'lady

Thanks for all your replies. Being honest I'm very surprised at nearly all of them!

Just to clarify: I am fully aware that teenagers drink and smoke, and get up to a hell of a lot more than that too. I'm also aware that they will smoke anywhere they want to.
My issue is that a club that advertise their underage event as being 'professionally supervised' will open up a smoking area, and allow them sit there and smoke?!

I do think it's encouraging them to smoke, just like the age old conversation at this stage of the smoking ban that it's outside in the smoking area in pubs where all the craic happens and the word 'smirting' was developed!

At the moment in Ireland they are actively working on bringing in plain packaging on cigs and have already stopped the display of them on shops/pubs etc. There is also talk of ot becoming illegal to smoke with children in a car.

I'm coming across as a complete anti smoker, and I'm not-I was a smoker up to last year!

I just think this issue is encouraging them to try it in a nice adult environment, where they can look/act older than they are. They have banned smoking outside hospitals (which I don't agree with) and are talking about banning outside all government buildings. Perhaps if clubs didn't do what I'm talking about it would 'nip it in the bud' so to speak, even ever so slightly?

Anyway thanks again for your replies.

Peanut Butter Jelly

m'lady wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies. Being honest I'm very surprised at nearly all of them!

Just to clarify: I am fully aware that teenagers drink and smoke, and get up to a hell of a lot more than that too. I'm also aware that they will smoke anywhere they want to.
My issue is that a club that advertise their underage event as being 'professionally supervised' will open up a smoking area, and allow them sit there and smoke?!

I do think it's encouraging them to smoke, just like the age old conversation at this stage of the smoking ban that it's outside in the smoking area in pubs where all the craic happens and the word 'smirting' was developed!

At the moment in Ireland they are actively working on bringing in plain packaging on cigs and have already stopped the display of them on shops/pubs etc. There is also talk of ot becoming illegal to smoke with children in a car.

I'm coming across as a complete anti smoker, and I'm not-I was a smoker up to last year!

I just think this issue is encouraging them to try it in a nice adult environment, where they can look/act older than they are. They have banned smoking outside hospitals (which I don't agree with) and are talking about banning outside all government buildings. Perhaps if clubs didn't do what I'm talking about it would 'nip it in the bud' so to speak, even ever so slightly?

Anyway thanks again for your replies.

If kids want to smoke, they'll smoke. If they don't, they won't. Opening up a smoking area won't affect any of that. They're not "encouraging" it at all.

And yes, the event was professionally supervised, and all they allowed them to do was sit down. The kids took it upon themselves to smoke. They can't say "Oi! Put down that cigarette! You're not 18 and you're breaking the law!" because there isn't a law against it.

freshpopcorn

A bit of advice in my opinion, if you complain about this issue and they link your daughter to you. They might refuse entry to her in the future because of the awkward parent. Who might cause trouble if anything did happen in the future. Just saying how they might view it.

AulBiddy

I'm 17 too and to be honest smoking is the least I'd be concerned about. I'm sure there's smokers where she goes to school so I wouldn't be concerned unless she comes home smelling of smoke everyday.

Any disco I went to bags were searched and drunk people were thrown out or sent home of course th odd few would get past but it was minimal

Remember she is still only 13 you should really only start worrying now if she's easily led, if not leave it till she's 14 or 15

seavill

m'lady wrote: »

I really doubt you could have lit a cigarette up in the middle of a disco aimed at under 17 years olds, at say 13 years old??

Also I could be mistaken but I think the sake of tobacco is illegal to under 18 year olds now?

I know in the local teenage disco we had (I'm 29 by the way) we didn't have a no smoking area becuase eveyone just smoked within the main hall (it was a community hall). Place was like any pub full of smoke and the smell from you when you left the place was terrible but that was even back in the day.
During the summer months they opened the back doors into a caged area you could then smoke inside or outside.

And not to cause panic but from teaching teenagers, drink on display and a smoking area are the least of your worries, believe me.

From your point of view your daugher seems very level headed that she could talk to you about it so I don't think you have any major worry there.

Also I would presume that there was security out in the area or at least at the entrance to the area. From my experience going and speaking with kids nowadays that always seems to be the case