Should I be sending this car back ?

pushpop

Hi there

I bought a 2005 Opel corsa three weeks ago from a dealership for what I thought was a good price. The car didn't come with a spare key and the dealer neglected to answer when I enquired about it over email after placing a deposit. I tried to haggle on price over that but the dealer just got really stroppy when I did , and I had already committed 500 quid by that stage between deposit and insurance , and the car seemed fine otherwise.

Now it turns out that it needs a timing chain replaced and there seems to be a water leakage into the driver footwell whenever it rains. The timing chain will cost a few hundred quid to fix, a spare key will cost about 150 and I don't even know about the cost of fixing the leak. Apparently water ingress is an issue with older corsas, but the car is rapidly turning into a money sink I can't really afford, and I don't expect the dealer to help me out willingly based on my previous experience , so I'm wondering what my options are here from a consumer rights point of view. The best outcome for me would be to get a refund and walk away from the situation , but I don't know if I can reasonably expect that to happen , so am hoping others might be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks

bazz26

What warranty did you get with the car? Have you approached him about these issues?

pushpop

bazz26 wrote: »

What warranty did you get with the car? Have you approached him about these issues?

The car came with three months basic engine and gearbox warranty. I haven't approached him as I only noticed the leak tonight after getting a damp smell in the car. I'm going to ring him tomorrow but as I said I don't expect to get very far with them. I had to basically threaten to call the guards on them last week after waiting two weeks for them to transfer the ownership of the car over to my name.

Its sickening because its my first car and all this drama has taken the good out of it completely.

Fuzzy Clam

pushpop wrote: »

The car came with three months basic engine and gearbox warranty. I haven't approached him as I only noticed the leak tonight after getting a damp smell in the car. I'm going to ring him tomorrow but as I said I don't expect to get very far with them.

I think the timing should be included under warranty.
I had a similar issue. No spare key and timing belt needed doing only days after I bought it.
They didn't replace the key but arranged for the belt to be done and lent me a car to keep me going.

pushpop

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I think the timing should be included under warranty.
I had a similar issue. No spare key and timing belt needed doing only days after I bought it.
They didn't replace the key but arranged for the belt to be done and lent me a car to keep me going.

Well at least you got somewhere. Who did you buy it off?

Fuzzy Clam

pushpop wrote: »

Well at least you got somewhere. Who did you buy it off?

A dealer in co Leitrim. I won't name it here. Mind you, I paid full whack for the car

Noccy_Mondy

Did you try and see where the water is getting in. Could be something simple, such as a blockage! Is the second key really necessary. We have two cars that only have one key. You could always get a non-programmed key cut at a locksmith (which would only open the doors though)

pushpop

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

Did you try and see where the water is getting in. Could be something simple, such as a blockage! Is the second key really necessary. We have two cars that only have one key. You could always get a non-programmed key cut at a locksmith (which would only open the doors though)

I had a quick look tonight but I'd say I'd need a garage to look it over. A common entry point seems to be a seal joining the brake servo to the bulkhead but I wouldn't have a notion of how to go about fixing that.

The spare key is important because , well having a spare of anything is a good thing, and the car came with one when it was originally bouhht. if the car got nicked or broken into, the insurance company may ask for it as well.

delly

I don't think you'd have any grounds for returning it tbh. You have to give the dealer time to sort the timing chain which I assume they will. Getting a second key would be good will, but they wouldn't be compelled to give it. Lastly the leak while very frustrating to have to sort, isn't covered by the warranty.

Sounds like it is an unlucky purchase from a dealer who will be hard to deal with. Get the issues sorted as best you can, but try and not let the experience ruin your enjoyment of the car.

pushpop

delly wrote: »

I don't think you'd have any grounds for returning it tbh. You have to give the dealer time to sort the timing chain which I assume they will. Getting a second key would be good will, but they wouldn't be compelled to give it. Lastly the leak while very frustrating to have to sort, isn't covered by the warranty.

Sounds like it is an unlucky purchase from a dealer who will be hard to deal with. Get the issues sorted as best you can, but try and not let the experience ruin your enjoyment of the car.

I rang the dealer today and arranged to bring it back to them on Saturday. I'm assuming they will be fixing the timing chain as they say on their website that they service all their cars pre-sale, but I've brought it to a mechanic in the mean time who says the chain needs replacing and likely only has a few weeks of life left in it. That was on the foot of me noticing myself that after about 20 minutes running time, the engine definitely doesn't sound right, sounds a lot more like a diesel than a petrol engine.

I'm not so bothered about the key, I can get that myself, but the leak is a real cause for concern. Depending on how long it's been going on for, there could be serious rust or corrosion on the underside of the car, and there is a danger that my foot could slip on a pedal while I'm driving it due to my shoes being soaking wet. On a comfort level, it doesn't make the car particularly pleasant to drive either, as there is a damp smell in the car which will only get worse over time, and the windows mist up completely, as soon as the temperature drops below 5-6c.

If I had my own way, I'd receive a refund and walk away, throw another grand on top of the refund and get something else, as I can see this turning into a litany of problems where I end up spending as much repairing the car as I did buying it to begin with. I would hope I''d have a case for arguing that the vehicle wasn't sold to me in a roadworthy condition. The whole reason I bought from a dealer rather than go the private route was that I was wanted to get a car I knew was in good condition. Something that didn't really strike me at the time but has become more relevant now, is that the car only has one mat, which was placed over the soggy footwell. That could either be a coincidence or an effort on their part to hide a problem they knew about. Either way, I'll see how I fare on Saturday.

pushpop

Hey all, thought I'd give a quick update.

I went up to the dealer on the 22nd who said he'd write me a cheque if his mechanic found a problem, and was told I would hear back about the mechanic's report on Monday (24th) afternoon, but I had to ring on Monday evening when I hadn't heard anything, to learn the car would not be seen by the mechanic until Tuesday. Tuesday came and went, didn't hear a peep. Rang on the 26th, and was told that the car was in the mechanic's but hadn't been looked at, and I would be contacted at 2pm. Again, no phone call, nothing.

I wrote up a formal letter of complaint last Wednesday evening after hearing nothing further, and had it proofed by a solicitor who suggested a couple of edits. I didn't hear back from them on Thursday so I sent it in the Thursday evening post and emailed it to them as well.

The letter outlines a detailed log of the problems I've had with the car and the dealership to date, as well as a outline of my rights as a consumer under the Sale of goods and supply of services act, how they have been violated and finished it off with a request for a refund. I also told them that if I didn't get a response from them in 10 days, I was going to get solicitors and guards involved - these are not empty threats as I have acquaintances working in both capacities who could give me a hand on this.

The dealer rang me back on Tuesday to let me know that they had, in fact, repaired the car, against my wishes and without my permission - big mistake!! He said that the leak was caused by a "blockage" and that it was "fine now." This mechanic of his apparently also said that the timing chain didn't need fixing (surprise, surprise), so they're not going to - some warranty!

To be honest, I have no doubt in my mind that the car never made it to the mechanic, as he was quite evasive about the nature of the leak, and if the problem was so easy to fix, it wouldn't have taken them 8 days to get back to me, but I entertained the idea anyway by explaining to him that I was very clear when I handed it back to them that I didn't want the car repaired and wanted a refund instead - he nodded his head when I told him that in person, and he even watched me remove all my possessions out of the car so if that wasn't clear enough for him I don't know what was. Even if I did want a repair, I'd want to choose the mechanic myself, and bill them for it so I know the job was done and done well.

I stated that it was my opinion that the car had been flood damaged, so a mechanic drilled holes in the underside of the car to drain it, and now surface water on the road is leaking back in via these holes - the dealer didn't deny this. He seemed quite unsure of his position, and I think he only realised over the phone that he's put himself in a bind if he did actually have the car repaired without my permission. He said he'd get back to me in 2 mins, but he didn't until today.


The dealer rang me today so let me know he'd consulted his solicitor and he's now basically saying he doesn't have the money to refund me due to a cashflow problem, and the "replacement" car they offered had to get work done on it, so I'd be giving them another 2 grand on top of what I've already paid, which I'm definitely not doing either. He said he can either try to sell it for me, which could take weeks or months, or just take the car back with the repair I told them I didn't want them to do. He also emphasised that the car I bought "wasn't like that" when they sold it to me, whatever that is supposed to mean.

I've consulted a solicitor who will try and help me, but they did say that these cases are notoriously difficult as the defence of having no money is very difficult to disprove. I'm going to assemble all records I have relating to the case and send it on and see what they say. I hope that somehow, I'll get this resolved.

torqtorq

I suggest you immediately take out a small claim.

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument&l=en&p=110

It is very cheap and easy.

I have had one family member and 2 family friends do this successfully having bought 2nd hand cars from dodgy dealers. A good sound mature mechanic makes a great expert witness.

These dealers are so arrogant that they will not bother with an expert witness.

pushpop

torqtorq wrote: »

I suggest you immediately take out a small claim.

http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument&l=en&p=110

It is very cheap and easy.

I have had one family member and 2 family friends do this successfully having bought 2nd hand cars from dodgy dealers. A good sound mature mechanic makes a great expert witness.

These dealers are so arrogant that they will not bother with an expert witness.

Arrogant and thick, although I guess that's to be expected when you've had to resort to being a bottom feeding dodgy car salesman to make a living. They seem genuinely surprised I'm being this persistent about it. Im going to see what my solicitor says first, the small claims court would save me the expense of a solicitor as you correctly pointed out but it will cap any winnings at 2K and there's no guarantee I'll get them anyway.

In my own opinion I think negotiating a repayment plan would be reasonable where they give me my money back over a period of time. Or I could claim against the directors themselves rather than the conpany .