Locks in upstairs windows legal?

Gangu

So our windows were installed yesterday. Only one of the upstairs windows has a lock in it, the others do not. Looking back through my email trail, I specified that all windows were to have locks, so I need to talk to them today about it.

Thing is, our builder said he thought that no window upstairs should have locks with keys for fire regulations purposes but he says "don't quote me on it". Can anyone help? Clearly there should either be all or none, not one anyway.

I did search the forum but couldn't find the answer here, or anywhere?

It would be good to go armed with the facts though, particularly if this is a building regulation issue. It might help make them treat me more seriously in relation to other issues, loose handles on windows and doors.... sigh.... I cannot wait until this is all over.

4Sticks

Windows which must function as alternative means of escape or rescue must not be lockable.
I have seen houses handed over to clients with ( correctly ) window handles without locks
- house is signed off
- client is given bag of handles with locks
- they fit them and
- hope the kids later don't get fried in a house fire

Gangu

4Sticks wrote: »

Windows which must function as alternative means of escape or rescue

Thanks. Are all upstairs windows this sort of window? Only one window looks over a flat roof, all others are not.

4Sticks

Each bedroom should have at least one window like this. So for example if a bedroom has two windows then technically one could be locked and the other must not be. I would leave both unlocakble personally.
An upstairs bathroom window could be lockable.

"or rescue" is important to note , implying that trapped person should be reachable by ladder access. So imagine the ladder in place in each case and don't place the fish pond there.

sydthebeat

quite simply...


no.

You should NOT have locks in windows from bedrooms.

The regs quite clearly state

lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections.

fatty pang

sydthebeat wrote: »

quite simply...


no.

You should NOT have locks in windows from bedrooms.

The regs quite clearly state

There is a difference between must and should.
Window locks are allowed on escape windows in Scotland and England&Wales. The Scottish guidance (Domestic Handbook 2013, Sect 2.9.0 & 2.9.4) is newer then ours so therefor should be considered superior.
This can be argued as an alternative method of compliance instead of prima facie TGGD compliance. A county fire officer would want to be very sure of themselves to disagree with the relavant UK government departments

sydthebeat

fatty pang wrote: »

There is a difference between must and should.
Window locks are allowed on escape windows in Scotland and England&Wales. The Scottish guidance (Domestic Handbook 2013, Sect 2.9.0 & 2.9.4) is newer then ours so therefor should be considered superior.
This can be argued as an alternative method of compliance instead of prima facie TGGD compliance. A county fire officer would want to be very sure of themselves to disagree with the relavant UK government departments

1. Just because it's newer certainly does not mean it's superior.

2. As regards to Irish regs, should means must.

3. Unless you get written confirmation as to the acceptance of an alternative to the tgd's from a BCO, then you MUST abide by the regulatIons.


There is NO grey area when it comes to the safety of your family.

kkelliher

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. Just because it's newer certainly does not mean it's superior.

2. As regards to Irish regs, should means must.

3. Unless you get written confirmation as to the acceptance of an alternative to the tgd's from a BCO, then you MUST abide by the regulatIons.


There is NO grey area when it comes to the safety of your family.

100% correct. And it has being this was for many years at this stage.

vertico

Are they fitted with child safety latches?

fatty pang

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. Just because it's newer certainly does not mean it's superior.

2. As regards to Irish regs, should means must.

3. Unless you get written confirmation as to the acceptance of an alternative to the tgd's from a BCO, then you MUST abide by the regulatIons.


There is NO grey area when it comes to the safety of your family.

1. Thats its newer is not the salient point. Both UK jurisdictions previously had similar guidance to our current guidance and as a result of evolution in fire safety principles moved to where there are now.

2. We are discussing a TGD not a Regulation. The Regulations make no reference to locks on windows.

3. "The adoption of an approach different to the TGD's is not prohibited, provided that the approach meets the requirements of the Regulations. The Building Control Authority may require such evidence in the case of an approach different from that given in the guidance to ensure that the building does comply with the regulation." DoECLG website

Its there in black and white. Nothing grey about it at all.

sydthebeat

fatty pang wrote: »

1. Thats its newer is not the salient point. Both UK jurisdictions previously had similar guidance to our current guidance and as a result of evolution in fire safety principles moved to where there are now.

2. We are discussing a TGD not a Regulation. The Regulations make no reference to locks on windows.

3. "The adoption of an approach different to the TGD's is not prohibited, provided that the approach meets the requirements of the Regulations. The Building Control Authority may require such evidence in the case of an approach different from that given in the guidance to ensure that the building does comply with the regulation." DoECLG website

Its there in black and white. Nothing grey about it at all.

What's your point?

Key locks are not allowed, end of.